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Replying To thegadfly: "No way. Not to me anyway. I suppose it depends on personal political views. I wouldn't be that fond of the word "nationalist." I'd prefer to use the word republican. Too many negative connotations around the word nationalist for me. All republicans in the south would probably be of the opinion that republicans in the North are as Irish as the next person. TAL." Good post. I been to Down games in Cavan good few times last few years ( unfortunately Cavan won them all, arguably Down should have won them all lol) before the pandemic and always felt it was still my country. I do not want partition on this island. Unfortunately there are others that do. A border is a symbol of division.
A strong Nationalist viewpoint would be especially expected in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal as if the Unionists have of wanted all of Ulster in 1921 the British would of given it to them. James Craig opted for 6 counties as there were too many Nationalists in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal. Shows how artificial the Northern state is. People in the other three Northern counties could easily have suffered the same fate Northern Nationalists have had to endure.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 03/06/2021 14:59:53
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Maybe I should reply to you by not answering the question? That's your modus operandi, right? You still never actually got around to the previous conversation btw.
And you are clearly unable to read. I'm not obsessed with growth. I am quite ambivalent on the names, I'm simply pointing out that if we do want growth and want to reach out further than just the nationalist community, then this type of thing is the barrier. Have you not read the top of the thread or my posts. I'm not obsessed, but simply pointing it out as it is something that is being brought up.
And I'm literally telling you, this is what's stopping some from joining. Are you again unable to read? Stick your fingers in your ears and don't listen all you like, but it is what's a barrier to them. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it through. It's not easy for outsiders to come in easily in the North.
Oh come on now, please don't show any ignorance of Germany. That was relatively easy as was a previously partitioned country only a short time prior and similar demographics of people and was basically a continuation of the Old West Germany just taking in the East which turned into a economic basket case with the collapse of the Eastern bloc. That's clearly not the case here and nowhere near similar or as clear cut on any number of factors. Of course there was some who didn't, but nowhere near like the North. Quite disingenuous there, but I'd expect no less from you" Lets start with Germany, when the wall came down I can tell you this much, the East and West Germans had much less in common than what you would have with one of your moderate protestant friends and possibly Unionists if Ireland was reunified in the morning, that's fact not fiction.
But the Germans are a very intelligent and mature people and they got on with it, that's the difference. They look forward, most of the Irish are always looking back, you know that yourself, you have a bit of an obsession with some fella born in the 1800's.
"and was basically a continuation of the Old West Germany just taking in the East" You clearly know nothing about Germany or the German people, and certainly never spent any time in East Germany.
The difference between East and West Germany in every way was like chalk and cheese.
You said "if we do want growth ", that's not something for you to decide upon, there are well paid people who will decide on that, so I think we'll leave it to them.
I told you yesterday, I do not answer questions based on "maybes" or "unsubstantiated claims".
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 03/06/2021 15:13:52
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Replying To himachechy: ""1st step should be to understand what are the 'perceived barriers and are they real as opposed to an ingrained bias".
Interesting point. I would say that if I was from a Unionist background, or a moderate background and looked at my local GAA club which was named after and so glorifying a member of a terrorist organization, that would be very off putting in terms of being open to GAA in any way (watching, supporting, playing). I think that would be a legitimate barrier and not an ingrained bias. If I think about it the other way around, would someone from a Nationalist or moderate background be happy to get involved with Johnny Adair*FC for soccer? Or play for the Johnny Adair cup? I don't think they would (*pick any loyalist name you like who was involved in a soccer team... or boxing team or whatever)
I know you mentioned about Kevin Lynch's hurling achievements, but in the real world that name is associated with IRA far more than anything else.
I hate when the GAA gets compare to the orange order. Its a ridiculous comparison, but for some people who know nothing about GAA they think it is legitimate. Yes they should 'educate themselves', but we are all human and I can see how things like clubs and cups being named after IRA men makes it very easy for them to turn their backs on it, never understand the good the GAA does as a sporting and community organization.
I don't think we should be selling the GAA to PUL people... there is no need." Agree with everything you say there. That's what I was trying to say and you've said some things there way better than I did...
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 03/06/2021 15:14:34
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Replying To bloodyban: ""No kowtowing ". The Germans were united less than 50 years before so it wasn't such a huge issue. Northern Ireland is a massive issue if it it ever unites with Ireland. The Flag,Anthems ,compulsory Irish in schools. They would all be gone from the new state. There's no question about that. I'd have no problem with that. We'd probably join the Commonwealth and have a new joint head of state with the Queen and the President. These are all fairly significant changes that I would say would be the minimum for reunification but the run of the mill Irish person thinks these are all pie in the sky... thats not to mention joining NATO and having a properly financed defence force. The Northern Protestants aren't going to accept a terribly under resourced military after many of them serving in the RAF,Royal Navy and Army" Another dude who knows nothing about Germany. I think I'll side with "the run of the mill Irish person" on this, thanks.
I couldn't care less what the the Northern Protestants accept, they'll have to accept the results of the ballot box and abide by the law of the land the same as a man in Clare or Cork or Dublin does, that's how democracy works.
If they don't like it, they can always emigrate and the best of luck to them.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 03/06/2021 15:27:37
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Replying To AfricanGael: "Lets start with Germany, when the wall came down I can tell you this much, the East and West Germans had much less in common than what you would have with one of your moderate protestant friends and possibly Unionists if Ireland was reunified in the morning, that's fact not fiction.
But the Germans are a very intelligent and mature people and they got on with it, that's the difference. They look forward, most of the Irish are always looking back, you know that yourself, you have a bit of an obsession with some fella born in the 1800's.
"and was basically a continuation of the Old West Germany just taking in the East" You clearly know nothing about Germany or the German people, and certainly never spent any time in East Germany.
The difference between East and West Germany in every way was like chalk and cheese.
You said "if we do want growth ", that's not something for you to decide upon, there are well paid people who will decide on that, so I think we'll leave it to them.
I told you yesterday, I do not answer questions based on "maybes" or "unsubstantiated claims"." I lived in Germany for a year and can speak the language at a conversational level. But you keep talking haha :D
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 03/06/2021 15:51:24
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Replying To AfricanGael: "Another dude who knows nothing about Germany. I think I'll side with "the run of the mill Irish person" on this, thanks.
I couldn't care less what the the Northern Protestants accept, they'll have to accept the results of the ballot box and abide by the law of the land the same as a man in Clare or Cork or Dublin does, that's how democracy works.
If they don't like it, they can always emigrate and the best of luck to them.
" What an absolute joke of a comment. If they don't like it, they can emigrate. Who know who you're sounding like, right?
Actually going to stop replying to you after this as you're clearly a troll if that's what you think or post here. Any decent person doesn't think like that
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 03/06/2021 15:53:22
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Replying To galwayford: "Oliver Cromwell is a hero to the English. The same way as Michael Collins is here. I would respect that." Don't think Michael Collins took part in wide scale slaughter of men women and children. Most of the atrocities committed by Cromwell was after the Irish forces were defeated. If that makes him a hero to the English that says a lot. Even Germany forbids any reference to Adolf Hitler, another mass murdeter.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 273 - 03/06/2021 16:32:42
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Replying To tireoghainabu: "Don't think Michael Collins took part in wide scale slaughter of men women and children. Most of the atrocities committed by Cromwell was after the Irish forces were defeated. If that makes him a hero to the English that says a lot. Even Germany forbids any reference to Adolf Hitler, another mass murdeter." English people are told he is a 'hero' in school because of the narrative of cromwell as a Parlementarian and the english civil war. Vast majority of people have no idea he was a tyrant in Ireland. In fairness he was also pretty much a tyrant to the people of our England/ Scotland / Wales too. Cromwell managed to put the landed gentry in charge instead of the king, so the landed gentry put up a statue of him. Most English people had flip all to do with it.
History is written by the victors. Cromwell won, Hitler lost. That's why Hitler doesn't get a statue.
himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 03/06/2021 17:24:49
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Replying To himachechy: "English people are told he is a 'hero' in school because of the narrative of cromwell as a Parlementarian and the english civil war. Vast majority of people have no idea he was a tyrant in Ireland. In fairness he was also pretty much a tyrant to the people of our England/ Scotland / Wales too. Cromwell managed to put the landed gentry in charge instead of the king, so the landed gentry put up a statue of him. Most English people had flip all to do with it.
History is written by the victors. Cromwell won, Hitler lost. That's why Hitler doesn't get a statue." "Hitler lost, that's why Hitler didn't get a statue' what a pathetic argument. The German people carry the shame of Hitler's deeds and will do so for generations to come, nothing to do with victory or defeat. Germany does commerate the military leaders who were on the losing side I the First World War.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 273 - 03/06/2021 18:01:44
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Replying To himachechy: "English people are told he is a 'hero' in school because of the narrative of cromwell as a Parlementarian and the english civil war. Vast majority of people have no idea he was a tyrant in Ireland. In fairness he was also pretty much a tyrant to the people of our England/ Scotland / Wales too. Cromwell managed to put the landed gentry in charge instead of the king, so the landed gentry put up a statue of him. Most English people had flip all to do with it.
History is written by the victors. Cromwell won, Hitler lost. That's why Hitler doesn't get a statue." Ah here lad.....Hitler does not get a statue for attempting to exterminate millions....the world we live in is screwed up but it would be a lot worse if the Germans had won WW2.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 03/06/2021 20:56:17
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Don't forget it was the Germans who helped with guns to arm the volunteers in 1916,
"supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe" always had a soft spot for the Germans for that.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2737 - 03/06/2021 22:01:43
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A lot of what I've read on this post is very depressing. There really is a lot of ignorance out there.
ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 03/06/2021 22:44:40
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Unification would end this discussion :):)
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 04/06/2021 07:17:37
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