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Biggest problem in GAA is that most fans (and probably a lot of players) dont know the rules. For example, there was a lot of criticism of Fergal Horgan this year by some Galway fans (I think it might have been the Leinster hurling final) when Conor Cooney's hurley was held by an opposing defender thus preventing him scoring a certain goal. A free was awarded but the ref did not issue a card for the offence and was highly criticised for not doing so. But it was revealed later that it was not a bookable offence according to the rulebook so the referee was right all along!
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 08/02/2021 19:29:41
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Replying To Viking66: "Also remember top rugby refs are full time professionals" Some are. Many are not and still work other jobs.
Wayne Barnes is a barrister.
Only very recently that IRFU have had full time pros. Most before that worked wide range of jobs such as development officer, teachers,
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 08/02/2021 19:55:01
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Replying To Viking66: "Johnny Sexton strongly disagrees with you. The fact that he had anything to say on the subject at all says it all because as you say rugby players dont usually give out about the ref. Barnes isnt a great ref." Barnes is one of the best in the world right now.
He is most certainly a great ref
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 08/02/2021 20:42:48
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There's a big difference in playing for your parish pride in gaa than playing for a rugby association of players from all around the world. It doesn't mean as much to them. There's also very little criticism of violence on a rugby field too or indiscipline in the media, some of the players are nearly sainted. That red card incident in the Wales game was brutal.
The GAA has discipline problems sometimes, but consider the thousands of matches that are normally played at all levels every weekend, one chaotic game can take the whole attention.
At inter county level there seems to be a creeping development of refs thinking they are more important than the game and almost becoming celebrities, specifically in football, shouldn't happen. We don't need to know a refs opinion on anything except on the field. I would argue the ref should be mic'd up for championship games too to let us know exactly what they are saying to players and how they came to a decision.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 08/02/2021 22:10:20
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Replying To Dubsfan28: " Replying To munstermaniac71: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
When you say indiscipline are you just referring to red card or in general?
You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4335 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
It would be no harm to have extra help for officials but changing rules and working far more to help all officials and how everyone treats them would be a start
Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 845 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35 Refs are taught in rugby to explain decisions and work with players. Does that happen in GAA? Fans, players, coaches all dont in general work with/treat officials with respect.
is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1963 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
Rugby isnt that much slower and yes the offside law and how many players will be closer helps in some cases but GAA refs in hurling/gaelic should be able to explain decisions to players far more than they currently do.
Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6956 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
Why so negative? Why not discuss the issue rather than post this type of post
I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
Players dont surround ref much because its drilled into them from a young age.
I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1200 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
Rugby is not at all these days about power trumping skill. The most successful side in international rugby is New Zealand and while they have many powerful players they are so dominant because they are the most skillful and innovative the majority of time." Ormond?"
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2021 00:09:45
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Biggest problem in GAA is that most fans (and probably a lot of players) dont know the rules. For example, there was a lot of criticism of Fergal Horgan this year by some Galway fans (I think it might have been the Leinster hurling final) when Conor Cooney's hurley was held by an opposing defender thus preventing him scoring a certain goal. A free was awarded but the ref did not issue a card for the offence and was highly criticised for not doing so. But it was revealed later that it was not a bookable offence according to the rulebook so the referee was right all along!" It's a rule that needs to be revised. It was highly cynical play and it paid off.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2021 00:12:58
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Wayne Barnes is the lad who wasn't great at rugby so his revenge was to become a ref who loves the sound of his own voice.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 09/02/2021 09:51:28
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Wayne Barnes is the lad who wasn't great at rugby so his revenge was to become a ref who loves the sound of his own voice." He's like you as you love the sound of your own voice.
He's an excellent ref. No way can you question that. If you are questioning that then you know little about rugby
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 09/02/2021 10:06:39
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Replying To KillingFields: "He's like you as you love the sound of your own voice.
He's an excellent ref. No way can you question that. If you are questioning that then you know little about rugby" You should get your other 2 usernames to back up your point of view. At least then 2 people will agree with you.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 09/02/2021 10:44:16
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Replying To TheFlaker: "You should get your other 2 usernames to back up your point of view. At least then 2 people will agree with you." Bitter as always.
If you cant see that Wayne Barnes is one of the best refs in the world you show that you have zero knowledge on rugby.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 09/02/2021 11:57:57
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I was very impressed by the club in Waterford accepting their punishment (losing a county title is no small punishment) over the C19 breach. It must be a Waterford thing because as I remember John Mullane accepted his medicine when he was suspended for a big game and would not entertain thoughts of an injunction (which were all the rage at the time).
Generally the predominant attitude in GAA is that rules are for the others. You can see it on the comments on any thread. People do not address the issue but use "whataboutary" as an argument.
The Cork and Down managers are appealing their punishment. They know and we all know they broke the spirit of the rule but they also know that maybe it is not a rule as such and maybe there is a way around it etc etc. If they get off they should be ashamed of themselves. None of us are perfect and we push the boundaries from time to time but in the cold light of day they should hold their hands up. Mayo took their punishment (would they if it was more the team manager - we don't know).
Part of the whole culture, and someone else mentioned it, is referees not explaining decisions, suspensions being done or not done behind closed doors. This all leads to suspicion and perception of favoritism. I regard myself as rational and not a conspiracy theorist but even I believe that foul play highlighted on the Sunday Game will get dealt with but if the Sunday game ignore it so will the disciplinary people. Maybe I am completely wrong but it is bourn out of the lack of transparency. This all leads to people arguing for everything, never give an inch even when you are obviously in the wrong.
Justice must not only be done but be seen to be done. That is the only way to change a culture, but it is a long road.
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1835 - 09/02/2021 12:57:39
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Replying To republicofcloone: "There's a big difference in playing for your parish pride in gaa than playing for a rugby association of players from all around the world. It doesn't mean as much to them. There's also very little criticism of violence on a rugby field too or indiscipline in the media, some of the players are nearly sainted. That red card incident in the Wales game was brutal.
The GAA has discipline problems sometimes, but consider the thousands of matches that are normally played at all levels every weekend, one chaotic game can take the whole attention.
At inter county level there seems to be a creeping development of refs thinking they are more important than the game and almost becoming celebrities, specifically in football, shouldn't happen. We don't need to know a refs opinion on anything except on the field. I would argue the ref should be mic'd up for championship games too to let us know exactly what they are saying to players and how they came to a decision." Are you having a laugh, it doesn't come any bigger than playing for your country? Also looks at the great Munster Teams of the past, they had as much pride as any club or county player, and would have died for that jersey.
gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 170 - 09/02/2021 13:35:10
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Replying To KillingFields: "Bitter as always.
If you cant see that Wayne Barnes is one of the best refs in the world you show that you have zero knowledge on rugby." Cant agree about Barnes. And I played rugby for more than 15 years. He is ok but far from 1 of the best in the world.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12045 - 09/02/2021 16:21:18
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Replying To gilly1910: "Are you having a laugh, it doesn't come any bigger than playing for your country? Also looks at the great Munster Teams of the past, they had as much pride as any club or county player, and would have died for that jersey." And Galway trying to be the new Limerick.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1059 - 09/02/2021 16:31:05
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Replying To gilly1910: "Are you having a laugh, it doesn't come any bigger than playing for your country? Also looks at the great Munster Teams of the past, they had as much pride as any club or county player, and would have died for that jersey." I think he is referring to the players who qualify to play for Ireland under the residency rule gilly1910. It's known as Regulation 8. It is a dreadful and much abused rule which is diluting iinternational rugby. Governing associations can recruit "project players" who after 36 months playing in that country become naturalised for the purposes of playing international rugby. The IRFU have shown themselves to be as willing as anybody when it comes to utilising the rule. Vested interests came together and pushed back the date when a reformed rule extending the term of residency to five years will come into effect. That won't happen now until Dec 31st 2021. The established rugby playing nations particularly those in the Southern Hemisphere have always been adept at cherry picking the talent of the smaller associations
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/02/2021 16:54:01
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Cant agree about Barnes. And I played rugby for more than 15 years. He is ok but far from 1 of the best in the world.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1328 - 09/02/2021 16:21:18How is he not?
reffed at 4 world cups. Only one of the very best can do that.
His approach to games is very good. consistent and 99% of time gets decisions right.
There's a big difference in playing for your parish pride in gaa than playing for a rugby association of players from all around the world. It doesn't mean as much to them. There's also very little criticism of violence on a rugby field too or indiscipline in the media, some of the players are nearly sainted. That red card incident in the Wales game was brutal.
The GAA has discipline problems sometimes, but consider the thousands of matches that are normally played at all levels every weekend, one chaotic game can take the whole attention.
At inter county level there seems to be a creeping development of refs thinking they are more important than the game and almost becoming celebrities, specifically in football, shouldn't happen. We don't need to know a refs opinion on anything except on the field. I would argue the ref should be mic'd up for championship games too to let us know exactly what they are saying to players and how they came to a decision.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 259 - 08/02/2021 22:10:20 It most certainly means as much to the players.
there is always discussion of indiscipline in the media. Look at all the talk since that red card.
The GAA has much bigger discipline issues. Look at how refs are treated look at the way the rule book is written and managed.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 09/02/2021 17:09:42
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Replying To Viking66: "Cant agree about Barnes. And I played rugby for more than 15 years. He is ok but far from 1 of the best in the world." There isnt many refs better than him.
He has had a very strict definition of some areas of law but players and coaches got used to it.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 09/02/2021 17:30:05
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Replying To Greengrass: "I think he is referring to the players who qualify to play for Ireland under the residency rule gilly1910. It's known as Regulation 8. It is a dreadful and much abused rule which is diluting iinternational rugby. Governing associations can recruit "project players" who after 36 months playing in that country become naturalised for the purposes of playing international rugby. The IRFU have shown themselves to be as willing as anybody when it comes to utilising the rule. Vested interests came together and pushed back the date when a reformed rule extending the term of residency to five years will come into effect. That won't happen now until Dec 31st 2021. The established rugby playing nations particularly those in the Southern Hemisphere have always been adept at cherry picking the talent of the smaller associations" I believe the northern hemisphere teams are bigger culprits in this regard. There have been many fingers pointed at New Zealand for taking players from the Pacific Islands. While there have been some, mainly from Fiji to play for the All Blacks having moved as adults for rugby reasons, the vast majority of their team were either born in New Zealand or have lived there since they were very young. They weren't 'project players', as many European sides have brought over. France have been particularly guilty of using residency players over the past decade, but they seem to be re-focusing on local talent again and are reaping the rewards.
I agree completely that the 3 year residency rule was and still is terrible. Although it seems like an eternity compared to Seanie Johnston's 1 hour residency in Kildare. ;)
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2046 - 11/02/2021 00:20:06
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I think he is referring to the players who qualify to play for Ireland under the residency rule gilly1910. It's known as Regulation 8. It is a dreadful and much abused rule which is diluting iinternational rugby. Governing associations can recruit "project players" who after 36 months playing in that country become naturalised for the purposes of playing international rugby. The IRFU have shown themselves to be as willing as anybody when it comes to utilising the rule. Vested interests came together and pushed back the date when a reformed rule extending the term of residency to five years will come into effect. That won't happen now until Dec 31st 2021. The established rugby playing nations particularly those in the Southern Hemisphere have always been adept at cherry picking the talent of the smaller associations
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5231 - 09/02/2021 16:54:01
It happens in all sports.. It isnt a dreadful rule because you can never restrict sport to those born or with parents from a country considering the way the world is now and how people move so much and can have ties to a country.
The qualifying period is now 5 years not 3 and its in effect already so all players now have to qualify for 5 years and thats been the case since the start of 2019. All who started their qualifying period in 2018 or earlier had to qualify for 3 years and anyone later have had to qualify 5 years.
The southern hemisphere big 3 dont cherry pick that many to be fair and in fact far more players born in new zealand, australia who have pacific island heritage play for fiji, tonga etc than the other way round
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 11/02/2021 11:46:25
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biggest thing he did for me was o mahony just walked straight off.
but it is easy for the ref when he can see it again without a baying mob of players around him.
gaa is reffed on sentiment,intent and history.
rugby is refereed on a duty of care to the opponent.
but i have also said for a long time,if there is an off the ball incident which a 4th official thinks the referee should see,in a big game where there is tv evidence,it is not bloody well time we helped the referee out?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 11/02/2021 15:04:45
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