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Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
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Replying To gahfan: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches." You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
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Replying To gahfan: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches." Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35
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Replying To essmac: "Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players." is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2845 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
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Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
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I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
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I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1915 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
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Remember the richie hogan sending off though and all the rubbish we had to listen to from management, kilkenny analysts, supporters.
We have an ambivalent attitude towards discipline in the gaa.
Or look at the discussion around the black card and hurling.
Rugby obviously instil a respect from a young age. We should try to do the same.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 08/02/2021 13:35:13
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Replying To gahfan: "I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it." The ref said play on when the incident happened, it as only after video reviews that the offence was spotted for what it was, as obvious a red card as you will see in the sport. You could say great, let's bring video replays into GAA so, but then Ireland were complaining at the end of the game that a Wales player should have been red carded as well. Soccer was demanding VAR for years but now a lot of people in the game are sorry it was ever introduced, fans need to be careful what they wish for.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 08/02/2021 13:35:58
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Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
When you say indiscipline are you just referring to red card or in general?
You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4335 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
It would be no harm to have extra help for officials but changing rules and working far more to help all officials and how everyone treats them would be a start
Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 845 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35 Refs are taught in rugby to explain decisions and work with players. Does that happen in GAA? Fans, players, coaches all dont in general work with/treat officials with respect.
is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1963 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
Rugby isnt that much slower and yes the offside law and how many players will be closer helps in some cases but GAA refs in hurling/gaelic should be able to explain decisions to players far more than they currently do.
Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6956 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
Why so negative? Why not discuss the issue rather than post this type of post
I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
Players dont surround ref much because its drilled into them from a young age.
I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1200 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
Rugby is not at all these days about power trumping skill. The most successful side in international rugby is New Zealand and while they have many powerful players they are so dominant because they are the most skillful and innovative the majority of time.
munstermaniac71 (Galway) - Posts: 15 - 08/02/2021 13:42:34
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Replying To gahfan: "I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it." Like other posters have said, it's not an apples to apples comparison, especially in hurling when you have play moving from one end of the field to the other so quickly. Most controversial incidents are off the ball, and usually not so clear cut.
But I will say, I mostly agree with your last point. If we want the rules applied consistently, we have to allow the referees to apply the rules consistently. And blaming the refs for killing the game when they are just applying the rules, is something we should try and move away from.
Also, I do also get annoyed when commentators bring up a players "great disciplinary record" (he's not usually a dirty player etc), as a mitigating factor when a player gets sent off. They're getting sent off for the foul they committed in that instance, not for their general behavior going back to under 12's. That kind of thing is a bit silly, in fairness.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 08/02/2021 13:48:29
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Like other posters have said, it's not an apples to apples comparison, especially in hurling when you have play moving from one end of the field to the other so quickly. Most controversial incidents are off the ball, and usually not so clear cut.
But I will say, I mostly agree with your last point. If we want the rules applied consistently, we have to allow the referees to apply the rules consistently. And blaming the refs for killing the game when they are just applying the rules, is something we should try and move away from.
Also, I do also get annoyed when commentators bring up a players "great disciplinary record" (he's not usually a dirty player etc), as a mitigating factor when a player gets sent off. They're getting sent off for the foul they committed in that instance, not for their general behavior going back to under 12's. That kind of thing is a bit silly, in fairness." Plus when a commentator says "it was totally accidental" when a player injures another in a tackle.
How does he know?
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1721 - 08/02/2021 14:17:49
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GAA has improved a lot in terms of giving out to refs - particularly the players. Any abuse generally comes from the line.
You can't compare reffing rugby and GAA - much slower game and they have the benefit of TMO. TMO would not work in GAA as would slow down the game too much.
It was interesting to hear the conversations between players and ref on the Fergal Horgan documentary. There was also one done on a Dublin football All Ireland. In general I thought there was pretty good conversation between players and ref. You have to remember also it is heat of battle and adreline is flowing.
Soccer players are a disgrace the way they surround refs at every opportunity I don't know how the refs hold their cool.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 378 - 08/02/2021 14:33:03
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Replying To hopballref: "GAA has improved a lot in terms of giving out to refs - particularly the players. Any abuse generally comes from the line.
You can't compare reffing rugby and GAA - much slower game and they have the benefit of TMO. TMO would not work in GAA as would slow down the game too much.
It was interesting to hear the conversations between players and ref on the Fergal Horgan documentary. There was also one done on a Dublin football All Ireland. In general I thought there was pretty good conversation between players and ref. You have to remember also it is heat of battle and adreline is flowing.
Soccer players are a disgrace the way they surround refs at every opportunity I don't know how the refs hold their cool." Yea was it the fergal horgan doc where the players afterwards complained that they weren't told he aas miked up.
A couple of high profile players seemed to think that they were reffing the game as well as playing it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 08/02/2021 14:57:02
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Replying To munstermaniac71: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
When you say indiscipline are you just referring to red card or in general?
You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4335 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
It would be no harm to have extra help for officials but changing rules and working far more to help all officials and how everyone treats them would be a start
Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 845 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35 Refs are taught in rugby to explain decisions and work with players. Does that happen in GAA? Fans, players, coaches all dont in general work with/treat officials with respect.
is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1963 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
Rugby isnt that much slower and yes the offside law and how many players will be closer helps in some cases but GAA refs in hurling/gaelic should be able to explain decisions to players far more than they currently do.
Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6956 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
Why so negative? Why not discuss the issue rather than post this type of post
I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
Players dont surround ref much because its drilled into them from a young age.
I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1200 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
Rugby is not at all these days about power trumping skill. The most successful side in international rugby is New Zealand and while they have many powerful players they are so dominant because they are the most skillful and innovative the majority of time." Ormond?
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 08/02/2021 15:30:02
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Like other posters have said, it's not an apples to apples comparison, especially in hurling when you have play moving from one end of the field to the other so quickly. Most controversial incidents are off the ball, and usually not so clear cut.
But I will say, I mostly agree with your last point. If we want the rules applied consistently, we have to allow the referees to apply the rules consistently. And blaming the refs for killing the game when they are just applying the rules, is something we should try and move away from.
Also, I do also get annoyed when commentators bring up a players "great disciplinary record" (he's not usually a dirty player etc), as a mitigating factor when a player gets sent off. They're getting sent off for the foul they committed in that instance, not for their general behavior going back to under 12's. That kind of thing is a bit silly, in fairness." Or the saying from commentators " I know him and he wouldn't do that" when he just did.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2017 - 08/02/2021 16:56:20
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Replying To Dubsfan28: " Replying To munstermaniac71: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
When you say indiscipline are you just referring to red card or in general?
You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4335 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
It would be no harm to have extra help for officials but changing rules and working far more to help all officials and how everyone treats them would be a start
Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 845 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35 Refs are taught in rugby to explain decisions and work with players. Does that happen in GAA? Fans, players, coaches all dont in general work with/treat officials with respect.
is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1963 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
Rugby isnt that much slower and yes the offside law and how many players will be closer helps in some cases but GAA refs in hurling/gaelic should be able to explain decisions to players far more than they currently do.
Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6956 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
Why so negative? Why not discuss the issue rather than post this type of post
I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
Players dont surround ref much because its drilled into them from a young age.
I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1200 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
Rugby is not at all these days about power trumping skill. The most successful side in international rugby is New Zealand and while they have many powerful players they are so dominant because they are the most skillful and innovative the majority of time." Ormond?"
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 08/02/2021 17:16:51
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Replying To cavanman47: " Replying To Dubsfan28: "[quote=munstermaniac71: "Was anyone else struck with how the indiscipline was handled in the rugby match against wales towards how it is in gaa matches.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 08:55:10
When you say indiscipline are you just referring to red card or in general?
You'll have to expand on what you're asking as it isn't a direct comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Peter O'Mahoney's red card.
Well the ref waved play on in real time. It was when the TMO suggested he needed to review it that he (rightly) issued the red card.
Are you suggesting we need a similar facility in the GAA?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4335 - 08/02/2021 09:51:42
It would be no harm to have extra help for officials but changing rules and working far more to help all officials and how everyone treats them would be a start
Didn't watch it; what did you notice? Generally, any rugby games I've watched, the big difference for me has been the refs, who seem less partisan than our refs, and they are more inclined to explain a decision. Our refs would consider it a humiliation if they had to explain anything to the players.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 845 - 08/02/2021 10:19:35 Refs are taught in rugby to explain decisions and work with players. Does that happen in GAA? Fans, players, coaches all dont in general work with/treat officials with respect.
is it also rugby refs have more time to explain things, things are happening at a much slower pace, if gaa refs stopped play 5/10/15 times during a game to explain a call to players, there would be uproar on the line and in the stand, it weouild suit defenders,
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1963 - 08/02/2021 11:06:53
Rugby isnt that much slower and yes the offside law and how many players will be closer helps in some cases but GAA refs in hurling/gaelic should be able to explain decisions to players far more than they currently do.
Let's also compare apples and oranges while we are here.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6956 - 08/02/2021 11:35:39
Why so negative? Why not discuss the issue rather than post this type of post
I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 08/02/2021 12:14:12
Players dont surround ref much because its drilled into them from a young age.
I don't like comparing sports as all sports are different in terms of the flow of play. For example, you couldn't referee a game of hurling in the same way that you referee a game of rugby. I do think that GAA players are getting better in terms of not abusing referees, at least at intercounty level. And in fairness to players, most players these days focus more on playing the game than playing the man as in the past. Personally, I think that the lack of an edge in the game has affected it as spectacle. The rivalries that once existed between clubs and counties is a thing of the past, some would say that it is for the better as the rivalries contributed to people potentially being badly injured which no one wants but at the same time I miss that bit of an edge that existed in matches in the past. Rugby is more a game of attrition these days where power trumps skill.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1200 - 08/02/2021 12:43:04
Rugby is not at all these days about power trumping skill. The most successful side in international rugby is New Zealand and while they have many powerful players they are so dominant because they are the most skillful and innovative the majority of time." Ormond?"
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3512 - 08/02/2021 17:36:59
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Replying To gahfan: "I was impressed for so many reasons.
In the rugby......
1. No irish players surrounded the ref pleading with him.
2. Everyone was calm.
3. The correct decision was arrived at.
4. The player accepted the decision.
5. Management accepted the decision.
6. The irish commentators and analysts accepted the decision.
7. No talk of ruining the game, that he ruined it as a spectacle, that they are taking the manliness out of the game, of the player's great disciplinary record etc.
We could learn a lot from it." Johnny Sexton strongly disagrees with you. The fact that he had anything to say on the subject at all says it all because as you say rugby players dont usually give out about the ref. Barnes isnt a great ref.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12045 - 08/02/2021 18:25:09
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Replying To gahfan: "Yea was it the fergal horgan doc where the players afterwards complained that they weren't told he aas miked up.
A couple of high profile players seemed to think that they were reffing the game as well as playing it." Also remember top rugby refs are full time professionals
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12045 - 08/02/2021 18:27:55
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