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Replying To TheUsername: "Imagine this place if he had won!" Just imagine the sh1te we'd have heard from the media and Mhayo if they ever had won an All Ireland? They will never win it when they have the likes of AOS doing disappearing acts in finals, Cillian is ok on tap over frees and bending the refs ear but he has let Mayo down when it was there to be won, just not good enough at the end of the day.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 25/02/2021 21:47:12
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Replying To TheUsername: "Imagine this place if he had won!" We'd probably have Dublin and Galway posters starting up even more threads about him.
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 420 - 25/02/2021 22:19:56
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Replying To Black+Blue: "The posts on here about players stepping up in All Ireland Finals got me thinking ....so out of Covid boredom I looked up the last 10 years finals ( and replays ) to get players totals and the results were a shock....
I had the impression that C.O Connor didn't amass a big total ( seems most posters did as well )
Open to correction but Very surprisingly it seems he is neck and neck with Dean Rock ...
Dean Rock 46 points ( inc. 1 goal + 35 frees )
C. O Connor 45 points ( 36 frees )
After that it's a mixture of
B. Brogan 2 - 12 ( 7 frees )
Con O Callaghan 3-6
C. Kilkenny 0- 11
Sean O Se 0-15 ( 10 frees )
Paul Geaney 1-08
M.Murphy 1-08
A. Moran 1- 08
L. Keegan 2- 03..." Yes and to be fair you have to point out scores from play which shows he has nt a bad record at all. He played in 6 finals and Rock played in 8 finals so yes his ratio is better than Rocks in finals. Look one cant argue with statistics.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 25/02/2021 22:43:29
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Replying To yew_tree: "I won't say Cillian is a clean player although last year I didn't think he was at much off the ball stuff. Mayo were laughed at for years for being too nice and not having players who play on the edge. Anyway my point is Cillian is a scoring machine weather you like him or not personally is besides the point. He is not the reason Mayo haven't won an All Ireland yet...if he had a little more help who knows.
He is still only 28 so a few years left in him too." I'm curious to see how the likes of COC, AOS and Keegan get on in the next few years.
I know better then to ever write of Mayo, but was just looking at how long the lads have been on the road, AOS since 09, COC 11, Keegan 11, the lads have 10 campaigns under there belts, that's a lot of was games in the legs and Mayo have never had a straight forward run or handy run to the latter stages of the Championship like Dublin or Kerry!
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/02/2021 23:01:05
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just imagine the sh1te we'd have heard from the media and Mhayo if they ever had won an All Ireland? They will never win it when they have the likes of AOS doing disappearing acts in finals, Cillian is ok on tap over frees and bending the refs ear but he has let Mayo down when it was there to be won, just not good enough at the end of the day." WUMing
jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 25/02/2021 23:10:02
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Just imagine the sh1te we'd have heard from the media and Mhayo if they ever had won an All Ireland? They will never win it when they have the likes of AOS doing disappearing acts in finals, Cillian is ok on tap over frees and bending the refs ear but he has let Mayo down when it was there to be won, just not good enough at the end of the day." Well if he just wasn't good enough he could hardly be accused of letting them down could he?
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 26/02/2021 06:54:01
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Replying To Black+Blue: "The posts on here about players stepping up in All Ireland Finals got me thinking ....so out of Covid boredom I looked up the last 10 years finals ( and replays ) to get players totals and the results were a shock....
I had the impression that C.O Connor didn't amass a big total ( seems most posters did as well )
Open to correction but Very surprisingly it seems he is neck and neck with Dean Rock ...
Dean Rock 46 points ( inc. 1 goal + 35 frees )
C. O Connor 45 points ( 36 frees )
After that it's a mixture of
B. Brogan 2 - 12 ( 7 frees )
Con O Callaghan 3-6
C. Kilkenny 0- 11
Sean O Se 0-15 ( 10 frees )
Paul Geaney 1-08
M.Murphy 1-08
A. Moran 1- 08
L. Keegan 2- 03..." Is King David not on your list? He's surely scored not less than 9 points in his AI final appearances? Surely, that can't be true.
Btw, King David= David Clifford for those not in the know. Clufford is Kerry's king. It's not that puck goat up on that big high stand in Killorglin, in case any of ye thought it was.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1910 - 26/02/2021 08:53:07
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Is King David not on your list? He's surely scored not less than 9 points in his AI final appearances? Surely, that can't be true.
Btw, King David= David Clifford for those not in the know. Clufford is Kerry's king. It's not that puck goat up on that big high stand in Killorglin, in case any of ye thought it was." Well Forever I will put him on the list. Obviously he has just played in two finals 2019 and replay but he has scored 7 points (6 from play) so his ratio is higher than nearly everyone so far.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 10:46:17
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Is King David not on your list? He's surely scored not less than 9 points in his AI final appearances? Surely, that can't be true.
Btw, King David= David Clifford for those not in the know. Clufford is Kerry's king. It's not that puck goat up on that big high stand in Killorglin, in case any of ye thought it was." Although Clifford has only played in two finals his ratio from play is 3 per game. Higher than them all including Cillian and Rock. Con is showing for 3 - 6 but I'm nearly certain it's 2.6 over 5 finals.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 10:53:22
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Although Clifford has only played in two finals his ratio from play is 3 per game. Higher than them all including Cillian and Rock. Con is showing for 3 - 6 but I'm nearly certain it's 2.6 over 5 finals." 2.4*
Rocks numbers are wrong as well
From play he has 1-14
3 - (1 goal) 2020
2 - 2019 replay
3 - 2019 draw
2 - 2018
4 - 2017
1 - 2016 draw
2 - 2016 replay
Didn't score from play in 2015, or in 2013 when he was subbed on in 43rd minute. Since then though an impressive record, still a lower ppg ratio (2.03, including the 27 min of '13 final) than others but better than the original statistics posted here.
jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 26/02/2021 11:47:31
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Replying To jonjon: "2.4*
Rocks numbers are wrong as well
From play he has 1-14
3 - (1 goal) 2020
2 - 2019 replay
3 - 2019 draw
2 - 2018
4 - 2017
1 - 2016 draw
2 - 2016 replay
Didn't score from play in 2015, or in 2013 when he was subbed on in 43rd minute. Since then though an impressive record, still a lower ppg ratio (2.03, including the 27 min of '13 final) than others but better than the original statistics posted here." Well Rock played in 9 finals so his score ratio from play is 1.888 points. When one checks the stats one can be surprised. D. J. Carey they always said could nt score in finals but the stats say different.Pat Spillane played in 9 all Irelands and was never held scoreless. Players like Con Ó Callaghan Dermo Connolly Cillian Ó Connor Rock and the Gooch were all held scoreless in finals.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 12:12:05
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Not sure why people consider Cillian dirty... for sticking up for himself? I remember he did get away with punching Philly in the face in one of the games 5 or 6 years back, but Philly was dishing it out big time and it was also around the time Philly was partial to taking the odd nibble so his reputation at the time was a bit shot. I don't recall Cillian starting shenanigans and nothing dark usually goes on between himself and most markers. He bends the ref's ear a bit, that's true, but it doesn't make him dirty and a lot of good players across a lot of sports do the same (most teams have one or two)... it's just an aspect of competitiveness for some personalities.
There's a possibility that if Cillian was more popular he might have won POTY and on that basis he might never win it, since he's no Andy in that regard, but I doubt he'll lose a minute's sleep over it. His achievements are there in the stats so no votes needed!
Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 26/02/2021 12:36:59
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Fair enough lads...did say I was open to correction !!
C. O Connor has 33 frees + 0-12 from play. ( 6 Finals)
I was wrong about D. Rock...he has got 33 frees as well but has also got 1-15 from play...( 9 Finals)
C. O Callaghan has 2-06 ....1 goal from 2017 ( I thought he got 2 that day )... 0-1 from 2019 draw .... 0-4 from 2019 replay....1-1 from 2020...
Any of the above 3 would be a welcome transfer to Galway under the Granny rule !!
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 26/02/2021 12:51:58
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Replying To Pericles: "Not sure why people consider Cillian dirty... for sticking up for himself? I remember he did get away with punching Philly in the face in one of the games 5 or 6 years back, but Philly was dishing it out big time and it was also around the time Philly was partial to taking the odd nibble so his reputation at the time was a bit shot. I don't recall Cillian starting shenanigans and nothing dark usually goes on between himself and most markers. He bends the ref's ear a bit, that's true, but it doesn't make him dirty and a lot of good players across a lot of sports do the same (most teams have one or two)... it's just an aspect of competitiveness for some personalities.
There's a possibility that if Cillian was more popular he might have won POTY and on that basis he might never win it, since he's no Andy in that regard, but I doubt he'll lose a minute's sleep over it. His achievements are there in the stats so no votes needed!" Hi Pericles. I tend to agree with you on Cillian. He stands up for himself but I would nt consider him dirty persais. There are dirtier forwards playing than Cillian for sure.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 13:04:35
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Replying To Pericles: "Not sure why people consider Cillian dirty... for sticking up for himself? I remember he did get away with punching Philly in the face in one of the games 5 or 6 years back, but Philly was dishing it out big time and it was also around the time Philly was partial to taking the odd nibble so his reputation at the time was a bit shot. I don't recall Cillian starting shenanigans and nothing dark usually goes on between himself and most markers. He bends the ref's ear a bit, that's true, but it doesn't make him dirty and a lot of good players across a lot of sports do the same (most teams have one or two)... it's just an aspect of competitiveness for some personalities.
There's a possibility that if Cillian was more popular he might have won POTY and on that basis he might never win it, since he's no Andy in that regard, but I doubt he'll lose a minute's sleep over it. His achievements are there in the stats so no votes needed!" It's a mans (except for women's games) game as far as I'm concerned, if you give lumps, you have to be able to take them and if you fall the wrong side of the ref take the consequences on the chin. Everyone's at it and if you have ambitions to win all Ireland's you need it. Personally I'd hate to GAA go the way of soccer, slight contact and fall to the ground as if a sniper was in the stand.
Punditry doesn't help and magnifying stuff from all angles in SLO mo, then jump up on a moral high horse, when said pundit was as gamey as they come.
Some lads just get a reputation. I remember speaking to an opposition fan on a train coming back from a match, they were telling me Diarmuid Connolly was a filthy player, I challenged them to name one instance of on the field foul play that wasn't pricked, they couldn't. Dermo had a big weakness for getting rolled and reacting, but instigating foul playi I never saw, not once.
Those reputations are out there though, Cillian has it, I know he got a lot of negative feedback from Dubs for the foul and nature of it that led to his sending off in the semi in 19, that will stick. I think it's why young David out Killarney direction needs to reign in the temperament a bit, no doubt he gets battered, but if he doesn't learn not to react he will go the way of Dermo and Cillian reputation wise. You compare him to young Sean O Shea in the first game of the 19 final. He made a professional foul out in the corner in the dying mins to give away an impossible free, it was cynical but worthwhile for his team when they were in the ropes. Sean won't be labbled for that, but young David will be if he keeps going bald headed after umpires like he did in the league this year.
It's a funny old game.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/02/2021 13:04:44
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Replying To TheUsername: "It's a mans (except for women's games) game as far as I'm concerned, if you give lumps, you have to be able to take them and if you fall the wrong side of the ref take the consequences on the chin. Everyone's at it and if you have ambitions to win all Ireland's you need it. Personally I'd hate to GAA go the way of soccer, slight contact and fall to the ground as if a sniper was in the stand.
Punditry doesn't help and magnifying stuff from all angles in SLO mo, then jump up on a moral high horse, when said pundit was as gamey as they come.
Some lads just get a reputation. I remember speaking to an opposition fan on a train coming back from a match, they were telling me Diarmuid Connolly was a filthy player, I challenged them to name one instance of on the field foul play that wasn't pricked, they couldn't. Dermo had a big weakness for getting rolled and reacting, but instigating foul playi I never saw, not once.
Those reputations are out there though, Cillian has it, I know he got a lot of negative feedback from Dubs for the foul and nature of it that led to his sending off in the semi in 19, that will stick. I think it's why young David out Killarney direction needs to reign in the temperament a bit, no doubt he gets battered, but if he doesn't learn not to react he will go the way of Dermo and Cillian reputation wise. You compare him to young Sean O Shea in the first game of the 19 final. He made a professional foul out in the corner in the dying mins to give away an impossible free, it was cynical but worthwhile for his team when they were in the ropes. Sean won't be labbled for that, but young David will be if he keeps going bald headed after umpires like he did in the league this year.
It's a funny old game." Interesting points Username. I agree in yes give a dog a bad name and all that. On Diarmuid Connolly I would agree he was a victim of his reputation but he did carry out a reckless assault in an Ó Byrne cup game years ago v Ciarán Fitzpatrick of Kildare which is on YouTube. However since then most of his cards were for minor incidents and mainly through provocation. However sometimes he could be silly. On Clifford I would have to agree with you he will have to tone things down a bit and stick with his football ability.What is a dirty player? For me it can be someone non stop fouling when ref not looking but also you have certain players that can be filthy putting opponents welfare in danger. Any player that purposely tries to ko another player with a knee or boot is filthy imo or the one that really gets me is falling on an opponent with your knees as if twas an accident. I must admit though I would nt put down as a real dirty player. Cranky yes but not dirty.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 14:00:05
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Replying To TheUsername: "It's a mans (except for women's games) game as far as I'm concerned, if you give lumps, you have to be able to take them and if you fall the wrong side of the ref take the consequences on the chin. Everyone's at it and if you have ambitions to win all Ireland's you need it. Personally I'd hate to GAA go the way of soccer, slight contact and fall to the ground as if a sniper was in the stand.
Punditry doesn't help and magnifying stuff from all angles in SLO mo, then jump up on a moral high horse, when said pundit was as gamey as they come.
Some lads just get a reputation. I remember speaking to an opposition fan on a train coming back from a match, they were telling me Diarmuid Connolly was a filthy player, I challenged them to name one instance of on the field foul play that wasn't pricked, they couldn't. Dermo had a big weakness for getting rolled and reacting, but instigating foul playi I never saw, not once.
Those reputations are out there though, Cillian has it, I know he got a lot of negative feedback from Dubs for the foul and nature of it that led to his sending off in the semi in 19, that will stick. I think it's why young David out Killarney direction needs to reign in the temperament a bit, no doubt he gets battered, but if he doesn't learn not to react he will go the way of Dermo and Cillian reputation wise. You compare him to young Sean O Shea in the first game of the 19 final. He made a professional foul out in the corner in the dying mins to give away an impossible free, it was cynical but worthwhile for his team when they were in the ropes. Sean won't be labbled for that, but young David will be if he keeps going bald headed after umpires like he did in the league this year.
It's a funny old game." I would agree that Connolly was provoked most of the time but the incident against Kildare was shocking. And when you throw in the off the field stuff, one very public incident than it's hard to defend him when people have that opinion of him.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7895 - 26/02/2021 14:50:59
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Interesting points Username. I agree in yes give a dog a bad name and all that. On Diarmuid Connolly I would agree he was a victim of his reputation but he did carry out a reckless assault in an Ó Byrne cup game years ago v Ciarán Fitzpatrick of Kildare which is on YouTube. However since then most of his cards were for minor incidents and mainly through provocation. However sometimes he could be silly. On Clifford I would have to agree with you he will have to tone things down a bit and stick with his football ability.What is a dirty player? For me it can be someone non stop fouling when ref not looking but also you have certain players that can be filthy putting opponents welfare in danger. Any player that purposely tries to ko another player with a knee or boot is filthy imo or the one that really gets me is falling on an opponent with your knees as if twas an accident. I must admit though I would nt put down as a real dirty player. Cranky yes but not dirty." I meant to say I would nt put Cillian Ó Connor down as a dirty player. Cranky yes but dirty no.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 14:55:44
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Well Rock played in 9 finals so his score ratio from play is 1.888 points. When one checks the stats one can be surprised. D. J. Carey they always said could nt score in finals but the stats say different.Pat Spillane played in 9 all Irelands and was never held scoreless. Players like Con Ó Callaghan Dermo Connolly Cillian Ó Connor Rock and the Gooch were all held scoreless in finals." What final was the Gooch held scoreless on? 2009 v Cork maybe? Can't think of one off hand.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 26/02/2021 20:32:29
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Replying To Galway9801: "What final was the Gooch held scoreless on? 2009 v Cork maybe? Can't think of one off hand." 2015 v Dublin. Philly Mcmahon held him scoreless and scored a point himself. Gooch scored in all other finals he played 04 05 06 07 08 09 and 11..
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 26/02/2021 21:14:12
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