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Roscommon should not have won that game..they were doing a "Dublin" on it with the ball getting into positions to score but if in any doubt kept passing the ball over and back with no one brave enough to have a pop..and that is 30 years ago I am talking and can remember it well...Paul Earley was one I can remember..Meath Ide say couldnt believe the posession Roscommon were winning in forwards and not attempting to score...sorry if you dont try you cannot expect to win...I like Roscommon but too cautious altogether that day...if the tried to score they could have won..25 yards out and recycling the ball...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 08/05/2021 00:15:26 2340490 Link 0 |
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Mark Keane tells it as it collapsed all around him..what a player he was, exceptional talent..drink by his own public admission..and look, he is only human too..its hard even mentioning lads like that here, they must really beat themselves up when they look back on what might have been...wishing all players who went down the wrong road well..its easy for us to wonder here..
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 08/05/2021 00:20:43 2340491 Link 0 |
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Fitzgibbon emigrated to New York in early 1990's which is why he left the Cork panel. Mark Foley scored 2-7 in a Munster final against Tipp in 1990 but was dropped from panel in subsequent years. Finbar Delaney of Blackrock made his debut at age 30 in 1989 but was dropped for 1990 season...his son played Soccer for Crystal Palace and Ireland. Setanta O' Hailpin moved to Australia after 2003 season... he was a big loss!
Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 08/05/2021 20:43:57 2340601 Link 0 |
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icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 08/05/2021 23:14:47 2340624 Link 0 |
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Harsh words but true words. To answer your question - None of the aforementioned players were on the 2018 panel. And here's one stat that covers the time these lads would have played senior for Limerick. From 2001 to 2013 Limerick played 17 (yes, 17) championship games in Munster. And only won one (yes, one). In fact, most of those years Limerick were a disgrace. johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 08/05/2021 23:19:24 2340625 Link 0 |
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Very big indeed: about 6'3", and 200 lbs.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1910 - 09/05/2021 03:27:05 2340636 Link 0 |
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Eoin Foley son of the Great Sean Foley Of the well in Limerick. Big Talent But also disappeared longtermfan (Limerick) - Posts: 120 - 09/05/2021 07:55:17 2340646 Link 0 |
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Your a Limerick man so I suppose we will have to accede to your opinion in that...suffice to say those number of players over 12 years are not sufficient to carry a team to success of any real measure...as I said to be successful you need 10/11 minimum of top class players every year to settle a team..DJ Carey hurled on some poor Kilkenny teams too (poor by their standards I might add).Birr beat what was perceived an strong Young Ireland's team in a Leinster Club final by 205 to 0-02 back in mid 2000's and DJ Carey was on that Young Ireland's team and never felt the weight of the ball in that game..only 0-02 for an adult team to score in a whole game with Carey and a couple more big names also in the team....the point Ime making again is one or two or 4/5 very good players wont necessarily win you silverware..12 years hurling and not winning anything is a long career and most counties have excellent players who unfortunately will never win anything as the overall team isn't strong enough...I will accede that you know Limerick hurling better than me to be fair to you..
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 09/05/2021 11:30:15 2340673 Link 1 |
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To be fair, Gizzy had more than 1-2 good seasons and was very unlucky his health failed him.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 09/05/2021 11:34:39 2340675 Link 0 |
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Clare Minor team of 89...some stars in there we heard little of after..Paul Lee, Paul O'Rourke, Pat Minogue Ger Moroney (a young Moroney hurler killed in car accident around 1995 or so - apologies in advance if that was Ger- if so I suppose no harm remembering him as a fine hurler) ...there was a decent scattering of players on that who fell fully away...we needn't mention the big names on it who went onto to have success with Clare..
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 09/05/2021 11:42:41 2340679 Link 0 |
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Laochra Gael on TG4 done a great programme on him some time back. Well worth a watch.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 09/05/2021 12:08:00 2340687 Link 0 |
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You have to be down here in Limerick to know what went on in the past. Admittedly - the Limerick media and some supporters hyped these lads out of all proportion when they won at under-21. And maybe some players believed what they saw and read. In addition, I am not sure whether some of these players were fully committed to playing intercounty. To give one example - the morning after the 2007 AI Final the players had a meeting. And what was the topic of the agenda - the team holiday. If I lost an All-Ireland final holidays would be the very least of my thoughts. But that was the culture of that time.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 10/05/2021 13:59:40 2340922 Link 0 |
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Also - these players were poorly managed. If these players had been managed better they may have had success. But we will never now know.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 10/05/2021 14:18:07 2340925 Link 0 |
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I am assuming you are close to the thing if you know about the meeting the morning after the All Ireland final, if you are close fair enough, otherwise I would say that was said by someone out to beat the team after loosing..surely to God that didnt happen..it could be mentioned maybe in passing and then someone put wheels on it and said "oh they had a meeting about the holiday"...a fellah up here was telling a yarn about something that happened and he kept saying "They say that etc. etc."...a stranger was sitting in the corner and as he left, he said "who are they that you refer to"...the man who said it initially looked a bit confused and said, "I dont really know, everyone is saying it"...the stranger said and who is "everyone, name one person who said what your alleging"...and the man said "well I dont know, I just heard that"...the stranger said to the man "thats the problem with stories like what you just told, they are told as fact, and when pressed then its not really clear who if anyone actuall said anything at all..it just gets put out there then as fact"....the story is paraphrased but that was the gist of the story and one I thought is very very true... I will accede to you being close the points you make and do believe you, just putting in the bit about our stranger listening to our man banging out facts and when challenged (very few do challenge) our friend was rehashing hearsay) Frankie Carroll and Mike Houlihan l are two others I deemed put in good shifts for Limerick without any real success... Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 10/05/2021 17:57:20 2340976 Link 0 |
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The story about the team meeting is a true fact and was subsequently verified by a journalist.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 10/05/2021 19:37:35 2340989 Link 0 |
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Well Tipp 'The Home of Hurling', with 28 All Irelands went straight through from the Munster Final in 73 to the first round in 83 without winning a single Game and Cork went from 92 to 98 without winning a single game in Munster. Lets work through those lean Limerick years. In '02 they were well beaten by Tipp but lost by a point to Cork in the back door, in '03 they drew with the then Munster Champions in as a good a game of hurling as you would wish to see. They lost the replay but Waterford won the Munster Finals in '02 and 04, so that was hardly a disgrace. In '04, with no less than six panelists opting to play football, they ran the future All Ireland Champions to a few points and lost to Tipp, again by a single point in a high scoring play off game. In 2005 it took a perfectly illegal goal by a Tipp player in extra time in a replay to edge them out. In 2006 they went out by a single point to the reigning All Ireland Champions in another classic. 2007 speaks for itself and yes things badly wrong in '08, '09 and '10, but in '11 when we only at post by a damn good Waterford team. IN '12 I thing we were on the way back and LK narrowly lost to Tipp having more than held for long periods
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 10/05/2021 19:39:56 2340991 Link 0 |
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I agree with you on this from all I have heard over the years. We gave Dave Keane no chance and brought in a man from outside, who forced a situation to occur, where six possible panelists (Steven Lucey, Connor Fitz, Mark Keane, Mike O'Brien, Mark O'Riordan and Another whom I cant remember all opted to play football for a few years. When Eamon Cregan tried to get everyone to commit to hurling in 2001 and 2002 he got no support from our County Board, yet when some body else came in it was OK.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 10/05/2021 19:48:07 2340992 Link 1 |
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Points taken. You omitted however to mention 2003 when in the qualifiers we scraped past Kerry and were well beaten by a poor Offaly team. Also, Tipperary in 2004 and 2005 and 2006 and maybe even 2007 were in transition. Yet in six meetings with a Tipperary team in transition from 2004 to 2007 we only won once. In the 2006 game we were 2-1 to no score ahead early on but still contrived to lose that game. So my point about these lads underachieving is valid. Also in 2006 Clare embarrassed us in the qualifiers in Ennis. So I think you are selective in the matches you have mentioned. Admittedly, they were poorly managed and perhaps poorly trained. But Cork won an All-Ireland in 2005 and EIGHT (yes eight) of that Cork team played in the 2000 Munster under-21 final when Limerick best them 4-18 to 1-6. And as a footnote - I had a conversation with Justin McCarthy last year and I asked him about 2009 and the dropping of players. He told me that a previous Limerick manager (who I won't name) said to him that he (the previous guy) regretted not having dropped the same players years earlier. johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 10/05/2021 22:23:23 2341012 Link 0 |
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The Unlimited Heartbreak book is very revealing about this entire period
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 10/05/2021 22:25:02 2341013 Link 0 |
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I have to say genuinely, this has turned out to be a good healthy debate, I used to be able to remember all games how they were won and lost, and still only 50 years of age, in recent times these things fade for me,I do remember most of the games when metnioned but if you asked me who knocked LImerick (or Offaly) out of championship in in 2001 or 2005 I woluldnt have a clue without looking it up..fair plays to ye...my excuse was anyway, the sheer volume of games now played with round robins etc...I just wouldnt remember them... Getting back to LImerick, our own Pat Joe Whelehan went down to ye and I genuinely thought he was the man Limerick but apparently he found alot of opposition from certain sections of county board too..shooting myself in the foot here but this is "what they were saying"..as an Offaly man I always liked Limerick, and along with Wexford, Waterford, Clare, Laois and Dublin (leaving out the other counties then immediately below these) if Limerick dont win this year, I wont mind any of the those others listed winning..I know some wont but they are trying and that is the main thing... Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 10/05/2021 22:53:34 2341024 Link 1 |