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Replying To Tom1916: "not a chance, if the GAA go down this route I for one will leave. This populist nonsense is none of our business, why is there no 'knee' for the palestinians, why was there no 'knee' for Irish catholics being discriminated against and massacred in our own country, where does it end!!? I will never support that fai soccer team again." im sure they will be gutted
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2842 - 11/06/2021 21:45:50
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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu: "Really? Lee Chin's father had to stop going to matches long ago because he could not bear to listen to the vile racist insults and abuse that Lee was routinely subjected to from the stands. Jason Sherlock has spoken about the racist crap that he had to endure all through his career. And these are the experiences of popular, high-profile inter-county stars. Imagine what it must be like for a player of colour on a rural junior club team. I can definitely say that many people in my social circle when I was growing up in the 1980s were openly racist. I was often shocked by the hateful comments out of the blue that I heard from friends and relatives. These were people that I otherwise respected and liked. I knew their words were unacceptable at the time but I lacked the assurance and self-confidence to speak out. I definitely would not hold back now in calling out racist bigotry when I hear it. Irish society is much more diverse and open-minded now than it was in the 80s but anyone who thinks racism has disappeared is deluded. Taking a knee is a minor gesture of solidarity and anyone ranting on about connections to Antifa and Marxism is spending way too much time on alt-right social media. People who claim to be anti-racist should walk the walk in their daily lives by calling out racism when they see it and supporting racialized people in their communities - ask them about their experiences and try listening with an open mind." Well I remember a few Galway players who took savage stick also while playing it must have been hard for their familys the abuse was terrible and these people were not in minority groups. Refs get untold abuse also so I think the current give respect get respect is the way to go, that way we include everyone and not just one section of society. I stand by my statement we are not a racist country we are very welcoming, you would swear by your post that every Irish person is racist! Which is false When on a gaa field everyone is liable to get a bit of stick it doesn't make it right but it happens to everyone.
ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 11/06/2021 22:33:06
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It was mentioned above that a solution might be to bring on an anti racism banner. And have the players get their pictures taken with it.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 11/06/2021 23:21:56
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Totally agree.... The GAA has a terrible habit of following other sports while at the same time diluting all that is good in our game... It's a wonder the gobshites at the top didn't impose something like "taking the knee" at Congress to go with the stupid ban on 2 captains been allowed to lift a cup after winning a final... bonkers stuff... As Midelton simply says " include everyone ".... no need for this silly taking of the knee..." The problem is summed up in your statement, who has two captains? Captain and vice captain. Winning captain lifts cup. That's what's wrong, pussyfooting around people, changing rules, being seen to do this and doing that. Gestures just to help people feel important.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2012 - 12/06/2021 01:15:30
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Replying To Tom1916: "not a chance, if the GAA go down this route I for one will leave. This populist nonsense is none of our business, why is there no 'knee' for the palestinians, why was there no 'knee' for Irish catholics being discriminated against and massacred in our own country, where does it end!!? I will never support that fai soccer team again." Oh Jaysus Tom, don't leave! Sure we'd have no association at all without you. Aren't you the backbone of the whole thing?
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1910 - 12/06/2021 05:15:30
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Given our history I will always side with the oppressed, unfortunately BLM are a farce, founded by billionaires and passed of as representing a force for positive change, 64 people shot in Chicago last weekend (not a misprint and sadly not untypical), just about all black people shot by other black people.
Approx 8500 black people murdered in the US last year under the same circumstances. No outrage or protests from BLM about this ongoing carnage, no mention in the controlled Irish press as it does not fit the agenda of their moneyed masters.
Its a complete farce and scam, they do not care. Taking the knee is a sick joke.
GAAK (Derry) - Posts: 14 - 12/06/2021 06:43:36
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "im sure they will be gutted" Its the likes of you that is wrong with our association and our country. So what gesture do Irish catholics and palestinians get before a match?
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 12/06/2021 07:33:45
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Being against racism is populist? How is it none of our business when players have experienced racism on our GAA pitches? Honestly, if that's how you feel with a gesture, it says more about you than anything else. Away with you so if you want to leave a sport due to something like that, I'd rather you not be associated with the sport" You know what they say about people who feel the need to jump up and down and shout 'look at me i'm not a racist'
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 12/06/2021 07:35:35
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "im sure they will be gutted" I like Soccer and for that reason alone have never followed any Irish soccer team in the first place. More seriously, none of those partitionist teams represent me, apart from McClean who is sound.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/06/2021 08:13:12
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Replying To ecad123: "Well I remember a few Galway players who took savage stick also while playing it must have been hard for their familys the abuse was terrible and these people were not in minority groups. Refs get untold abuse also so I think the current give respect get respect is the way to go, that way we include everyone and not just one section of society. I stand by my statement we are not a racist country we are very welcoming, you would swear by your post that every Irish person is racist! Which is false When on a gaa field everyone is liable to get a bit of stick it doesn't make it right but it happens to everyone." Exactly. Trash talking is always vile. Anything personal to you, from your girlfriend's morality to your appearance, will be attacked, to get under your skin. Skin colour is an obvious way to rile a talented black or Asian player. It's despicable, but let's not overstate the racism - it's primarily about saying rubbish to knock you off your game. Doesn't make it right or anything less than despicable, but it isn't primarily motivated by racism. In the same way that the trash talker doesn't seriously believe that your girlfriend is a lady of easy virtue, etc.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/06/2021 08:19:26
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Compare and contrast:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/sinn-fein-mp-palestine-flag-390630
I think banning all political statements and flags at grounds is a sensible idea. Otherwise, the GAA then will find itself banning some political gestures but not others.
Who gets to decide what's allowed?
Once you cede the principle that some political protest gestures or flags are allowed, then you must allow all political gestures, or your then nothing but an inconsistent, biased hypocrite, affording protest privileges to some but not to all.
Could a player now for instance wear an antI Brexit t shirt at half time? Or a pro Brexit t shirt? Or a t shirt saying "Troops Out"? What about a sincere atheist with one saying that all churches should be banned? Or a traditional family group saying that married women should be sacked? Or somebody supporting Israel? Or Palestine? Anti nuclear protests? Vegan animals rights anti farming protests? Campaigns for higher corporate taxation? Legalise drugs protests? Feminist campaigns to "dismantle the patriarchy" and end tax advantages for married people? That D4 "reform" crowd who want Ireland to join the Commonwealth?
Once you allow any political gestures, you're immediately being discriminatory if you try to ban others. You then have no principled basis for banning any viewpoint (provided the viewpoint is not intrinsically criminal), and the GAA is then in the no-win position of deciding which political viewpoints it likes and which it doesn't.
And then sport just becomes another forum for division.
We have political parties and street demos and online political media. Take your politics to those places and keep the sectoral politics out of it.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/06/2021 08:47:12
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And the issue with BLM is that it is seeking to present itself as the main forum for racial equality for black people. This is like saying that if you believe in the union with England, you must only vote DUP. Or if you believe in a united Ireland, you must vote SF. Or if you believe in equality between men and women, you must support metoo.
Problem is that many people who are pro equal rights for black people or for women do not wish to support specific groups such as metoo or BLM. Plenty of Unionists for instance don't even vote, and lots of committed and sincere Unionists wouldn't touch the DUP with a barge pole.
I personally hate racism with a passion and always have. I'd pay money to a programme of GAA minority outreach and anti racism awareness in schools. It does my heart good, and makes me very proud, to see young black and Asian people playing Gaelic games.
But for reasons note above and in previous post, I'm very sceptical about trendy gestures such as taking the knee, wearing poppies etc.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/06/2021 09:11:52
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Replying To ecad123: "Well I remember a few Galway players who took savage stick also while playing it must have been hard for their familys the abuse was terrible and these people were not in minority groups. Refs get untold abuse also so I think the current give respect get respect is the way to go, that way we include everyone and not just one section of society. I stand by my statement we are not a racist country we are very welcoming, you would swear by your post that every Irish person is racist! Which is false When on a gaa field everyone is liable to get a bit of stick it doesn't make it right but it happens to everyone." I'd have to agree 100% with Gaillimh_Abu, he's been honest and truthful. How you would swear by his post that every Irish person is racist is beyond me.
For you to say "I stand by my statement we are not a racist country" is utter rubbish, as if you are entitled to speak on everyone's behalf.
Some of the biggest racists I've ever met have been Irish, I've fired many for racist comments they made about or to colleagues, without an ounce of regret.
There are racists everywhere, and Ireland has no shortage of them.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 12/06/2021 09:58:07
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Replying To essmac: "Compare and contrast:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/sinn-fein-mp-palestine-flag-390630
I think banning all political statements and flags at grounds is a sensible idea. Otherwise, the GAA then will find itself banning some political gestures but not others.
Who gets to decide what's allowed?
Once you cede the principle that some political protest gestures or flags are allowed, then you must allow all political gestures, or your then nothing but an inconsistent, biased hypocrite, affording protest privileges to some but not to all.
Could a player now for instance wear an antI Brexit t shirt at half time? Or a pro Brexit t shirt? Or a t shirt saying "Troops Out"? What about a sincere atheist with one saying that all churches should be banned? Or a traditional family group saying that married women should be sacked? Or somebody supporting Israel? Or Palestine? Anti nuclear protests? Vegan animals rights anti farming protests? Campaigns for higher corporate taxation? Legalise drugs protests? Feminist campaigns to "dismantle the patriarchy" and end tax advantages for married people? That D4 "reform" crowd who want Ireland to join the Commonwealth?
Once you allow any political gestures, you're immediately being discriminatory if you try to ban others. You then have no principled basis for banning any viewpoint (provided the viewpoint is not intrinsically criminal), and the GAA is then in the no-win position of deciding which political viewpoints it likes and which it doesn't.
And then sport just becomes another forum for division.
We have political parties and street demos and online political media. Take your politics to those places and keep the sectoral politics out of it." Excellent post..
skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1062 - 12/06/2021 09:58:15
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Replying To GAAK: "Given our history I will always side with the oppressed, unfortunately BLM are a farce, founded by billionaires and passed of as representing a force for positive change, 64 people shot in Chicago last weekend (not a misprint and sadly not untypical), just about all black people shot by other black people.
Approx 8500 black people murdered in the US last year under the same circumstances. No outrage or protests from BLM about this ongoing carnage, no mention in the controlled Irish press as it does not fit the agenda of their moneyed masters.
Its a complete farce and scam, they do not care. Taking the knee is a sick joke." You hit the nail on the head, while racism is a big problem in the USA, the liberals in the USA refuse to believe they are cultural and social problems within the minority communities and those who try to address these problems are immediately labelled racists. These problems have to be addressed too if solutions are to be found. Also Americas gun control comes into this too.
DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 12/06/2021 10:24:32
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Replying To essmac: "And the issue with BLM is that it is seeking to present itself as the main forum for racial equality for black people. This is like saying that if you believe in the union with England, you must only vote DUP. Or if you believe in a united Ireland, you must vote SF. Or if you believe in equality between men and women, you must support metoo.
Problem is that many people who are pro equal rights for black people or for women do not wish to support specific groups such as metoo or BLM. Plenty of Unionists for instance don't even vote, and lots of committed and sincere Unionists wouldn't touch the DUP with a barge pole.
I personally hate racism with a passion and always have. I'd pay money to a programme of GAA minority outreach and anti racism awareness in schools. It does my heart good, and makes me very proud, to see young black and Asian people playing Gaelic games.
But for reasons note above and in previous post, I'm very sceptical about trendy gestures such as taking the knee, wearing poppies etc." I'm not sure how effective it is or whether it would work in the GAA. I think doing it in empty stadiums diluted the impact. The reaction now by fans in England and elsewhere is the point to these kinds of gestures. The reaction against highlights the work we need to do. It sparks conversation around race.
Disappointed but not surprised by the people here who have clearly drank the right wing Kool-Aid.
Taking a knee was started by an NFL player. BLM uses it, but the gesture doesn't belong to them in any shape or form. Soccer players are taking the knee to highlight racism and racial inequality, I haven't heard any of them endorsing anything tangentially linked to BLM.
Being against racism is not and should not be seen as political. People need to educate themselves properly on these issues. There are no shortage of statistics that show how stark it is. In the US, income inequality levels for blacks is the same as it was in the 1960s, a black masters graduate is still on average likely to earn less than a white high school graduate. Black people are overwhelmingly targeted by police and discriminatory laws, police checks of white drivers are more likely to find drugs.
Someone also mentioned about statues being torn down. This is a typical red herring used by the right wing. There was only one statue torn down in the UK and it was a long running issue. That hasn't stopped the Tories and right wing media from writing constantly about the threat. Now someone who defaces a statue can face longer jail time than a rapist in the UK. Makes sense, no?
Ireland is a racist country, that doesn't mean everyone is racist. It means we have work to do and we shouldn't try to shrink from that. Immigrants report experiencing discrimination in the South much more than other EU countries. Thankfully we don't have a media that perpetuates racism on the same level as elsewhere. But, issues with racism in Ireland is well documented and look at any comment section online you will find it very easily, and as someone else pointed out, we will all have heard racist remarks of varying degrees by friends, colleagues and families.
The GAA has a lot of work to do. Having played rugby and GAA in Ireland, there were far, far more players of different skin colours playing rugby, but I only ever remember experiencing very outright racism in GAA circles. The GAA needs to modernise and think more clearly what it stands for and its purpose. There's a lot of work to do to make it more inclusive and not just attractive to the typical GAA head.
HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 12/06/2021 11:05:11
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Replying To essmac: "And the issue with BLM is that it is seeking to present itself as the main forum for racial equality for black people. This is like saying that if you believe in the union with England, you must only vote DUP. Or if you believe in a united Ireland, you must vote SF. Or if you believe in equality between men and women, you must support metoo.
Problem is that many people who are pro equal rights for black people or for women do not wish to support specific groups such as metoo or BLM. Plenty of Unionists for instance don't even vote, and lots of committed and sincere Unionists wouldn't touch the DUP with a barge pole.
I personally hate racism with a passion and always have. I'd pay money to a programme of GAA minority outreach and anti racism awareness in schools. It does my heart good, and makes me very proud, to see young black and Asian people playing Gaelic games.
But for reasons note above and in previous post, I'm very sceptical about trendy gestures such as taking the knee, wearing poppies etc." I think I agree with almost all you say. However to equate 'taking the knee' is a fly by night phenomenon. Wearing a poppy to commemorate men who fought for freedom.. its a stretch even for an Ulster poster to put the 2 of them together.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 12/06/2021 11:28:24
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Replying To essmac: "Compare and contrast:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/sinn-fein-mp-palestine-flag-390630
I think banning all political statements and flags at grounds is a sensible idea. Otherwise, the GAA then will find itself banning some political gestures but not others.
Who gets to decide what's allowed?
Once you cede the principle that some political protest gestures or flags are allowed, then you must allow all political gestures, or your then nothing but an inconsistent, biased hypocrite, affording protest privileges to some but not to all.
Could a player now for instance wear an antI Brexit t shirt at half time? Or a pro Brexit t shirt? Or a t shirt saying "Troops Out"? What about a sincere atheist with one saying that all churches should be banned? Or a traditional family group saying that married women should be sacked? Or somebody supporting Israel? Or Palestine? Anti nuclear protests? Vegan animals rights anti farming protests? Campaigns for higher corporate taxation? Legalise drugs protests? Feminist campaigns to "dismantle the patriarchy" and end tax advantages for married people? That D4 "reform" crowd who want Ireland to join the Commonwealth?
Once you allow any political gestures, you're immediately being discriminatory if you try to ban others. You then have no principled basis for banning any viewpoint (provided the viewpoint is not intrinsically criminal), and the GAA is then in the no-win position of deciding which political viewpoints it likes and which it doesn't.
And then sport just becomes another forum for division.
We have political parties and street demos and online political media. Take your politics to those places and keep the sectoral politics out of it." Very well said. The games are free of political and social issues on the field of play. It is important that they are kept that way. David Gough understandably wanted to make a gesture in support of Gay Pride a couple of years back when he was refereeing a game. He was instructed that such a gesture was inappropriate. This was not done due to of a lack of inclusivity. It was done to keep the games free of political and social issues on the field of play. That is an important principal. Let the games be about sport and sport alone.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 12/06/2021 11:32:02
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Being against racism is populist? How is it none of our business when players have experienced racism on our GAA pitches? Honestly, if that's how you feel with a gesture, it says more about you than anything else. Away with you so if you want to leave a sport due to something like that, I'd rather you not be associated with the sport" Have to agree with you.
While I'm against bringing political views into sport, I've seen first hand the abuse that some players get cause of their skin colour or where their parents are from. So it's not really political. It's common decency.
And those who don't agree with it or call it trendy are actually enabling those racist comments. That's all I'll say on that.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/06/2021 12:06:46
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Believe what you will, but if your stance is that you'll leave the organisation or never attend a game again if they started making anti-racism gestures before a game, you'd ought to take a long hard look at yourself." Exactly
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/06/2021 12:15:13
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