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Question For Cork Supporters

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes it is a matter of opinion but I am around too long to allow loyalty cloud my judgement. If you were to take the top four forwards head to head Mullane, Shanaahan, Flynn and Pendergast before you get to Kelly and Mulomphy I know where my money would be. In defence Ken McGrath, Tony Browne, Eoin Murphy, Peter Queally I also know where my money would be. Yes we always struggle to beat Kilkenny but could handle other teams that Cork struggled with."
I loved that waterford team, ye definitely should of won Liam with that team, 2007 semi ye had a eye on the final against us, that was your year.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 550 - 19/04/2021 20:50:14    2337925

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes it is a matter of opinion but I am around too long to allow loyalty cloud my judgement. If you were to take the top four forwards head to head Mullane, Shanaahan, Flynn and Pendergast before you get to Kelly and Mulomphy I know where my money would be. In defence Ken McGrath, Tony Browne, Eoin Murphy, Peter Queally I also know where my money would be. Yes we always struggle to beat Kilkenny but could handle other teams that Cork struggled with."
Canuck. I feel 2004 was the year ye should have won. John Mullane should have contested that suspension like Pat Horgan and Henry did. I feel Flynn was left with to carry too much . Never mind Dualsport, that Cork could not beat Clare, the weakest All Ireland winners in the last ten years or a rising Limerick team, when they were handed the game on a plate. Any time that Cork side were put under severe pressure in the past ten years they folded. I just do not believe they would have beaten Galway in '18.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2808 - 19/04/2021 21:43:44    2337939

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I'm disappointed as Munster rugby fan to see Darren Sweetnam leave Munster, I remember him playing for the Cork hurlers a few years back. He was a fine player and when he left I felt he was a loss to ye. I can only imagine how good a midfielder partnership of Darren Sweetnam and Darragh Fitzgibbon would be now.

So anyway my question for the Cork supporters is do ye think the loss of Darren Sweetnam had any impact on Cork hurling. Could he have made a difference against Clare in both all irelands final in 2013 or against us in the semi-final in 2018."
as an Offaly man, whom have fallen way off the radar, I will say this, Cork and Kilkenny in particular can and have done without manys the great player whom for whatever reason opts out etc..Yes, Cork and KIlkenny have their marquee players too, but in the main on match day if one gets injured, their loss is felt more so than if they opt out prior to a campaign, Cork and Kilkenny would readily have as good a player waiting on the wings, as good, that can be debated, but would certainly have a few similar players to draft in..whether or not these players woud have won the All Irelands Cork lost is another days work, maybe, maybe not...someone on the other team could have won the first ball between himself an Sweetman and go on full of confidence and have a blinder...you just dont know..maybe another player on the Cork team coud have had a blinder...but I will say Darren Sweetman was an fine player indeed...interesting comparison, I seen one of our own Offaly players hurling out of his skin in 1991 League, QF, SF and Final winning team, Roy Mannion of St. Rynaghs..locally in Offaly, and the minor teams of 86 and 87, Mannion was some talent, moved onto U21 loosing final in 1989 V Tipp..he progressed onto Offaly Seniors and was making number 6 his own with no less than Hubert RIgney moving to the wing back and Brian Whelehan on the other wing..what a half back line...But Eamonn Cregan came, and he and Roy Mannion didnt see eye to eye at all, and Roy left the scene maybe 23 oe 24 years of age and never to come back..He was up there with the Dooleys, Whelehan, Johnny Pilkington etc. etc...would Offaly have beaten Clare in 1995 with Roy Mannion? Would they have given Limerick such a lead in the year before in 1994....we will never know...the opposing counties will say not which is understandable...some great players for all counties suffered similar fates..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 662 - 19/04/2021 22:55:51    2337959

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Replying To Greengrass:  "I'm not sure that I'd rate the Cork 1975-79 tram as highly as you'd rate them Canuck. There's no doubt that they were an exceptional team but there are other teams that would have a shout too. Cork hurling is experiencing a title winning drought the likes of which it has never seen before. Cork have not won a single title in the National League, or at club, minor, u20/21 or Senior since 2005. Given the size and tradition of the county it is mind boggling that the last national title in those 5 categories they they have won is the All Ireland Senior hurling title title n 2005. That is 16 years and counting. I don't know what the problems are in Cork hurling but given the fact that they have only made one senior hurling final since 2005 it is obvious that the problems run deep."
I watched Cork V Kilkenny on Sky Gold or some of them channels last night, Brian Cody was a young lad in the forwards and while I didnt check the details I assume it was one of the mid 1970s games...I will say it here again..hurling was a way better game, full of sheer honest individual endeavour...no quarters asked or given but al in a very sporting way...Limerick are a fine hurling team..I see a few bringing up a few incidences over the last year and to be honest, they are no worse but very less frequent than some of the things Kilkenny got away with during their dominance...hurling on the edge it was called...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 662 - 20/04/2021 00:01:53    2337965

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Canuck. I feel 2004 was the year ye should have won. John Mullane should have contested that suspension like Pat Horgan and Henry did. I feel Flynn was left with to carry too much . Never mind Dualsport, that Cork could not beat Clare, the weakest All Ireland winners in the last ten years or a rising Limerick team, when they were handed the game on a plate. Any time that Cork side were put under severe pressure in the past ten years they folded. I just do not believe they would have beaten Galway in '18."
I don't wish any ill will on Cork but to be honest if we cannot make it I would and will enjoy the dominance of Limerick or the return of Clare and Wexford with no begrudgary towards Galway either, to the winners arena.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1217 - 20/04/2021 00:10:29    2337966

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Canuck. I feel 2004 was the year ye should have won. John Mullane should have contested that suspension like Pat Horgan and Henry did. I feel Flynn was left with to carry too much . Never mind Dualsport, that Cork could not beat Clare, the weakest All Ireland winners in the last ten years or a rising Limerick team, when they were handed the game on a plate. Any time that Cork side were put under severe pressure in the past ten years they folded. I just do not believe they would have beaten Galway in '18."
Never mind yourself Oldtourman, I could list off the failures of that Waterford team too to belittle your opinion. John Mullane did the right thing and took his suspension because he hadn't a leg to stand on, jabbing Brian Murphy with the butt of the hurley into his face, I don't think they would have beaten Cork in 2004 if they had reached the all-Ireland either. It's all just hypothetical opinions here your opinion or anyone's is not superior to mine or anyone else's. Also to refer to the 2013 Clare team as the weakest all-Ireland champions is just condescending and begrudgery, they were a very good team that should have won at least 1 more all-Ireland.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 20/04/2021 10:31:18    2337988

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Never mind yourself Oldtourman, I could list off the failures of that Waterford team too to belittle your opinion. John Mullane did the right thing and took his suspension because he hadn't a leg to stand on, jabbing Brian Murphy with the butt of the hurley into his face, I don't think they would have beaten Cork in 2004 if they had reached the all-Ireland either. It's all just hypothetical opinions here your opinion or anyone's is not superior to mine or anyone else's. Also to refer to the 2013 Clare team as the weakest all-Ireland champions is just condescending and begrudgery, they were a very good team that should have won at least 1 more all-Ireland."
The retaliator always gets caught. The plan was always to get Mullane sent off in that game by antagonizing him. He was black and blue from his waist up. Did he complain? Yes he had to send off because his action was the obvious one. Funny how things go though Conor Gleeson again got sent off in 2017 for swing back after he had a hurley buried in his ribs when the game was over. Never sent off before or since. The rules are the rules I guess and all our idols have done stuff in the heat of battle. However you do seem to a little obsessed with Waterford failures. You know it is not what we win or lose but how we played the game.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1217 - 20/04/2021 13:46:13    2338024

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Never mind yourself Oldtourman, I could list off the failures of that Waterford team too to belittle your opinion. John Mullane did the right thing and took his suspension because he hadn't a leg to stand on, jabbing Brian Murphy with the butt of the hurley into his face, I don't think they would have beaten Cork in 2004 if they had reached the all-Ireland either. It's all just hypothetical opinions here your opinion or anyone's is not superior to mine or anyone else's. Also to refer to the 2013 Clare team as the weakest all-Ireland champions is just condescending and begrudgery, they were a very good team that should have won at least 1 more all-Ireland."
Clare have had only one very good year since 2014. I was delighted they won in 2013 and would never begrudge any of the so-called lesser teams an outright success However I recall a man saying to me the following day (2013), 'They are the new Kilkenny' and I did not disagree with him. What has happened to such a promising team since?. As regards Cork they have beaten every man and his donkey in first games in Munster over the past eleven years only to collapse in Croke Park almost every time. They may buck that trend this year, but it is hard to see it happening- of course they will come back, but I find it hard to see it happening this year. I would not as readily dismiss that Waterford team. I tipped them early year when Gleeson displayed a new determination by presenting in such a well prepared persona for the new year. They also have players that were injured last year to return and Cahill is a fine manager. Sorry for sounding offensive Dualsport, as you say it is only all one mans opinion May the best team win as ever.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2808 - 20/04/2021 14:40:24    2338032

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Replying To Canuck:  "The retaliator always gets caught. The plan was always to get Mullane sent off in that game by antagonizing him. He was black and blue from his waist up. Did he complain? Yes he had to send off because his action was the obvious one. Funny how things go though Conor Gleeson again got sent off in 2017 for swing back after he had a hurley buried in his ribs when the game was over. Never sent off before or since. The rules are the rules I guess and all our idols have done stuff in the heat of battle. However you do seem to a little obsessed with Waterford failures. You know it is not what we win or lose but how we played the game."
Yes, indeed the same as what happened with Andrew O'Shaughnessy and the same player.. And the Cork Full back should have been sent off for outrageous tackle on Austin earlier in that game in '17 anyway and he was not even warned. The same with O'Donoghue and his 'tackle' on Cian Lynch, when he was already on a yellow card. The fact is umpires never seem to see some of these things or draw the refs attention to it. Luckily camera scrutiny is getting a bit better and these lads will get highlighted more from now on.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2808 - 20/04/2021 16:58:23    2338069

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Replying To Canuck:  "The retaliator always gets caught. The plan was always to get Mullane sent off in that game by antagonizing him. He was black and blue from his waist up. Did he complain? Yes he had to send off because his action was the obvious one. Funny how things go though Conor Gleeson again got sent off in 2017 for swing back after he had a hurley buried in his ribs when the game was over. Never sent off before or since. The rules are the rules I guess and all our idols have done stuff in the heat of battle. However you do seem to a little obsessed with Waterford failures. You know it is not what we win or lose but how we played the game."
So is that what you're resorting to now snide remarks about me being obsessed with Waterford failures I actually thought we were having a civil debate, i think it's clear I was making a point on a right of reply after my opinion was demeaned. I was originally looking for a Cork supporters perspective on a player and team and compared them to the Limericks 90's team and Waterford and Galway 00's teams. I feel this Cork team is better than those but I'm no way trying to demean those teams especially when that Limerick team is involved. They're all brilliant teams and I have great time for alot of their players and it actually shows how hard it is to win an all-Ireland when those teams didn't. Yes it's a highly debatable subject but there is no need for you to get the hump for my view, I'm done with this issue now because it's getting stupid.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 20/04/2021 17:22:38    2338074

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "So is that what you're resorting to now snide remarks about me being obsessed with Waterford failures I actually thought we were having a civil debate, i think it's clear I was making a point on a right of reply after my opinion was demeaned. I was originally looking for a Cork supporters perspective on a player and team and compared them to the Limericks 90's team and Waterford and Galway 00's teams. I feel this Cork team is better than those but I'm no way trying to demean those teams especially when that Limerick team is involved. They're all brilliant teams and I have great time for alot of their players and it actually shows how hard it is to win an all-Ireland when those teams didn't. Yes it's a highly debatable subject but there is no need for you to get the hump for my view, I'm done with this issue now because it's getting stupid."
Too old to get humped about anything. Thanks for your support and and will continue to return same. Your opinion is not demeaned. Just disagreed with. At this point in time rating the current Cork team better than teams who went to the top does not seem correct. Maybe they will prove me wrong in 2021.
The subject of why Cork has lost some of their dominance is a good question. Really do they have a divine right to the pedestal. Neither does Tipp or Kilkenny but we can enjoy their contribution also.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1217 - 20/04/2021 18:13:51    2338081

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "No it's not off the mark at all, its all just opinion. You have a loyalty to that Waterford team that is fair enough, but it's my opinion as a neutral that the present Cork team is better than the Waterford and Galway teams of the 00's, in 2013 that Cork team could do something that Waterford team couldn't beat that Kilkenny team in a Championship game. If Cork had beaten us in the 2018 semi-final they would have beaten Galway in the final too."
I would agree that the present Cork team may be better than the Galway team of the 00's but I'd still have that Waterford team a fair bit ahead of Cork. Mind you theres a similarity between both in that the two have/had troubles in their full back lines but for entertainment value alone Waterford were much better. In my book they probably deserved an All Ireland but I always thought the five week wait for a semi final with Kilkenny (04?) cost them dearly and obviously Limerick did a number on them as well when they were going well
On another note I think Galway would have beaten Cork in 18 had it happened purely because I'd imagine Galway would have approached the game differently. They certainly would not have been as afraid of Corks half backline as they were of Limericks anyway and might have actually gone long with an odd puck out.! Who knows I suppose

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 81 - 20/04/2021 19:50:41    2338099

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Replying To cityman73:  "I loved that waterford team, ye definitely should of won Liam with that team, 2007 semi ye had a eye on the final against us, that was your year."
Downed by the great Donie Ryan if I remember correctly

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 81 - 20/04/2021 19:52:45    2338100

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "No it's not off the mark at all, its all just opinion. You have a loyalty to that Waterford team that is fair enough, but it's my opinion as a neutral that the present Cork team is better than the Waterford and Galway teams of the 00's, in 2013 that Cork team could do something that Waterford team couldn't beat that Kilkenny team in a Championship game. If Cork had beaten us in the 2018 semi-final they would have beaten Galway in the final too."
Kilkenny were after two hard games against Dublin and two further tough games against both Tipp and Waterford and were reduced to 14 men early on. Like Wexford in'14 against us, the big flow of games might have just caught up with them Remember Waterford took KK to a replay in '16 and beat them in '17 and 20. And considering they had Conor Gleeson off and Bennett, the goal scorer, got injured early on and for some reason Austin Gleeson never got into the game, like he did against us last year, they gave a fine display against Galway in the '17 Final. These are only my opinions DS, but there you go

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2808 - 21/04/2021 15:34:21    2338224

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Kilkenny were after two hard games against Dublin and two further tough games against both Tipp and Waterford and were reduced to 14 men early on. Like Wexford in'14 against us, the big flow of games might have just caught up with them Remember Waterford took KK to a replay in '16 and beat them in '17 and 20. And considering they had Conor Gleeson off and Bennett, the goal scorer, got injured early on and for some reason Austin Gleeson never got into the game, like he did against us last year, they gave a fine display against Galway in the '17 Final. These are only my opinions DS, but there you go"
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. The Waterford team in 2016 to 2020 you are talking about is not the team I was comparing Cork to. Yes I agree playing games in quick succession can have a negative effect and so does too long of a break, it's something the GAA hasn't got the balance right with in the hurling championship. I already explained my opinions on the subject but hey don't mind me. Can we park it now and agree to disagree.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 21/04/2021 18:30:27    2338260

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. The Waterford team in 2016 to 2020 you are talking about is not the team I was comparing Cork to. Yes I agree playing games in quick succession can have a negative effect and so does too long of a break, it's something the GAA hasn't got the balance right with in the hurling championship. I already explained my opinions on the subject but hey don't mind me. Can we park it now and agree to disagree."
You are right of course. Sorry for over doing it a bit. Best of luck for the rest of the year

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2808 - 21/04/2021 19:32:17    2338269

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "You are right of course. Sorry for over doing it a bit. Best of luck for the rest of the year"
I don't want to be told I'm right or do I want an apology. Look it Oldtourman you are a fantastic contributer to this forum, you have a wealth of GAA knowledge and I have respect for your opinions on discussions. I put my views on a public forum I have no problems with them being challenged and debated, that is to be expected but If I feel myself or my views are being dismissed or belittled I will argue my point. I wish you good luck for the year too.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 22/04/2021 10:55:30    2338335

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