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Proposed Hurling Rule Changes

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Replying To Tadhg2020: "And a penalty for the offence inside the 20m line and D wouldnt deter people from pulling down, tripping or carelessly striking with the Hurley? Of course it would. The sin bin on top of thst is a double sanction for the same offence and the reason why this rule will not be retained. Secondly the wording is too vague. What is a goal scoring opportunity? The motion is too vague. Is it last defender beaten? It doesn't say. All possessions inside the 20m line and D are pretty much goal scoring opportunities in hurling. Being issue that needs to be tidied up. Then there are the three fouls listed in the motion, namely, pull down, tripping of opponent and careless striking with the hurl. What type of trip? Is it a deliberate trip or accidental?it doesn't say and has to imo. Forwards are very good at creating contact and tripping up. Now they have massive incentive to do so. The trip that this rule applies to has to be clearly defined otherwise its open to interpretation and thus controversial application or non application. What does careless striking of the opponent with the hurl mean? All striking of the opponent was a red card. Has that now been downgraded. This part is really vague and requires further attention. The whole rule needs amendment if it is to be fit for purpose. If a rule change is to survive regarding cynical play it needs to be clearly defined and not open to interpretation. It needs to address the issue at hand while being fair and just. A penalty and yellow card for any cynical foul by the last defender does that. A penalty plus yellow card for any foul in the large square and a free plus sin bin for any cynical foul outside the large box does that. A penalty plus a yellow card will be resented by all teams and gotten rid of as soon as possible. It will be resisted and railed against in a similar manner to the black card in football. Refs will be reluctant to use it and inconsistent in its use when they do. Teams will be relegated by decisions that went against them in games while similar offences were deemed a free and yellow card at the other end. They made an unpopular rule change unsupportable by any team due to its harshness and therefore is doomed to fail." Cant agree. The punishment up to now for a drag down/trip in preventing a goal scoring opportunity has been a yellow usually and a penalty or free in. This has proved to be no deterrent. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 27/02/2021 23:25:25 2333015 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "What relevance are players' opinions? Majority of them don't know the rules. Players will play whatever the rules. Cynicism reached a new level last year, this is a welcome addition." You are not serious the players opinions do not matter? Who are the ones being fouled? Who are the ones training 12 months a year and giving up a social life? The players are. I know you will come back with they don't have to play argument. They play because they love the game and their opinions absolutely count in a game they give so much too. I find it interesting Patrick Horgan a man who would benefit greatly from these new rules is against them. To say their opinions have no relevance and they do not know the rules is totally disrespectful. I guess the players should just keep quiet and play. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 27/02/2021 23:48:08 2333018 Link
Replying To UtahBlaine: "Time will tell indeed. I think its going to cause a lot of needless controversy and will be exploited to the full by forwards and coaches.The same coaches who have been busy telling defenders over the last few years not to concede a goal at all costs will now get busy telling their forwards to grab their opponents hurl and go to ground as quickly as possible because the rewards are great .Some wont have a lot to learn anyway as they're already deadly at it" I fully agree with you. I also agree with "arock" comments about Danny Sutcliff. That was a particularly nasty foul. I though at the time that deserved a straight red. Simple as. Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 28/02/2021 09:04:28 2333034 Link
Replying To UtahBlaine: "Time will tell indeed. I think its going to cause a lot of needless controversy and will be exploited to the full by forwards and coaches.The same coaches who have been busy telling defenders over the last few years not to concede a goal at all costs will now get busy telling their forwards to grab their opponents hurl and go to ground as quickly as possible because the rewards are great .Some wont have a lot to learn anyway as they're already deadly at it" I fully agree with you. I also agree with "arock" comments about Danny Sutcliff. That was a particularly nasty foul. I though at the time that deserved a straight red. Simple as. Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 28/02/2021 09:04:28 2333035 Link
Now the defenders need to defend with the hurley not the hand, hooking and blocking how its meant to be and not pulling and dragging. Advantage is then with the attacking forwards some will say. Its up to the refs to pay attention to steps and charging and throws by forwards. ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 28/02/2021 11:14:38 2333051 Link
Well I guess they have made a mess of football with rule changes why should they stop there might as well mess up Hurling also. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 28/02/2021 12:12:07 2333060 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "From a Galway point of view, the rule that will cause a lot of controversy is the one that stipulates that the maximum number of senior and intermediate clubs in a county championship is 16. We have 23 senior hurling clubs in Galway. Arguably it is 4 or 5 too many but how a county organises its own club championship and how many teams it has in its club championship should be a matter for itself to decide and neither Croke Park nor anyone else from outside the county should have a say in it. We had a wonderful club championship last year, lots of very evenly contested games and very few games with wide margin winners. I think this rule will be met with stiff resistance from clubs and rightly so. Personally I would favour reducing the number of senior clubs we have to 20 or possibly even to 18 but I think 16 is too drastic a reduction. Even if it means forgoing participation in the All Ireland club hurling championship, I think the clubs in Galway should decide on how their championship is run and should not be dictated to by outside forces." Its 24 Senior hurling Clubs in Galway and I've always maintained that is too many. We had 20 Senior teams for years and that worked fine (4 groups of 5). I'm definitely in favour of reducing the Senior teams...too many teams just making up the numbers and Will never win a Co. Senior Cup. 16 Senior teams, 16 Intermediate teams and 16 Junior A teams will make for highly Competitive respective Championships...(Intermediate Championship would be furiously hard to win with great matches) katser (Galway) - Posts: 2210 - 28/02/2021 14:29:21 2333078 Link
Replying To gatha: "You are not serious the players opinions do not matter? Who are the ones being fouled? Who are the ones training 12 months a year and giving up a social life? The players are. I know you will come back with they don't have to play argument. They play because they love the game and their opinions absolutely count in a game they give so much too. I find it interesting Patrick Horgan a man who would benefit greatly from these new rules is against them. To say their opinions have no relevance and they do not know the rules is totally disrespectful. I guess the players should just keep quiet and play." I won't say they don't have to play and totally acknowledge what the players do for our enjoyment. The reward they get is not close to what they deserve. However if you left it to the current players to make the rules there would be no rules. Of course when they retire they would be in favour of all sort of rules. Patrick Horgan might be doing some math if I am dragged down once and my full back drags down twice to stop a goal then we are ahead. It seems to be a culture or badge of honour for players to oppose any changes. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 28/02/2021 15:00:57 2333083 Link
Good points being made looking on this rule change put in on a trial basis for a year. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that originally this motion was to cover such fouls outside the 20m line as well as inside it. I think that if people have patience with its implementation then we could be looking at extending its range to outside of the 20m line as well. I think that coaches and players will show up the benefits of the rule this year as we will see in action its benefits inside the 20m line and we will want it implemented outside the 20m line next year! That does require referees understanding and implementing it properly. For one I do have faith in them implementing it well. It will I think put real pressure on defenders to increase their skill set in how they defend...JJ Delaney and his hook in All Ireland replay a few years ago on Seamus Callinan as one good example as opposed wrapping his hurl around him and conceding a foul and getting a card. I think we will get more goals and I think the game needs more goals as well. carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 28/02/2021 15:19:10 2333084 Link
In other sports do players contribute to the rule making process. You think Richie McCaw was involved in rule making for World Rugby or Ronaldo helping FIFA to make rules. Not a chance. Players play. When they retire if they want to referee then great, or coach. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1502 - 28/02/2021 16:15:23 2333088 Link
Come off it, how can anybody think a sanction for the most blatantly cynical play is unwarranted? Teams know full well when to foul these days. Just from a Wexford point of view, I bet in the 2019 Leinster Final Padraig Walsh would have pulled down Rory O'Connor if he was back standing on that 21 yard line. Do people really think that the lad who pulled him down for the penalty shouldn't get more of a punishment than if he had tried to play the ball? I would much prefer to see a goal from open play than a goal from a penalty. Hurling is not perfect no matter how much the deluded souls who proclaim its purity believe it is. There are cynical players and cynical play, and it is a problem. There is rampant cheating and diving in the game now by ALL sides, backs and forwards falling to the ground to win frees. There is nothing honest about that. If lads want to just pull a lad down rather than trying to hook or block him or get a hurl in then go play rugby. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1736 - 28/02/2021 16:22:09 2333089 Link
The elephant in the room is simulation. Brian Lohan has brought it up.. Its pretty bad with the heads being dipped into tackles and the staying down. This new rule will encourage diving and make the refs job harder. Its going to be different that is for sure. It could all be for the best..I doubt it though not with the calibre of ref we have. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 28/02/2021 16:43:47 2333095 Link
I guess time will tell how it goes. All I can say is that every change in hurling has been met with criticism and the the critics almost always go silent afterwards. Havent heard a word form Richie Power since his outrage at introducing a round robin in 2018. ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 28/02/2021 17:59:01 2333105 Link
I remember Hanberry for Galway body slamming Seamus Callanan to the ground a few years ago. Well time for this type of stuff to be stopped. The only pity is that they didn't include in the rule that if the ref was unsure if the offence was inside the zone for the penalty (i.e. if it was on the line or very close that meant he was unsure) that the benefit of the doubt should go against the player being cynical or if the fouled happened outside the zone but the ref deemed that the player was clean through or 2 on 1 he could still award the penalty. I get that it would be hard to include that type of rule but it would be nice! Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1833 - 02/03/2021 11:54:05 2333286 Link
Replying To bloodyban: "The elephant in the room is simulation. Brian Lohan has brought it up.. Its pretty bad with the heads being dipped into tackles and the staying down. This new rule will encourage diving and make the refs job harder. Its going to be different that is for sure. It could all be for the best..I doubt it though not with the calibre of ref we have." So because someone dives we should not have a new rule for pulling down someone about to score a goal. Think about that ? Why do we make things so difficult ? How about if any of the officials see that it was a dive it is dealt with by sending the diver off and giving a free the other way that will probably put over the bar. How about if you don't want to stop the game and review, all penalties are reviewed afterwards and if a dive was seen deal with the player. "It is not as simple as that." Yes it is and we need to stop trying figure how things won't work. A good rule is a one that will be required seldom or hopefully never. It is the deterrent . I grew up when the goalie got run over nearly in every game. How often is goalie interfered with now because of the consequences. Mistakes will happen. Correct them and move on. As regards reffing. It as totally ridiculous to have one man in the fastest sport in the world, on the largest playing surface expecting to do and see everything. There are six other officials out there. Train them or remove some of them and use a second referee. I have no time for these people who don't want change to match the changes in the games. The games as played today are only a cousin of when they started and continue to evolve. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 02/03/2021 14:20:35 2333300 Link
Replying To bloodyban: "The elephant in the room is simulation. Brian Lohan has brought it up.. Its pretty bad with the heads being dipped into tackles and the staying down. This new rule will encourage diving and make the refs job harder. Its going to be different that is for sure. It could all be for the best..I doubt it though not with the calibre of ref we have." Funny thing, I was only thinking that last night, players (e.g. Barry Heffernan Tipp v ourselves in 2019) well able to trip themselves up, I still remember Michael Duignan noticing it but deciding against calling it out. The real classic will be the player falling across the defender or leaning into the defender. Its a mine field but the game is now full of cheats on all teams. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1736 - 02/03/2021 15:10:00 2333310 Link
Replying To StoreysTash: "Funny thing, I was only thinking that last night, players (e.g. Barry Heffernan Tipp v ourselves in 2019) well able to trip themselves up, I still remember Michael Duignan noticing it but deciding against calling it out. The real classic will be the player falling across the defender or leaning into the defender. Its a mine field but the game is now full of cheats on all teams." The cheating is a problem for sure and can be dealt with but you can't not deal with deliberate dragging down. Maybe Brian Lohan is the elephant in the room already putting pressure on the refs and already planning how to deal with the rule to his advantage. The old nod nod wink wink stuff that is in our genes. A handy auld rule if it is my guy is pulled down but I can always fall back to claiming faking if it is my guy doing the pulling down. Maybe these trainers and managers would be better off teaching their players how to defend better one on one and encourage them to behave ethically. I have said it before in hockey the majority of players hate the fakers and will lay into them. Even team members don't like fakers. It is just a culture thing that I believe gaelic players are capable of. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 02/03/2021 16:45:32 2333321 Link
Replying To StoreysTash: "Funny thing, I was only thinking that last night, players (e.g. Barry Heffernan Tipp v ourselves in 2019) well able to trip themselves up, I still remember Michael Duignan noticing it but deciding against calling it out. The real classic will be the player falling across the defender or leaning into the defender. Its a mine field but the game is now full of cheats on all teams." Another annoying one is the attacker catching the defenders hurl under is arm and throwing himself to the ground. Maybe lengthy retrospective bans for lads caught cheating on tv as there are in place for dangerous play and helmet infringements might provide a deterrent? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 02/03/2021 18:21:52 2333333 Link
In a conversation with an executive from Croke Park and asked if players are coached in the dark arts his answer was of course they are. One particular hurling team who where supposed to be training behind closed doors were practicing giving the elbow a slight lift so a clean catch could not be made. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 02/03/2021 20:58:48 2333352 Link
Both hurling and football have a history of the dark arts... whether it's the tipping of the helmet, the hold of the hersey, the slipping or falling 'accidentally of course' on to the back of a player on the ground the box in the neck when catching a high ball, the holding of the Hurley under ones arm or with the hand, just for a second or two of course - we have had them all. That should include the dive as well of course particularly into the square ! We would be very naive if we believed that our games did not have some skullduggery. I do think that most of it is a learned trait from years of experience in club games and on the training field. But, managers, coaches will issue statements on the field in preparation for games, that opposition players can't be allowed to score goals. That then is a clear message to use whatever means to ensure just that, a player must be stopped especially for goals. That has been there for a long time. We are more conscious of it now as we have so many cameras at the games and we see the incident from more than one angle and we have plenty of analysis form the panel of experts before at half time and after games. carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 03/03/2021 12:02:30 2333394 Link