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Replying To Oldtourman: "Yes indeed. Cork and Kilkenny, the two mighty aristocrats of hurling, the combination many neutrals on here want to see in every AIF, scored a total of twenty five points between them in the goalless 1999 Final." Watched it Oldtourman. Far from exciting fare......
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 01/06/2021 20:09:07
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Yes indeed. Cork and Kilkenny, the two mighty aristocrats of hurling, the combination many neutrals on here want to see in every AIF, scored a total of twenty five points between them in the goalless 1999 Final." I was at that game and it was the most miserable wet day you could get, you wouldn't put a dog out in it. They done well to get 25 scores that day.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 01/06/2021 20:34:30
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Replying To Canuck: "Viking66 I agree up to a point. It is pointless comparing games and players of the past with the future. The game has evolved and players have evolved. However were you more entertained from those games ? The rules need to help that evolution in a safe entertaining way. I would question maybe safer now without statics. Were there the same number of cruciate knee injuries, hamstrings and grabbing around the neck ? Of course there were others like you said but more dangerous, more injuries then ? Aerial play catching or hitting the ball is a skill not a dangerous play and yes helmets were a good protection to avoid head injuries. I see where this is going though. Remove anything including tackles that might result in injury. This in a supposedly a contact sport. Take up ludo, it is dead safe.
In my humble opinion these many uncontested 30 points a game like golf strokes are no improvement. A point from the goalie to an unmarked or drawn player. A point every two minute plus plus puck out time, side line balls and other stoppages tells me me there is significantly less play. Throw in the stale mate in rucks on top of that.
Maybe the game as played today is what the majority want to see and I respect that opinion. I will not be comparing past and present because there are way two many different variables but will call out what I see is taking from the game today." But were helmets that much of a protection. D.J. Carey did not think so. He said because he wore a helmet he got sevevral belts of hurleys to the head. His clubmate Charlie Carter never wore a helmet and according to DJ nobody hit Charlie across the head.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 01/06/2021 20:45:16
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Yes indeed. Cork and Kilkenny, the two mighty aristocrats of hurling, the combination many neutrals on here want to see in every AIF, scored a total of twenty five points between them in the goalless 1999 Final." I agree with you on the quality being of a poor standard on many occasions back then and 1999 was a fairly damp squib, but I've never met a neutral who wanted Cork and Kilkenny to be in the All-Ireland final. In fact I've never heard anyone want any one of those counties in a final, apart from their own supporters. Waterford are generally the neutral's favourite and definitely the county I'd like to see win one apart from Galway.
It's been Limerick, Wexford, Clare and Offaly at various stages too, but never Cork or Kilkenny.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2042 - 01/06/2021 21:40:28
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Replying To Viking66: "Minimal contact like pulling a fellas arm or shirt shouldn't be a foul at all. Problem solved." Get real. Talk about an Irish soloution to a problem. At what point does it become a foul to pull a players jersey. When his shirt comes off his back? Ridiculous talk,
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 01/06/2021 21:51:24
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Replying To Oldtourman: "But were helmets that much of a protection. D.J. Carey did not think so. He said because he wore a helmet he got sevevral belts of hurleys to the head. His clubmate Charlie Carter never wore a helmet and according to DJ nobody hit Charlie across the head." Oldtourman I know of one player who would have been dead only for a helmet. Actually it is two I forgot. One was in hospital for other reasons and it was discovered a problem with skull bone density. Not sure of the medical term. The other was EoIn Murphy in a club game where it was touch and go but for the helmet would be dead. So many like Charlie might have been playing Russian roulette over the years. I will agree that swiped close to the head increased because of the assumption the helmet was there.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 01/06/2021 22:19:25
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Replying To ZUL10: "Get real. Talk about an Irish soloution to a problem. At what point does it become a foul to pull a players jersey. When his shirt comes off his back? Ridiculous talk," Ya that seems like a great plan. Let a player have his head ripped off with the free hand around his neck but blow him up if he hits with a good solid shoulder. It would look great a guy bearing down on goal with some one in tow and no call. Whoa ! we are off down the road to crazy now.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 01/06/2021 22:25:42
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Replying To ZUL10: "Get real. Talk about an Irish soloution to a problem. At what point does it become a foul to pull a players jersey. When his shirt comes off his back? Ridiculous talk," Would sort out the diving is all. And make the game less of a freetaking exercise.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 01/06/2021 22:30:21
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Replying To Oldtourman: "But were helmets that much of a protection. D.J. Carey did not think so. He said because he wore a helmet he got sevevral belts of hurleys to the head. His clubmate Charlie Carter never wore a helmet and according to DJ nobody hit Charlie across the head." I remember reading that he got over 200 in his head over his career, he was the most marked player
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 01/06/2021 23:26:12
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Replying To Viking66: "Minimal contact like pulling a fellas arm or shirt shouldn't be a foul at all. Problem solved." Jesus wept!
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 01/06/2021 23:38:02
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Replying To ZUL10: "Are you saying Kilkenny looked for the 15 fouls that TJ scored on Sunday. From what I saw as a neutral every time the wexford defender was rounded by his man he fouled him by pulling his arm or his hurley. There is no denying it and its not hurling. Richie Power is right but Im afraid he is a another ' let it flow' merchant and thinks the refs need to throw away the whistle. We wouldnt be having this discussion if the refs had tacked this fouling issue years earlier and It is now at crisis point." Don't pretend to be a neutral....we all know Clare people are far from neutral re Wexford. But anyway, we'll leave you to sort out your own problems down there.
There is no doubt in my mind that forwards in every club and county are leaning in to the opponent, leaving their arm or hurl around the defender, theatrically falling to the ground and pretending they are fouled. Not every time, but not every one that is given is a free either.
This is not just a Wexford issue, it is a national issue. Not every free that is blown is a free.
(P.S. I did not see the game on Sunday).
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 02/06/2021 09:23:58
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Replying To Bon: "I was at that game and it was the most miserable wet day you could get, you wouldn't put a dog out in it. They done well to get 25 scores that day." Was it any more miserable than the November day Tipp and Limerick played in Cork last year- it certainly was not- and those two teams scored 3.23 and 2.17 respectively- a total of 45 scores, with five goals included and I might say a perfectly legitimate LK goal for 'a thrown pass' disallowed that on play back was shown to be perfectly legal.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 02/06/2021 09:26:11
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Replying To Canuck: "Ya that seems like a great plan. Let a player have his head ripped off with the free hand around his neck but blow him up if he hits with a good solid shoulder. It would look great a guy bearing down on goal with some one in tow and no call. Whoa ! we are off down the road to crazy now." Well only last week on another thread (or maybe this one) you were proposing that players be allowed to shoulder into the chest and it not be a free....
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 02/06/2021 09:26:13
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Replying To Viking66: "Would sort out the diving is all. And make the game less of a freetaking exercise." Jesus wept for the second time.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 02/06/2021 10:50:56
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The biggest problem with hurling at the moment is the negative tactics and teams play so deep they are allowing the opposition free shots from distant. Any county player worth his salt will score from midfield and up, and the better ones can score further back. If more teams pushed up on puck outs it would stop a lot of the tippy tappy hand passing up the field. Its awful to watch. So little contact.
The frees issue is a problem, but I think come championship the game will flow better.
Coaches like Fitzy, McGrath, Donal Og, etc I think have totally overdone it on the sweeper, short passing and defensive stuff. It cost Wexford an All Ireland in 2019 in my opinion. A man up, yet they retreated back the field.
Clare in 2013 were playing with the hand break on until Kinnerk got his way and they hurled freely and won the All Ireland. The following 3 years they go back to a sweeper and do f all. It wasnt until new mgmt in 17 and 18 that they came anywhere near what they could produce.
Waterford the same, they got close but when it came to it in 16 semi v KK and 17 final v Galway they were too rigid and stuck to their sweeper style. Opportunities lost for both. Clare should build a statue for Kinnerk otherwise they would have the same regrets..
Those 3 counties have excellent forwards and lads who can win their own ball and score yet they starved a lot with no possession ( Clare to be fair play it long at times but still very rigid). Play to your strengths, not be cautious all the time. The sweeper was invented to stop goals, but now point scoring is gone through the roof. Over 50 scores a game in a 70 minute game, with little or no passages of play. Its woeful.
In my opinion, John Mullane in the Indo is right, the All Ireland will come from Limerick, Galway and Tipp. They can play it short but they also can go long and wont be wedded to the cautious stuff some suffer. Waterford are an outside bet. You can forget about the rest.
Flakeaway (Tipperary) - Posts: 14 - 02/06/2021 11:27:36
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Replying To Viking66: "Minimal contact like pulling a fellas arm or shirt shouldn't be a foul at all. Problem solved." or just do away with having a referee
Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 02/06/2021 11:40:23
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Replying To Canuck: "Ya that seems like a great plan. Let a player have his head ripped off with the free hand around his neck but blow him up if he hits with a good solid shoulder. It would look great a guy bearing down on goal with some one in tow and no call. Whoa ! we are off down the road to crazy now." Head neck chest automatic red card. Try reading whole posts Canuck
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 02/06/2021 12:55:28
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Replying To ZUL10: "Jesus wept for the second time." If someone rugby tackles someone to the ground with both arms fair enough. Or stops a goalscoring chance hanging out of a player by shirt or arm. Thats why the sin bin was introduced and I'm all for that rule change. But if you are a 14 stone solid built hurler and someone grabs your shirt or arm for a split second or even a whole second you should be sent off for simulation if you fall over. You can Jesus wept all you like but minimal contact shouldn't be a free and because it is thats why we have players throwing their arm back to draw a free or throwing themselves to the floor like they've been shot if someone touches their shirt. Its pathetic to look at. It creates stop start games which turn into freetaking exhibitions. All the things that nearly everybody on this thread is giving out about. Nip it in the bud. Allow minimal contact that lasts less than a second or 2. The game will be a better spectacle. And if the big man upstairs weeps we should all be used enough to the rain at this stage.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 02/06/2021 13:05:38
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Replying To Flakeaway: "The biggest problem with hurling at the moment is the negative tactics and teams play so deep they are allowing the opposition free shots from distant. Any county player worth his salt will score from midfield and up, and the better ones can score further back. If more teams pushed up on puck outs it would stop a lot of the tippy tappy hand passing up the field. Its awful to watch. So little contact.
The frees issue is a problem, but I think come championship the game will flow better.
Coaches like Fitzy, McGrath, Donal Og, etc I think have totally overdone it on the sweeper, short passing and defensive stuff. It cost Wexford an All Ireland in 2019 in my opinion. A man up, yet they retreated back the field.
Clare in 2013 were playing with the hand break on until Kinnerk got his way and they hurled freely and won the All Ireland. The following 3 years they go back to a sweeper and do f all. It wasnt until new mgmt in 17 and 18 that they came anywhere near what they could produce.
Waterford the same, they got close but when it came to it in 16 semi v KK and 17 final v Galway they were too rigid and stuck to their sweeper style. Opportunities lost for both. Clare should build a statue for Kinnerk otherwise they would have the same regrets..
Those 3 counties have excellent forwards and lads who can win their own ball and score yet they starved a lot with no possession ( Clare to be fair play it long at times but still very rigid). Play to your strengths, not be cautious all the time. The sweeper was invented to stop goals, but now point scoring is gone through the roof. Over 50 scores a game in a 70 minute game, with little or no passages of play. Its woeful.
In my opinion, John Mullane in the Indo is right, the All Ireland will come from Limerick, Galway and Tipp. They can play it short but they also can go long and wont be wedded to the cautious stuff some suffer. Waterford are an outside bet. You can forget about the rest." "the All Ireland will come from Limerick, Galway and Tipp. They can play it short but they also can go long and wont be wedded to the cautious stuff some suffer. Waterford are an outside bet. You can forget about the rest."
Forget about Kilkenny and Cork?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 02/06/2021 13:13:16
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Replying To Flakeaway: "The biggest problem with hurling at the moment is the negative tactics and teams play so deep they are allowing the opposition free shots from distant. Any county player worth his salt will score from midfield and up, and the better ones can score further back. If more teams pushed up on puck outs it would stop a lot of the tippy tappy hand passing up the field. Its awful to watch. So little contact.
The frees issue is a problem, but I think come championship the game will flow better.
Coaches like Fitzy, McGrath, Donal Og, etc I think have totally overdone it on the sweeper, short passing and defensive stuff. It cost Wexford an All Ireland in 2019 in my opinion. A man up, yet they retreated back the field.
Clare in 2013 were playing with the hand break on until Kinnerk got his way and they hurled freely and won the All Ireland. The following 3 years they go back to a sweeper and do f all. It wasnt until new mgmt in 17 and 18 that they came anywhere near what they could produce.
Waterford the same, they got close but when it came to it in 16 semi v KK and 17 final v Galway they were too rigid and stuck to their sweeper style. Opportunities lost for both. Clare should build a statue for Kinnerk otherwise they would have the same regrets..
Those 3 counties have excellent forwards and lads who can win their own ball and score yet they starved a lot with no possession ( Clare to be fair play it long at times but still very rigid). Play to your strengths, not be cautious all the time. The sweeper was invented to stop goals, but now point scoring is gone through the roof. Over 50 scores a game in a 70 minute game, with little or no passages of play. Its woeful.
In my opinion, John Mullane in the Indo is right, the All Ireland will come from Limerick, Galway and Tipp. They can play it short but they also can go long and wont be wedded to the cautious stuff some suffer. Waterford are an outside bet. You can forget about the rest." Quite the opposite in 2019. When we went a man up we put the extra man up the pitch and started launching long ball forwards. Your Mahers cleaned up. And played the ball up to the likes of Jake Dillon and the rest of your forwards who had acres of space to pick off their points as our lads were too far up the pitch and too tired to track back on account of the small first team squad meaning we didnt have lads on the bench with enough big game experience. Limerick often drop 3 men back never mind one and Galway have played with a spare man at the back since 2016. Even Tipp and Kilkenny havent left 3 men inside the last couple of years. The game has evolved. Noone has won an all Ireland playing largely man on man since Tipp in 2016.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 02/06/2021 13:13:22
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