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It is disingenuous to suggest that an amateur soccer player and in some instances teams posed less risk than a GAA player. If it was a scientific analysis it's flawed and if not it is some or all of the other things I mentioned. Stop the nonsense about protecting their jobs. Lots of people lost jobs and in this case the amateur soccer players were in the work place anyway. Also one of the argument's put up was numbers so let give an example of how flawed that is. I do consultancy for a company who took the greatest precautions to keep the virus out. Workers were temp checked outside the building before entering for their shift. Every three day had a full covid test. Shifts were cut to 7 hours so the one on would be gone home before the other came in. Extra changing rooms were set up to keep workers a part. Extra eating areas were introduced for breaks. No working clothing left the premises. The hour between shifts was used for a sanitation crew to wipe down lockers and touch points. Then one worker got covid. The whole day shift got infected. The company sent the whole shift home and told them they would be paid. Incidently the workers already had been given a pay rise to compensate them for their life disruptions. However there was some minimum contact with the other shifts and infection spread. The chains and locks were put on the gates. So no one is going to sell to me that the behaviour of one sport is more or less a bigger risk that the other based on numbers. There has been some terrible bad behaviours but also ridiculous stupid regulations. An example. A friend of mine had to travel for what was deemed essential. In the airport at the check in an official took a strip out of him for getting little too close to the person in front. When he got on the plane that person was sitting in his lap. History will show some of the nonsense and b.s. that was implemented. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3034 - 01/05/2021 14:29:39 2339600 Link
Replying To GAAK: "I think you are missing the forest through the trees. What is the GAA ? My opinion, it is a huge part of Irish culture. I see it as an assault on Irish culture" COVID doesn't distinguish between cultures. There has been no assault on Irish culture. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7944 - 01/05/2021 15:00:00 2339604 Link
Replying To Canuck: "It is disingenuous to suggest that an amateur soccer player and in some instances teams posed less risk than a GAA player. If it was a scientific analysis it's flawed and if not it is some or all of the other things I mentioned. Stop the nonsense about protecting their jobs. Lots of people lost jobs and in this case the amateur soccer players were in the work place anyway. Also one of the argument's put up was numbers so let give an example of how flawed that is. I do consultancy for a company who took the greatest precautions to keep the virus out. Workers were temp checked outside the building before entering for their shift. Every three day had a full covid test. Shifts were cut to 7 hours so the one on would be gone home before the other came in. Extra changing rooms were set up to keep workers a part. Extra eating areas were introduced for breaks. No working clothing left the premises. The hour between shifts was used for a sanitation crew to wipe down lockers and touch points. Then one worker got covid. The whole day shift got infected. The company sent the whole shift home and told them they would be paid. Incidently the workers already had been given a pay rise to compensate them for their life disruptions. However there was some minimum contact with the other shifts and infection spread. The chains and locks were put on the gates. So no one is going to sell to me that the behaviour of one sport is more or less a bigger risk that the other based on numbers. There has been some terrible bad behaviours but also ridiculous stupid regulations. An example. A friend of mine had to travel for what was deemed essential. In the airport at the check in an official took a strip out of him for getting little too close to the person in front. When he got on the plane that person was sitting in his lap. History will show some of the nonsense and b.s. that was implemented." But brining back elite soccer is less of a risk than elite Gaelic Games. Only 29 squads out and about as opposed to well over a 100 squads out and about. One is less risky than the other. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 01/05/2021 16:23:27 2339610 Link
Replying To KillingFields: " Replying To Canuck: "[quote=KillingFields: "Amen !!! Amen !!! I have said that over and over. Hypocrisy of the highest. You won't get much support on here for that view point and will be accused of not being in support of covid measures. Our national sports were discriminated against with complete flawed reasoning. The GAA coward and let down their members that will have a lasting effect. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1182 - 30/04/2021 17:57:56 Ridiculous to use phrases such as discriminatory? Care to expand on how it is? GAA isnt cowardly at all." How many times does it have to be repeated. Amateur soccer players posed the same risk to in spreading the virus as GAA players. Just because there are less of them is a bad excuse. So a flawed selective restriction that was discriminating against hurling and football. The GAA should have objected to this in the strongest manner but cow tied instead. I have the greatest respect for the GAA but not on this issue. You have nailed your opinion to the mast long before now and I and many others have our opinion." Many players were not amateur though and most are semi pro's and getting something in return for playing or only work jobs in the off season Soccer(FAI) treat them and the government treat them as elite so thats fine. GAA agreed with government for a change for 2021 season. it isnt discriminatory. on what grounds is it discriminatory? Gender Civil status Family status Sexual orientation Religion Age Disability Race Membership of the Traveller community Where is the discrimination? GAA were lucky to be allowed play their games in 2020 and were given an exemption when many other elite athletes were not able to train."]You're bluffing again KillingFields. You tried to bluff that the Irish women's rugby team were not overwhelmingly amateur. They are overwhelmingly amateur. After they were comprehensively beaten by France many commentators reflected on the difference between amateur and semi pro players. Hopefully you will now hold up your hands and say you were wrong to try and mislead people. The National Women's League in soccer is completely amateur. Most of the players don't even get expenses. It costs them to play. They have been training since January and playing matches since March. You are correct when you speak about the players in the Premier League of the LOI. That division is almost entirely guilty or semi pro. The same is not true of Division One of the LOI. There are at least three teams that are amateur those being Cork City, UCD and Wexford Youths. I suspect there are more. Athlone Town fielded a team of teenagers against Dundalk in last season's FAI Cup semi final. I would also wonder about Cabinteely and Treaty United. I have no problem with the fact that those players are training and playing. I am delighted to see that they have been doing so since January. There is no difference in standing between male and female inter county footballers and hurlers and the players and teams I have referred to above. The government made an unfair and unjustifiable distinction between our inter county footballers and hurlers and those players I have referred to. It was wrong pure and simple. Had the government said in January that due to the virulence of the new strain of Covid they couldn't allow four thousand inter county hurlers and footballers to go back to training nobody would have objected. To ban them from playing their sorts on the basis that they weren't "elite" was wrong. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/05/2021 17:29:39 2339616 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "But brining back elite soccer is less of a risk than elite Gaelic Games. Only 29 squads out and about as opposed to well over a 100 squads out and about. One is less risky than the other." Like I said flawed. With the multiplier we are told one can cause a major spread. If your theory is right 29 squads is close enough to every county in either hurling or football in one grade. So really if 29 is the magic number then the two sports could have been run at different times. Not that I believe inter county is where the greatest damage has occurred. While accepting that action was required but the inconsistencies are way too many and many regulations lack common sense. Shackling one sport and green lighting another with a string of nonsensically reasons is wrong. The problem I see is it is going to be harder in the future to get people to comply to anything. Also while I support masks and the distancing, unfortunately experts are now telling us that the repercussions are we will get sicker from many more things because of lost immunity. Caught between a rock and a hard spot. What would I do ? Well that is above my pay grade but I tell you one thing that in my profession if I b.s. consistently I would receive a pink slip. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3034 - 01/05/2021 17:39:10 2339617 Link
It's a pure numbers game. Bringing back elite soccer means bringing back 20 men's squads and 9 women's squads. Bringing back elite rugby is a fraction of that again. Only 5/6 squads maybe. Bringing back elite Gaelic Games is a whole other kettle of fish. Football squads (both men and women), Camogie and hurling squads in every county in Ireland. 120 or so different squads. Soccer, at an elite level in Ireland is not even hitting 25% of the amount of people that would be involved. Probably less as soccer squads are smaller. Rugby maybe 5% of the numbers if even. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13276 - 01/05/2021 13:40:59 Soccer squads are much smaller than GAA and rugby squads. Between the 4 senior squads and the academy players you are talking about 200+ players which is more than 5% and you cant be comparing that number alone with all male and female inter county squads KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3747 - 01/05/2021 17:42:29 2339618 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "But brining back elite soccer is less of a risk than elite Gaelic Games. Only 29 squads out and about as opposed to well over a 100 squads out and about. One is less risky than the other." That's a very fair point MesAmis and one with which I would not argue. Unfortunately that is not the premise upon which the ban was applied to inter county footballers and hurlers. They were told by the government that they were not "elite" sportsmen and sportswomen. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/05/2021 18:29:29 2339627 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "That's a very fair point MesAmis and one with which I would not argue. Unfortunately that is not the premise upon which the ban was applied to inter county footballers and hurlers. They were told by the government that they were not "elite" sportsmen and sportswomen." Because they are not professional set ups The soccer teams or at least a significant proportion of players/managers are professionals... The elite terminology was used to allow inter county be played before christmas. It was changed to professional only then KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3747 - 01/05/2021 18:38:38 2339628 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Because they are not professional set ups The soccer teams or at least a significant proportion of players/managers are professionals... The elite terminology was used to allow inter county be played before christmas. It was changed to professional only then" I answered you previously about this KillingFields. What you have to say is true in relation to the LOI Premier Division only. In Division One of The LOI Cork City, UCD and Wexford Youths are all amateur teams. Athlone Town fielded a team of teenagers against Dundalk in the semi final of the FAI Cup last season. I would also ask questions about Cabinteely and Treaty Utd. The Women's National League in soccer which has been underway since March is a completely amateur league. Most of the players don't even get expenses. It costs them to play. There is no difference between the teams and players I have referenced above and inter county players. By the way will you finally admit that you were bluffing in relation to the status of the vast majority of the players in the Irish womens rugby team. Most of them are amateur too. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/05/2021 20:00:59 2339639 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "That's a very fair point MesAmis and one with which I would not argue. Unfortunately that is not the premise upon which the ban was applied to inter county footballers and hurlers. They were told by the government that they were not "elite" sportsmen and sportswomen." link Yes. That's what Martin said, only some rugby, soccer teams and horseracing were deemed to be elite for the purposes of allowing competitions to be run and hopefully reduce the chance of COVID transmission. Alan Milton said the GAA couldn't bubble their athletes, they would mix in wider circles through family, work, studies etc than professional or semi-professional athletes. Inter-county GAA teams were elite athletes for 2020 championship. They're still elite. The powers that be wanted the GAA locked down to reduce transmission risk. It wasn't a slight on the GAA and thankfully it put less people at risk. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7944 - 01/05/2021 20:27:56 2339641 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Because they are not professional set ups The soccer teams or at least a significant proportion of players/managers are professionals... The elite terminology was used to allow inter county be played before christmas. It was changed to professional only then" You are now big time bluffing to make your point. Since when did "a significant portion of" cut it when it comes to spreading the virus. Good luck to them that they can play. However a huge proportion of them the nearest they get to professionalism is watching t.v. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3034 - 01/05/2021 20:36:13 2339643 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "link Yes. That's what Martin said, only some rugby, soccer teams and horseracing were deemed to be elite for the purposes of allowing competitions to be run and hopefully reduce the chance of COVID transmission. Alan Milton said the GAA couldn't bubble their athletes, they would mix in wider circles through family, work, studies etc than professional or semi-professional athletes. Inter-county GAA teams were elite athletes for 2020 championship. They're still elite. The powers that be wanted the GAA locked down to reduce transmission risk. It wasn't a slight on the GAA and thankfully it put less people at risk." I accept that GreenandRed and I agree with you. The key phrase was to "keep activities low." That wasn't said initially when the elite status was revoked. It came with retrospective reflection. I don't envy the government. Their job is extremely difficult. I do feel that their treatment of a group of players who contributed hugely to the wellbeing of the country during the dark nights of last winter and the dark times of a Covid lockdown has left an awful lot to be desired. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/05/2021 21:51:10 2339659 Link
Replying To Canuck: "You are now big time bluffing to make your point. Since when did "a significant portion of" cut it when it comes to spreading the virus. Good luck to them that they can play. However a huge proportion of them the nearest they get to professionalism is watching t.v." Most of the players who arent full time professionals mainly work during the soccer off season but are full time professionals during the actual soccer season Its still far more than GAA players. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3747 - 01/05/2021 21:52:28 2339660 Link
In reply , it is damaging to have other sports available to our young people and not GAA, we will loose players, also I do not think local politicians made this decision GAAK (Derry) - Posts: 20 - 01/05/2021 21:54:56 2339662 Link
Replying To GAAK: "In reply , it is damaging to have other sports available to our young people and not GAA, we will loose players, also I do not think local politicians made this decision" Next thing you'll have lads going to dances, it's time to reinstate the Vigilance Committee ! AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 01/05/2021 22:30:56 2339666 Link
Replying To GAAK: "In reply , it is damaging to have other sports available to our young people and not GAA, we will loose players, also I do not think local politicians made this decision" Its not damaging at all that you have people active. GAA has loads of players and depth anyway what kind of players are loose anyway? Local politicians didnt make the decision. national politicians did. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3747 - 01/05/2021 22:51:31 2339668 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Most of the players who arent full time professionals mainly work during the soccer off season but are full time professionals during the actual soccer season Its still far more than GAA players." That's only true for some clubs in The Premier Division if The LOI. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/05/2021 23:22:33 2339671 Link
Replying To GAAK: "In reply , it is damaging to have other sports available to our young people and not GAA, we will loose players, also I do not think local politicians made this decision" It's down to the so called Irish media as well. Promoting all sports ahead of GAA. Always last on their list. Take the Sunday World today. From back page 17 pages of foreign sport until Spillane with GAA. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2289 - 02/05/2021 11:28:30 2339682 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "It's down to the so called Irish media as well. Promoting all sports ahead of GAA. Always last on their list. Take the Sunday World today. From back page 17 pages of foreign sport until Spillane with GAA." Saynothing, you know what you're getting when you buy that rag. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 02/05/2021 11:58:34 2339683 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "It's down to the so called Irish media as well. Promoting all sports ahead of GAA. Always last on their list. Take the Sunday World today. From back page 17 pages of foreign sport until Spillane with GAA." Paper catering to its market.... how much GAA on right now for them to be covering? Soccer season near the conclusion of its season. Rugby same with european semis this weekend. How much GAA news would you expect the paper to have right now? KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3747 - 02/05/2021 12:24:53 2339686 Link