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One Club Is Over?

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I apologise for this question. Why are clubs doing S & C programmes now and for the last couple of weeks if there is not going to be club champiionships till probably July. I am not being facetious just enquiring. There is going to be no matches in any shape or form till the latter end of the summer. Is there someone out there who is into sports science that can explain the reason for such programmes now so early.

roseyinthegarden (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 26/02/2021 22:32:27    2332865

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "I apologise for this question. Why are clubs doing S & C programmes now and for the last couple of weeks if there is not going to be club champiionships till probably July. I am not being facetious just enquiring. There is going to be no matches in any shape or form till the latter end of the summer. Is there someone out there who is into sports science that can explain the reason for such programmes now so early."
I think the fact you have had no responses is telling. The fact is it is pointless at this stage of year.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4551 - 27/02/2021 23:08:59    2333010

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We aren't anyway although lads are doing some core strength stuff, many of them do it all year round but I'd imagine a lot of it is home based stuff these days.
But why wouldn't they be doing some S&C - it takes time, much more time than speed work etc, to get a good muscle profile. People trying to do it too quick are why people get injured.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 952 - 28/02/2021 16:28:13    2333092

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Replying To roseyinthegarden:  "I apologise for this question. Why are clubs doing S & C programmes now and for the last couple of weeks if there is not going to be club champiionships till probably July. I am not being facetious just enquiring. There is going to be no matches in any shape or form till the latter end of the summer. Is there someone out there who is into sports science that can explain the reason for such programmes now so early."
S&C isn't really something you'd just do at specific times of the year. I'd say most players are at some form of S&C the majority of the year even at club level. Gone are the days where players would take a 2 or 3 month total break around winter time and eat like kings. Gym culture has become a big thing in the last decade or so. It's not a bad thing at all. It keeps people fit and it's also good for mental health. I would agree though that there a lot of spoofers out there.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 01/03/2021 09:44:25    2333136

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "S&C isn't really something you'd just do at specific times of the year. I'd say most players are at some form of S&C the majority of the year even at club level. Gone are the days where players would take a 2 or 3 month total break around winter time and eat like kings. Gym culture has become a big thing in the last decade or so. It's not a bad thing at all. It keeps people fit and it's also good for mental health. I would agree though that there a lot of spoofers out there."
Thanks for the reply and I certainly agree in relation to the mental health aspect.

roseyinthegarden (Wicklow) - Posts: 9 - 01/03/2021 19:04:13    2333202

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "S&C isn't really something you'd just do at specific times of the year. I'd say most players are at some form of S&C the majority of the year even at club level. Gone are the days where players would take a 2 or 3 month total break around winter time and eat like kings. Gym culture has become a big thing in the last decade or so. It's not a bad thing at all. It keeps people fit and it's also good for mental health. I would agree though that there a lot of spoofers out there."
I agree lockjaw, any gym worth their salt will not tell people to go crazy at S&C for a few months. They'll say to build it up slowly, take a week off, then go again.
In reality, the Limerick team being the prototype have probably been slowly building up in the gym over 5-10 years. That is how to do S&C, not go in to a gym and try to put on kg's of muscle in a few months.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 952 - 02/03/2021 15:04:46    2333309

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Yeah I've seen it in lads like Michael Langan and Jason McGee here in Donegal. Both were tall rangy players. But in the last 3 years they've become absolute monsters of men. Some of that is from naturally filling out, but a patient S&C approach over the years has really worked well with them. Injury free they'll be Donegal's midfield two for the guts of the next decade I'd say.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 02/03/2021 15:54:46    2333318

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As an exiled gael who left in his mid 20's I see both sides of this. I remember club seasons ending a week before the season started again. I remember no fun, only training hard for no games, no drink allowed etc.

I have seen people try to replicate this here in the UK but we should be looking at the person and the fun aspect a bit more. Have been speaking to young lads coming over and people are disenfranchised from the culture coming out of GAA clubs. Big divide between old school lads who want to run the bollocks off fellas and younger lads who are very interested but feel like they are getting a raw deal out of their love for the sport. Have heard stories about running programs lasting weeks with no sign of a ball, training sessions running as normal during covid and drinks bans during the summer when young lads are working at home and might want a few pints.

GAA abroad is good as it can be taken seriously but without the drinks bans and bullshit that you have at home. Professional sportspeople have a drink or two after games for fuck sake.

Main aim for my club over here this year is to show lads that they can have fun playing football and furthering their career abroad without being worried about some oul lad ratting them to the manager because he had a pint in the local.

macruiskeen (UK) - Posts: 37 - 02/03/2021 18:20:50    2333332

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I agree lockjaw, any gym worth their salt will not tell people to go crazy at S&C for a few months. They'll say to build it up slowly, take a week off, then go again.
In reality, the Limerick team being the prototype have probably been slowly building up in the gym over 5-10 years. That is how to do S&C, not go in to a gym and try to put on kg's of muscle in a few months."
Hate to say it but it probably needs to start in a gentle way when lads are in their early teens.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1400 - 02/03/2021 18:23:43    2333334

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Replying To Viking66:  "Hate to say it but it probably needs to start in a gentle way when lads are in their early teens."
Yeah that's it. In Donegal, there is now a pathway from about u16 right through to senior with guidelines around areas such as S&C and nutrition. Whilst obviously not every good u16 player makes it to play senior county, or even sticks with the game it gives them a great foundation, with all of the associated physical and mental benefits attached. You could argue that it's a bit OTT for young lads finding their way but I would counter that by saying there are worse things they could be doing in adolescence.

I would also agree with the previous poster however re: the fun element being removed from the game. I think with the advent of podcasts, social media there are way too many spoofers at club level who think they have to make some sort of "mark" in the clubs they are coaching/managing. It's almost like an ego thing for some of them. Some people appear to have lost the fact that for the vast majority, playing GAA is meant to be a recreational and fun thing to do in their spare time. It's not supposed to be another "job".

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 03/03/2021 09:22:35    2333374

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah that's it. In Donegal, there is now a pathway from about u16 right through to senior with guidelines around areas such as S&C and nutrition. Whilst obviously not every good u16 player makes it to play senior county, or even sticks with the game it gives them a great foundation, with all of the associated physical and mental benefits attached. You could argue that it's a bit OTT for young lads finding their way but I would counter that by saying there are worse things they could be doing in adolescence.

I would also agree with the previous poster however re: the fun element being removed from the game. I think with the advent of podcasts, social media there are way too many spoofers at club level who think they have to make some sort of "mark" in the clubs they are coaching/managing. It's almost like an ego thing for some of them. Some people appear to have lost the fact that for the vast majority, playing GAA is meant to be a recreational and fun thing to do in their spare time. It's not supposed to be another "job"."
Could not agree more lockjaw. Football/sport n general is meant to be enjoyed, not endured. The reason children play football at a young age is because they enjoy it! The word sport actually means to enjoy something. So if, as you correctly point out managers are on an ego trip and putting ridiculous demands on players, they should be told in no uncertain terms that it is unacceptable.

They are taking the enjoyment out of the sport- over training young lads and demanding 100% committment etc. It is bonkers. I agree that there has to be a committment etc but it cannot take over your life at any level, whether it be club or county. Football is meant to be a part of your life not your whole life!! There are other far more important things in life, eg relationships, careers, friendships, family, holidays etc. If football is getting in the way of any of these things well then it is time to look at the priorities in my opinion.

Some managers/coaches/gurus/experts (in their own heads) think that roaring and shouting and taking over a young person's life is acceptable- it is not. They get huge money to spoof and most young people won't call it out as they are afraid they will be dropped or ostracised. So these people have all the power. I wonder would they be as willing to impart their "substantial knowledge" if the money stopped coming?? I wonder would they then give 100% committment as they demand off players who get a pittance in comparison?? They say oh this means so much to me, we are all in this together, etc etc- it is baloney and as I have said if the money was stopped we would not be long in seeing how much it meant to them.

It is time people took their hands out of the sand. Too many bluffers and spoofers around and I know it is driving good people away from football. We can see the trends from across the water- if a manager crosses 55 he is too old- need someone with new ideas, new ways of playing, who knows the game etc etc. It is bull- the older managers are the one with the experience in most cases and they have done it all before. You cannot teach experience but you can teach bluffers!

tonguey (Cavan) - Posts: 207 - 03/03/2021 10:20:12    2333380

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I completely agree tonguey and lockjaw.
When I finished college and had to become a trainee, I decided to join a soccer club in Dublin. I toyed with joining a GAA club but decided I would play with my club at home if work allowed, which ironicially due to Covid it never worked better from a GAA front.
Once this pandemic is over, I will definitely re-join the soccer club in Dublin as I will move back. It was fun, tough training and matches in a public park but the fun and enjoyment I got from it was unreal. I made lots of great friends through it.
I thought about joining a GAA club but knew the minute I'd walk into a club there'd be every sort of hanger on milking the club and before I knew it some del boy would be sticking a team charter in under my nose to sign.
I am 100% certain, when Michael Cusack and co attended that meeting in Hayes' Hotel, that was not their vision for the GAA.
The problem is in the GAA, if one thing works for one club, then that MUST be the answer for every club. So if one club has a dietician, every club has to have one. Inevitably, this gets infiltrated with bluffers and nutritionists (which I could call myself tomorrow morning) and people who learned a bit about it for a few months, make hay on their new-fangled knowledge.
Most young people these days look after themselves, go to the gym, eat well. But at the same time, they don't need to swear undying loyalty to a GAA club and a life outside it isn't unreasonable thing to ask for. I think this is the part the GAA are missing.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 952 - 03/03/2021 16:18:05    2333438

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I completely agree tonguey and lockjaw.
When I finished college and had to become a trainee, I decided to join a soccer club in Dublin. I toyed with joining a GAA club but decided I would play with my club at home if work allowed, which ironicially due to Covid it never worked better from a GAA front.
Once this pandemic is over, I will definitely re-join the soccer club in Dublin as I will move back. It was fun, tough training and matches in a public park but the fun and enjoyment I got from it was unreal. I made lots of great friends through it.
I thought about joining a GAA club but knew the minute I'd walk into a club there'd be every sort of hanger on milking the club and before I knew it some del boy would be sticking a team charter in under my nose to sign.
I am 100% certain, when Michael Cusack and co attended that meeting in Hayes' Hotel, that was not their vision for the GAA.
The problem is in the GAA, if one thing works for one club, then that MUST be the answer for every club. So if one club has a dietician, every club has to have one. Inevitably, this gets infiltrated with bluffers and nutritionists (which I could call myself tomorrow morning) and people who learned a bit about it for a few months, make hay on their new-fangled knowledge.
Most young people these days look after themselves, go to the gym, eat well. But at the same time, they don't need to swear undying loyalty to a GAA club and a life outside it isn't unreasonable thing to ask for. I think this is the part the GAA are missing."
There are at least 10 divisions for playing football in across Dublin, from about Division 4 down it is all about the craic and enjoyment of the game. The standard of soccer you are playing in Dublin is probably as close to Shamrock Rovers as Division 7 is to Ballymun seniors. Its highly unlikely you will get anyone demanding a drinking ban at that level, in soccer or GAA.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2530 - 03/03/2021 21:34:47    2333467

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I completely agree tonguey and lockjaw.
When I finished college and had to become a trainee, I decided to join a soccer club in Dublin. I toyed with joining a GAA club but decided I would play with my club at home if work allowed, which ironicially due to Covid it never worked better from a GAA front.
Once this pandemic is over, I will definitely re-join the soccer club in Dublin as I will move back. It was fun, tough training and matches in a public park but the fun and enjoyment I got from it was unreal. I made lots of great friends through it.
I thought about joining a GAA club but knew the minute I'd walk into a club there'd be every sort of hanger on milking the club and before I knew it some del boy would be sticking a team charter in under my nose to sign.
I am 100% certain, when Michael Cusack and co attended that meeting in Hayes' Hotel, that was not their vision for the GAA.
The problem is in the GAA, if one thing works for one club, then that MUST be the answer for every club. So if one club has a dietician, every club has to have one. Inevitably, this gets infiltrated with bluffers and nutritionists (which I could call myself tomorrow morning) and people who learned a bit about it for a few months, make hay on their new-fangled knowledge.
Most young people these days look after themselves, go to the gym, eat well. But at the same time, they don't need to swear undying loyalty to a GAA club and a life outside it isn't unreasonable thing to ask for. I think this is the part the GAA are missing."
Good point about clubs and teams, following what one club or team, does. I never thought diet made you a better player. It's the ability to master the skills of the game, that makes a player.
I recall in my own club, a person who was once a bank official, and former county player, coming in as a type of physio cum trainer.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 189 - 03/03/2021 22:14:31    2333468

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Replying To Soma:  "There are at least 10 divisions for playing football in across Dublin, from about Division 4 down it is all about the craic and enjoyment of the game. The standard of soccer you are playing in Dublin is probably as close to Shamrock Rovers as Division 7 is to Ballymun seniors. Its highly unlikely you will get anyone demanding a drinking ban at that level, in soccer or GAA."
Were on the threshold of the example you give. We aren't just a pub team though, we generally look after ourselves and train hard, and sometimes go for a pint or two after a match even if a game the following weekend. But it isn't portrayed as something you must give absolute commitment to and have nothing else in your life.
I think I most like the fact that it is what sport is supposed to be. Fun, a bit of craic, serious when needed but not infiltrated by every sort of mercenary being paid.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 952 - 04/03/2021 09:24:06    2333484

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Were on the threshold of the example you give. We aren't just a pub team though, we generally look after ourselves and train hard, and sometimes go for a pint or two after a match even if a game the following weekend. But it isn't portrayed as something you must give absolute commitment to and have nothing else in your life.
I think I most like the fact that it is what sport is supposed to be. Fun, a bit of craic, serious when needed but not infiltrated by every sort of mercenary being paid."
Agree 100% about paid managerial "assistants" at club level especially. Problem is at county level if you want to compete you need to prepare the same way as the other top teams. And that's filtered down to the senior clubs etc. And unfortunately that means having specialist people putting in loads of hours every week which I suppose they cant afford to do for nothing if they have day jobs or businesses and families of their own. In bigger clubs where there are several teams obviously there are teams for people who want to take it less seriously and have the craic we had years ago playing truly amateur sport. Problem in smaller parishes is there might not be the numbers to do this and then you have friction between the ultra competitive types and those who think of it more as a bit of craic. That's when you get the dirty looks and friction for having a couple of pints with the lads who are like minded. I do think it's especially wrong of supporters to judge lads badly for the pints or craic though. If they are good enough to be on whatever club or county team they are on its noone else's business if they have a few pints or not. And if the drink means they cant play at the level of that team then the manager should get someone else in. Noone else should sit in judgement.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1400 - 04/03/2021 10:48:13    2333494

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Were on the threshold of the example you give. We aren't just a pub team though, we generally look after ourselves and train hard, and sometimes go for a pint or two after a match even if a game the following weekend. But it isn't portrayed as something you must give absolute commitment to and have nothing else in your life.
I think I most like the fact that it is what sport is supposed to be. Fun, a bit of craic, serious when needed but not infiltrated by every sort of mercenary being paid."
How many would you get out watching a game with the soccer team you play for?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2530 - 04/03/2021 10:52:22    2333495

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Replying To Soma:  "How many would you get out watching a game with the soccer team you play for?"
I'd say about the same amount as they'd have out in the lower levels of Dublin gaa clubs or indeed any other county. Low level junior games usually don't set pulses racing

tonguey (Cavan) - Posts: 207 - 04/03/2021 11:04:11    2333498

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Replying To tonguey:  "I'd say about the same amount as they'd have out in the lower levels of Dublin gaa clubs or indeed any other county. Low level junior games usually don't set pulses racing"
I'd suspect the same, but far fewer at the soccer games than a senior or intermediate club football match. Sure there are loads of football and hurling teams up and down the country that train hard but also have a pint after the game and don't expect absolute commitment or to have nothing else in your life. But they are clubs 2nd or 3rd teams and play it for enjoyment with nobody watching them. If he was playing for one of the top soccer teams at amateur level in Dublin that people go to watch that club would be expecting commitment as well. We are not comparing like with like here at all, you can play football in Dublin and take it as seriously or as casual as you want, but if you want to play for the best teams then the expectation is you will take it seriously. The idea that every team turning out at the weekend to play football in Dublin has a paid coach that demands total commitment is just wrong.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2530 - 04/03/2021 11:59:17    2333505

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I'm not saying for a second that it isn't and shouldn't be taken seriously.
But I can tell you, I know some people who play in the top divisions in the league and the demands of them are nothing compared to the expectation at top level GAA as I also know what the expectation is there.
There are no easy answers to the problem though, I 100% accept that. Maybe the split season might help but there will be lads expecting GAA players to go back training in January and the 1st meaningful match in August?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 952 - 04/03/2021 16:20:35    2333519

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