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sorry, that should have read '77 semi-final of course. The so called 'greatest game of all time'.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 23/06/2021 10:40:27 2352786 Link 2 |
The best footbal is always in the future, it is as should be really, the game needs to breath, progress, innovate and evolve. we will look back in future decades at the last 20 years as not as good as 20 years time. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 23/06/2021 10:43:21 2352787 Link 6 |
I totally agree with this Mick. I remember as a kid watching the Dublin V. Kerry games of the 70s and being utterly enthralled. Yes, they were very entertaining. And I think if you looked back on the older recorded games form earlier decades you would have concluded that the brand played in the 70s was far superior. WE thought we were looking at the best players of all time. All sports evolve. The powerful serve/volley male tennis players-assisted by changes in racket spelt the end of the rally and denied us the pleasure of seeing players use a diverse range of shots: lobbies, backhands, chips etc. The serves were awesome in their power but they radically changed the dynamic of game. Look at rugby. There are no Phil Davies or Gareth Edwards now. It's all about power. You're right. It's the application of sports analytics, strength and conditioning, skill specific coaching, You need access to great resources One of the effects of all is the virtual disappearance of brilliant individualism. Graft, gym work, coaching, teamwork and higher levels of aerobic fitness have somehow negated flair, risk taking and to use Kerryboy's phrase, "off the cuff". Let's face it. GAA football is mongrel by comparison to hurling. As such it is open to influences from other sports like basketball, rugby Aussie Rules and arguably soccer. It stands to reason that the those teams with the greatest resources are going to excel in this new version of our game. WE won't have another decade like the 90s where we had. multiple winners unless the game evolves in a new surprising direction. The fact that we have had some thrilling finals in the last few years can't mask the fact that there have been some awful spectacles and my impression is the the overall health of the game as a form of entertainment has greatly disimproved. The Championship now features a lot of one sided thrashings that are terrible to watch. I think it's simplistic to blame any one team for this unfortunate fact. All teams want to win and apart from natural talent you also need resources to win. Sport is organic and it evolves dialectically. WE are looking at an interesting stage now. WE had the application of the blanket and teams have had to evolve systems and strategies to overcome that. I think the Donegal of 2012 team utilised the blanket and added a swift counterattacking style to it and it won them an All-Ireland. After 2014, the Dubs took elements of the blanket system and transcended it. I think Kerry may have learnt from that. I think it's simplistic to hold that Kerry are going back to their "original off the cuff" style. They will surely use their natural attacking flair but that will be underpinned by all that they have learnt from Dublin's success. I predict that Kerry win this year and repeat that feat. Other well resourced teams -Dublin Mayo Tyrone for example -will go back to the drawing board and evolve a winning system. I doubt that it is ever going to be possible for any team outside the top 5-6 teams will ever win an All_Ireland again as long as access to resources has such an influence on results. avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 23/06/2021 11:19:50 2352797 Link 4 |
Yes Avon the role of the special individual has dwindled but still some brilliant ballers around at the mó. After reading your post you have me thinking about Gareth Edwards try for the Barbarians v all blacks. IMO the greatest try ever. One can't blame any team for the current game as one team finds a system that works for victory and the next team perfects it and so on. You are right too about the finals masking some of the poorer games that go on. We ve been lucky with the finals but there s been many poor games too. While individualism is nt as prevalent as years gone by there is always room for those special players. Things keep evolving sometimes for the better and sometimes not but cest la vie. I also agree sadly that the chances of any team outside of the top bracket winning in the near future are very low unless the gaa help them with resources etc. So many of the lower tier teams don't even have their best players playing more s the pity.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 23/06/2021 12:04:28 2352806 Link 0 |
True and it has to be. In sport in general though they are spoilt compared to years ago. Take boxing. Years ago pro boxing 15 rounds (I'd die) less money bad training conditions. Soccer brutal pitches less money. Gaa poorer pitches and at club level cold showers in dirty dressing rooms buy your own shorts and socks and the club will supply the Jersey. Half time drinks sipping out of the same bottles. Different times and while I know older people (much older than me) used to say things like "there were no hamstrings in my time" but you know there were far less injuries in gaa or soccer then eventhough the pitches were rougher.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 23/06/2021 12:13:46 2352807 Link 0 |
Yeah I'd agree that games from years gone by almost look like different sports compared to what we see nowadays. Sports science, nutrition, data analytics, learning from other sports etc has changed the game so much in the last 20 odd years. Tactics on All Ireland Gold are very rudimentary indeed. Retaining possession wasn't nearly as important, the be all and end all was beating your man to the ball and manufacturing a score as quickly as possible. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 23/06/2021 12:14:36 2352809 Link 1 |
The game today is light years ahead in every way. Might not be as much craic off the pitch but that is a personal decision for everyone involved so I hate listening to the whinging about that as well. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 23/06/2021 12:31:58 2352819 Link 6 |
Totally agree with the opening post. ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 23/06/2021 13:04:49 2352832 Link 2 |
I'm sure football in the 70's was better than football in the 30's or 40's so comparing todays football to the 70's is a pointless exercise. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 23/06/2021 13:07:49 2352833 Link 3 |
I think it was the best game of football ever.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 23/06/2021 14:08:54 2352855 Link 5 |
We've had this discussion recently and we know where we each stand so don't want to rehash that argument. I don't think the "robotic" football is going away though. There's a reason why players are patient in terms of shot selection and are risk averse when it comes to passing. It's because it's a winning strategy. It's very simple equation that each team will have the same number of possessions (including kick outs as a possession) per half. How you win is being more efficient in scoring from your possessions. Every possession that ends with no score is a waste. The name of the game is to not waste runs of possession by shooting stupidly or conceding the ball cheaply. When the game is thought about in that way the current way of playing just makes sense and teams can't just unlearn that. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 23/06/2021 14:18:56 2352857 Link 5 |
Spot on Whammo. That's exactly the way it's gone just like basketball. Hold possession until you get a good scoring position and if you don't score it's a wasted opportunity. It makes sense though and you are correct in that it's hard to change that type of play. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 23/06/2021 15:00:56 2352872 Link 0 |
As sure as the sun rises in the East and sets in the West we will be talking about the way the game was played in the past ten years or less from now. That has always been the way and it is naive to think other wise. Or that we live in the golden era. We thought that in the 70's with Kerry and Dublin. They might catch up to the players today with a ten speed but yet it was fabulous football !!! for the time. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 23/06/2021 15:25:15 2352881 Link 1 |
You have nailed your colours to the mast of robotic football being here to stay as it's a winning strategy, that's fine I accept your point of view. I can't argue that it's not a winning strategy and if it continues to be that for the years to come I'll be the first to come back to you and say, you were right Whammo86, I got it wrong, my attack minded "off the cuff" philosophy is wrong, likewise I would hope you will do the same, if my philosophy of the how to smash the robotic football is correct. I accept teams must play to their strengths and you do need the forwards especially to pull it off, but unfortunately every county bar Dublin has to wait for a generation of players to come along. The most frustrating part for me is we have a few teams who like to rank themselves 2 to 6 or whatever, who have the talent but are not using it correctly. If you're not winning by playing defensive football, what the hell are you continuing to persist with it for ? The ironic thing about blanket defensive systems is that defenders are actually losing the art of defending. So what is very likely to happen is that when a team built on a blanket defensive system starts to adapt they will take several bad beatings in the process. Time will tell. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 23/06/2021 15:26:00 2352883 Link 0 |
I would say that on the day 2003 final was brilliant, when you watch it now it was awful .
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2014 - 23/06/2021 15:27:52 2352884 Link 4 |
the 77 semi final was and will remain the greatest game of football ever
mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1802 - 23/06/2021 15:39:08 2352887 Link 0 |
We all have the rose tinted glasses but you see a final has a full house and if there are a good few scores and it's tense we all feel it was a great game but when you look back on it even a year or two later you see mistakes bad passes and so on but the perfect game has never happened and never will. For a game to be great it has to have mistakes too as it all adds to the excitement.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 23/06/2021 16:09:52 2352890 Link 1 |
This thread is so true. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 23/06/2021 16:39:26 2352899 Link 0 |
The only positive back then was it seemed more teams had a chance of winning or at least making a final. Now, there are even fewer of these counties. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 23/06/2021 16:40:29 2352900 Link 0 |
I totally agree. The team more effective in converting their chances win the game. Like basketball there are a myriad of ways of playing this game. Full Court Press / Defence First / Fast Break; do you go zonal / man on man. For me football was best in the 90's & 00's in terms of competitiveness but in terms of skill its got nothing on today. It is a much better game now with the extra athleticism and tactical nous needed to play the game. The problem is that there aren't that many teams able to be in contention at the highest level making the top level games too predictable. Hurling though - I think the game is becoming unwatchable as a neutral spectator. To stick with the basketball analogy its the equivalent of hitting 3 pointers reliably from the half way line where the act of scoring for Team A frees up the man to take the next shot for Team B. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 285 - 23/06/2021 17:04:26 2352907 Link 1 |