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Replying To sligo joe: "I have no issues about who should or should not get a red. The bigger issue is that players look at this incident and realise it is uniquely dangerous because the players head is thrown towards the ground with very little protection. I can see how it happened and I am not vilifying Lynch but it is important that players avoid endangering other players as much as possible, not always easy in a game of speed and passion." What nobody seems to realise is that the whole sorry episode started when Rob Downey flailed down with his hurley on Lynch's clavicle. The referee should have blown up the play there and then and booked Rob. Furthermore what did O'Mahoney go and put hands around Cian's neck for- the ball was well gone. Lynch should have shown more restraint but as Horgan decided there were two of them in it.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 26/08/2021 21:00:32
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Replying To PatOLogical: "Nice to hear the Liam Dunne swing at Gary Kirby, breaking the finger of our free-taker, referred to by a non-Limerickman. Thanks. Wexford even bragged about it after. It's not something we should NOT mention in polite circles lest we offend the perpetrator. Probably played a big part in Wexford winning 96 All-Ireland ." The 2 lads pulled on a high ball. As I remember we conceded very few scorable frees in that game and Kirby scored them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11877 - 26/08/2021 21:04:51
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Well I don't mean to drag up old dirt, but Limerick complained for a whole generation about the first puck-out of the 96 All-Ireland. I went to college with lads who like me were in nappies at the time, but had been brought up on a healthy diet of anti-Wexford bitterness over it!
Apparently it cost Limerick the match.....no other reason!
'Winners are winners and losers make excuses' - a truer word was never spoken." Yes- That my mantra, even if I heard it first from Griffin- when it is it is over. Several Limerick people I know have said that decisions Ryan made that day contributed to the defeat, like not playing Mike Galligan, a lot more I assure you than blame Dunne. Although I also feel it was a disastrous decision to leave off Galligan, a man who had scored seven points from play in the '94 Munster Final, I feel as Wexford won with 14 me I never have had any complaints. Somehow I feel Wexford really never capitalised on that win as they should have. They should also have won the '93 All Ireland and National League, but lack of a decent free taker beat them on two big days.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 26/08/2021 21:12:29
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Replying To Viking66: "The 2 lads pulled on a high ball. As I remember we conceded very few scorable frees in that game and Kirby scored them." Nice spinning .... as I saw (youtube?) it like Dunne's swing landed on Kirby's hand , about 30' below the ball. And it was bragged about afterward.
PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1359 - 26/08/2021 21:40:02
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Replying To Sugary_tae: "The physical side of the game has and always will be there. Bluntly at the top level teams are either on the receiving end or dishing it out. With the exception of the 2013 final which were played by two extremely light fast teams most finals have enough players laying down the law. Same as most sports at the highest level.
Limerick as a county have certainly learned lessons over the years. In 96 we had a pretty powerful team but they wholly lost the physical battle. Carey o neill and Kirby certainly hit but that's the game. In 07 both Stephen Lucey and Seamus hickey were hit by shefflin and Brennan in identical incidents to the Seamus Flanagan incident in the Munster final. Even more galling was the wild pull by Noel hickey after he pulled his hamstring on Mike Fitzgerald. None received cards! No point in being victims I'd imagine is an ethos that is discussed amongst that group.
The other thing that happens when a young team gets success is they play a lot of games at the highest level and learn these rules of combat themselves. In the 18 final I felt Galway certainly played as the older more streetwise team. Johnny Glynn had one particularly wild swing on Richie English. He swung wildly on Richie McCarthy also who returned the compliment! Munster final in 19 saw Peter Casey (on 1-5) taken off after a shoulder to the head by Ronan Maher. Semi final in 19 saw Barry Nash hit with a head high elbow. None of these incidents saw red. Teams learn to live by the sword. Personally think Casey was unlucky to see red and that Limericks reputation played more of a role.
I've watched back the final a good few times now. The Cian lynch judo incident all comes from a wild swing from Downey in the same sequence. Clearly incensed mulcahy who saw it in full leading to his mini meltdown. TOM goes high from behind on lynch and Cian reacts. TOM gives a little poke on the ground. None are innocent but all are unhurt and the ref will n his sanity told all to cop on." Very good post. Very Accurate
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1128 - 26/08/2021 22:06:12
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Replying To Oldtourman: "What nobody seems to realise is that the whole sorry episode started when Rob Downey flailed down with his hurley on Lynch's clavicle. The referee should have blown up the play there and then and booked Rob. Furthermore what did O'Mahoney go and put hands around Cian's neck for- the ball was well gone. Lynch should have shown more restraint but as Horgan decided there were two of them in it." If a man jumped on your back and punched you round the neck what would you ?
Ide have no problem Fing him over my shoulder to the ground.
The Cork player also reacted by mounting Lynch as he was on the ground holding his neck and played punches into him. No on talking about that though
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 26/08/2021 22:13:09
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Replying To Oldtourman: "What nobody seems to realise is that the whole sorry episode started when Rob Downey flailed down with his hurley on Lynch's clavicle. The referee should have blown up the play there and then and booked Rob. Furthermore what did O'Mahoney go and put hands around Cian's neck for- the ball was well gone. Lynch should have shown more restraint but as Horgan decided there were two of them in it." I have no issues with any of the points you make. I am just hoping when players see this incident they recognise that careless actions could result in serious injury and in saying this I understand that in the heat of battle players actions are generally instinctive and reactionary and rarely if ever carry premeditation or malice,
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 684 - 26/08/2021 22:18:11
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Replying To Viking66: "The 2 lads pulled on a high ball. As I remember we conceded very few scorable frees in that game and Kirby scored them." The same aa Austin Gleeson getting yellow for pulling on a ball. It's the other way around. The free should be to the clown who puts up his hand where a guy is pulling on a ball. Self endangerment. Now there is a difference if the ball is in the hand.There is a story about Vinny Connors in a club game against Portlaw and Jackie Whelan putting out his hand to catch a ball flying by. All the Whelans great men but all had the same habit of the hand straight out with no protection. Vinny pulled and hurt Jackie's hand. The game was about over and the score out of reach. Jackie said why would you do that with nothing at stake and we are going to playing together next week for Waterford. Vinny answered if you are stupid enough to do that your not good enough to play with me.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/08/2021 01:30:53
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Replying To PatOLogical: "Nice spinning .... as I saw (youtube?) it like Dunne's swing landed on Kirby's hand , about 30' below the ball. And it was bragged about afterward." ABOUT 30" below the ball, as in Dunne's intention always appeared to connect with Kirby's hand and no the sliotar which was much higher in the air. (another case of, ah shure,it's OK like, as long as you don't talk about it.) It's time to start talking about foul play against Limerick as opposed to the attitude that Limerick should say nothing or turn the other cheek while "the Gods",(big 3) have the right to flail away at us. Limerick has now joined the ranks of the double-digit All-Irelands winners and we are nowhere near finished, as in ...New sheriff in town. "We're about the place, and we're gonna be about the place... ere..get used to it."
Enough!
PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1359 - 27/08/2021 05:07:33
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Replying To Oldtourman: "What nobody seems to realise is that the whole sorry episode started when Rob Downey flailed down with his hurley on Lynch's clavicle. The referee should have blown up the play there and then and booked Rob. Furthermore what did O'Mahoney go and put hands around Cian's neck for- the ball was well gone. Lynch should have shown more restraint but as Horgan decided there were two of them in it." Well said again, OTM.
PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1359 - 27/08/2021 05:10:08
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Replying To PatOLogical: "Nice spinning .... as I saw (youtube?) it like Dunne's swing landed on Kirby's hand , about 30' below the ball. And it was bragged about afterward." Never heard any bragging about it down here.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11877 - 27/08/2021 06:40:02
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Replying To PatOLogical: "Nice to hear the Liam Dunne swing at Gary Kirby, breaking the finger of our free-taker, referred to by a non-Limerickman. Thanks. Wexford even bragged about it after. It's not something we should NOT mention in polite circles lest we offend the perpetrator. Probably played a big part in Wexford winning 96 All-Ireland ." I'll just leave this here Pat.
https://www.hoganstand.com/county/wexford/article/index/83390
I was in nappies but I can assure you, having watched the match since, there was no shortage of wild pulls from Mike Houlihan (he broke a hurl across Larry O), Dave Clarke, and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECJewIOSj6g&ab_channel=hjmartin1
I don't know about you, but if I was under any dropping ball like that, I would not be pulling like that if I was centre forward unless you want to do somebody. You are asking for trouble because a centre back is going to pull no matter what! I can bet you 1 thing - Ciaran Carey would have pulled on that ball too, and too bloody right he would.
What played a bigger part from what I saw was Limerick's ineptitude with the spare man, and the fact that they bottled it!
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 27/08/2021 13:00:51
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I'll just leave this here Pat.
https://www.hoganstand.com/county/wexford/article/index/83390
I was in nappies but I can assure you, having watched the match since, there was no shortage of wild pulls from Mike Houlihan (he broke a hurl across Larry O), Dave Clarke, and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECJewIOSj6g&ab_channel=hjmartin1
I don't know about you, but if I was under any dropping ball like that, I would not be pulling like that if I was centre forward unless you want to do somebody. You are asking for trouble because a centre back is going to pull no matter what! I can bet you 1 thing - Ciaran Carey would have pulled on that ball too, and too bloody right he would.
What played a bigger part from what I saw was Limerick's ineptitude with the spare man, and the fact that they bottled it!" The clear fact of the matter is Limerick were awful on the day and Wexford were that bit better. No doubt Liam Dunne played over the edge but Hoola was no saint either.
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 27/08/2021 13:28:42
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Replying To Shocs07: "The clear fact of the matter is Limerick were awful on the day and Wexford were that bit better. No doubt Liam Dunne played over the edge but Hoola was no saint either." To me, that is an accurate and honest analysis.
Liam Dunne played on the edge from the matches I saw in his career, but from the matches I have seen on Eir Sport, so did everybody else back then. The play was "agricultural" to use a nice term. No insult to any farmer intended.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 27/08/2021 16:32:48
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Replying To StoreysTash: "To me, that is an accurate and honest analysis.
Liam Dunne played on the edge from the matches I saw in his career, but from the matches I have seen on Eir Sport, so did everybody else back then. The play was "agricultural" to use a nice term. No insult to any farmer intended." Every county has had players who have done mean things. I have seen Waterford players do stuff that was horrible and called it out there and then. Sometimes provocation is the cause but not an excuse. In reality I would say 90% are foul play and about 10% out and out dirty play causing injury. Again that is why there are rules and should be no ambiguity in using them.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/08/2021 20:08:29
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Replying To Sugary_tae: "The physical side of the game has and always will be there. Bluntly at the top level teams are either on the receiving end or dishing it out. With the exception of the 2013 final which were played by two extremely light fast teams most finals have enough players laying down the law. Same as most sports at the highest level.
Limerick as a county have certainly learned lessons over the years. In 96 we had a pretty powerful team but they wholly lost the physical battle. Carey o neill and Kirby certainly hit but that's the game. In 07 both Stephen Lucey and Seamus hickey were hit by shefflin and Brennan in identical incidents to the Seamus Flanagan incident in the Munster final. Even more galling was the wild pull by Noel hickey after he pulled his hamstring on Mike Fitzgerald. None received cards! No point in being victims I'd imagine is an ethos that is discussed amongst that group.
The other thing that happens when a young team gets success is they play a lot of games at the highest level and learn these rules of combat themselves. In the 18 final I felt Galway certainly played as the older more streetwise team. Johnny Glynn had one particularly wild swing on Richie English. He swung wildly on Richie McCarthy also who returned the compliment! Munster final in 19 saw Peter Casey (on 1-5) taken off after a shoulder to the head by Ronan Maher. Semi final in 19 saw Barry Nash hit with a head high elbow. None of these incidents saw red. Teams learn to live by the sword. Personally think Casey was unlucky to see red and that Limericks reputation played more of a role.
I've watched back the final a good few times now. The Cian lynch judo incident all comes from a wild swing from Downey in the same sequence. Clearly incensed mulcahy who saw it in full leading to his mini meltdown. TOM goes high from behind on lynch and Cian reacts. TOM gives a little poke on the ground. None are innocent but all are unhurt and the ref will n his sanity told all to cop on." Great post, you live and learn.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1911 - 28/08/2021 00:24:00
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Casey did his cruciate.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1496 - 28/08/2021 16:55:41
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All the best to Peter in his recovery,a long road ahead..he,ll have plenty of advice from the brother who did the same..
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2219 - 28/08/2021 17:30:53
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Replying To Claretandblue: "Casey did his cruciate." Think that's the fourth player from the team in as many years to do it. Hard at the best of times, but he was on fire at the time
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 28/08/2021 21:45:54
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Replying To Sugary_tae: "The physical side of the game has and always will be there. Bluntly at the top level teams are either on the receiving end or dishing it out. With the exception of the 2013 final which were played by two extremely light fast teams most finals have enough players laying down the law. Same as most sports at the highest level.
Limerick as a county have certainly learned lessons over the years. In 96 we had a pretty powerful team but they wholly lost the physical battle. Carey o neill and Kirby certainly hit but that's the game. In 07 both Stephen Lucey and Seamus hickey were hit by shefflin and Brennan in identical incidents to the Seamus Flanagan incident in the Munster final. Even more galling was the wild pull by Noel hickey after he pulled his hamstring on Mike Fitzgerald. None received cards! No point in being victims I'd imagine is an ethos that is discussed amongst that group.
The other thing that happens when a young team gets success is they play a lot of games at the highest level and learn these rules of combat themselves. In the 18 final I felt Galway certainly played as the older more streetwise team. Johnny Glynn had one particularly wild swing on Richie English. He swung wildly on Richie McCarthy also who returned the compliment! Munster final in 19 saw Peter Casey (on 1-5) taken off after a shoulder to the head by Ronan Maher. Semi final in 19 saw Barry Nash hit with a head high elbow. None of these incidents saw red. Teams learn to live by the sword. Personally think Casey was unlucky to see red and that Limericks reputation played more of a role.
I've watched back the final a good few times now. The Cian lynch judo incident all comes from a wild swing from Downey in the same sequence. Clearly incensed mulcahy who saw it in full leading to his mini meltdown. TOM goes high from behind on lynch and Cian reacts. TOM gives a little poke on the ground. None are innocent but all are unhurt and the ref will n his sanity told all to cop on." Yawn! Peter Casey was completely fine in 2019 and even have an interview directly after the game. I'm amazed limerick posters aren't marveling in that display and instead bringing up incidents from their own team that no one else is complaining about. Your still talking about the Munster final tackles - no one cares!
Talk about your teams tactics or wonderful scores if you know enough about hurling to discuss those.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 29/08/2021 09:14:19
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