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Replying To essmac: "It's a good list, albeit I'd, with my local hat on, favour Stevie O'Neill or Peter McGinnity or Michael Murphy over Tomkins, but I often wonder what's the point of any of these lists - inevitably, in some cases, you're leaving out people as good as you've put on. It's not always the case that, out of 2 or 3 great players, one is "better" - there's maybe not a cigarette paper between them in terms of quality, and so you're just flipping a coin or going with who you have seen more of on you tube.
It's also a strange list that can leave out a leader of men like Mick O'Connell (the man I'd want to have as captain on any all time 15), and leave out Tyrone's greatest ever natural talent, Frank McGuigan. I saw him and Canavan both, on numerous occasions over many years; and it's very clear to me that, while Canavan was brilliant, and did stuff on a pitch that would have you rubbing your eyes in disbelief one minute and laughing out loud the next, McGuigan still was that wee bit better again. Of course, McGuigan spent his best years in the States, had a bad accident, shone mainly in club and in "un-refereed" 1970s Ulster county matches where the refereeing rule seemed to be "no blood, no free" lol, which rarely were on the national radar, didn't contribute near as much to the county as Canavan did, etc, and I fully accept all that.
And do you judge people by their raw talent / natural skills, or do you rate them by longevity and trophies won?
Someone, for instance, may have had a chaotic personal life, hitting the bottle etc, and/or played or a weaker county. But for whatever short while they were at their peak, they may have been brilliant, the equal of anyone. But because they then hit the bottle, or emigrated, or drifted out of the game, or were with a county that never won anything, they'll just be forever off the radar. (In the soccer, a prime example is G Best, who was for my money, an outrageous talent, easily in a world top 5, but because he played for a joke team like the North and drunk himself into the ground and quit the game young, he's never nowadays mentioned in any international ranking of soccer greats.)
Although I'm pleased to see a good representation from the Kerry 70s-80s team. If you had that team, fed, watered and coached to modern standards, they'd clean up even today. In my opinion!
I'd also love to see a county top 15 for each county, to give us all a better idea of the overlooked and forgotten greats in each county, as voted for by people in that county only. Although I'd say there'd be serious disagreements in drawing up any county top 15 list : )" Here is my starting 15 players that I would pick from the All Stars era. Only one Louth player has ever received an All Star and that's the great Paddy Keenan.
1. Gerry Farrell
2. Aidan Wiseman
3. Leslie Toal
4. Stephen Melia
5. Danny Nugent
6. Jimmy Mulroy
7. Razor Finnegan
8. Paddy Keenan
9. Seamus O Hanlon
10. Benny Gaughran
11. Muckle Mc Keown
12. Liam Leech
13. Stefan White
14. Colin Kelly
15. JP Rooney
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 785 - 18/02/2021 16:18:03
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In response to essmac to name the best 15 from my own county and based on players I have seen
1 Cormac O'Sullivan (Michael McQuillan)
2 Robbie O'Malley (Mark O'Reilly)
3 Darren Fay (Mick Lyons)
4 Terry Ferguson
5 Graham Geraghty
6
7 Martin O'Connell (Pat Reynolds/ Paddy Reynolds)
8 John McDermott (Liam Hayes)
9 Gerry McEntee
10 David Beggy (Evan Kelly)
11 Trevor Giles (Ken Rennicks)
12 Tommy Dowd
13 Colm O'Rourke (Stephen Bray)
14 Brian Stafford (Brendan Reilly/Mattie Kerrigan)
15 Bernard Flynn (Ollie Murphy)
That's all of Meath's all stars i know off. We've never had an all star CHB strangely. Few guys have been selected in multiple positions O'Rourke, Geragthy, Giles, Dowd.
And i believe the Reynolds's were the first (possibly only) father and son to win an all star in the same position at 7 Left Wing Back
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 18/02/2021 16:44:26
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Replying To mickcunningham: "i would have to include john mcdermott of meath" I did Mick
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 17:07:27
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Replying To Greengrass: "That's a serious list Mick. I'll add a couple more if you don't mind. I know it wasn't his natural position but Michael Donnellan did brilliantly in the middle for Galway. He was significantly better than Brian Talty. In Louth Paddy Keenan would be looked upon as being a much more complete footballer than Seamus O Hanlon. Liam Hayes is deserving of mention. Paul McGrane is another. Seánie Walsh played in the middle to great effect. Colm McElarney, Eugene McKenna, Shea Fahy, Neil Gallagher and the brilliant Seán Cavanagh are others." Sure we're great players
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 17:08:50
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Replying To Ollie2: "Here is my starting 15 players that I would pick from the All Stars era. Only one Louth player has ever received an All Star and that's the great Paddy Keenan.
1. Gerry Farrell
2. Aidan Wiseman
3. Leslie Toal
4. Stephen Melia
5. Danny Nugent
6. Jimmy Mulroy
7. Razor Finnegan
8. Paddy Keenan
9. Seamus O Hanlon
10. Benny Gaughran
11. Muckle Mc Keown
12. Liam Leech
13. Stefan White
14. Colin Kelly
15. JP Rooney" Stefan White was some operator.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 17:10:20
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Replying To brian: "In response to essmac to name the best 15 from my own county and based on players I have seen
1 Cormac O'Sullivan (Michael McQuillan)
2 Robbie O'Malley (Mark O'Reilly)
3 Darren Fay (Mick Lyons)
4 Terry Ferguson
5 Graham Geraghty
6
7 Martin O'Connell (Pat Reynolds/ Paddy Reynolds)
8 John McDermott (Liam Hayes)
9 Gerry McEntee
10 David Beggy (Evan Kelly)
11 Trevor Giles (Ken Rennicks)
12 Tommy Dowd
13 Colm O'Rourke (Stephen Bray)
14 Brian Stafford (Brendan Reilly/Mattie Kerrigan)
15 Bernard Flynn (Ollie Murphy)
That's all of Meath's all stars i know off. We've never had an all star CHB strangely. Few guys have been selected in multiple positions O'Rourke, Geragthy, Giles, Dowd.
And i believe the Reynolds's were the first (possibly only) father and son to win an all star in the same position at 7 Left Wing Back" Yeah but you can just pick best Neath team in your opinion. Liam Harnan was one tough Centre back. However if I was picking my best Meath team I remember I'd have to have Mick Lyons so I'd slot Fay in centre back. I'd go for. C. Ó Sullivan. 2.M.Reilly.3.M.Lyons.4.R.O Malley. 5.Geraghty 6.D.Fay.7.M.O Connell. 8. J. McDermott. 9.G.McEntee.10.T.Giles.11.C.oRourke.12.T.Dowd.13.O.Murphy.14.B.Stafford.15.B.Flynn.Subs.M.McQuillan.D.Beggy.J.Cassells. L Hayes. L. Harnan. CCoyle. G. O Reilly. B. Reilly. T. Ferguson. J. Sheridan.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 17:26:12
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Here goes with my All time Donegal team. I'm only basing it on players I've seen. If you ask me the same question in a week's time I'd probably pick a different team.
1. Paul Durcan
2. Damien Diver
3. Neil McGee
4. Barry McGowan
5. Frank McGlynn
6.Karl Lacey
7. Kevin Cassidy
8. Neil Gallagher
9. Anthony Molloy
10. Martin McHugh
11. Michael Murphy
12. Michael Hegarty
13. Adrian Sweeney
14. Tony Boyle
15. Colm McFadden" Great team. I myself would have Jim McGuinness instead of Hegarty and maybe Brendan Devanney in for Sweeney although a tight call. Also I would have to slot in Ryan McHugh in the backs somewhere but I can't fault your team.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 17:33:31
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Stefan White was some operator." He sure was Mick. He is a son of Stephen White who played on the great Louth team of 1957 that won Sam. Work brought Stefan to Castleblaney where he played for the Monaghan team for a few years in which in won an Ulster title in 1988. He also won a couple of Monaghan Senior titles with Castleblaney Faughs.
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 785 - 18/02/2021 17:46:24
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Yeah but you can just pick best Neath team in your opinion. Liam Harnan was one tough Centre back. However if I was picking my best Meath team I remember I'd have to have Mick Lyons so I'd slot Fay in centre back. I'd go for. C. Ó Sullivan. 2.M.Reilly.3.M.Lyons.4.R.O Malley. 5.Geraghty 6.D.Fay.7.M.O Connell. 8. J. McDermott. 9.G.McEntee.10.T.Giles.11.C.oRourke.12.T.Dowd.13.O.Murphy.14.B.Stafford.15.B.Flynn.Subs.M.McQuillan.D.Beggy.J.Cassells. L Hayes. L. Harnan. CCoyle. G. O Reilly. B. Reilly. T. Ferguson. J. Sheridan." Fair point Mick ;) Hard argued on that team. Fay played 6 for a while when he unretired in 2007 so you could slot him in there but it's hard not to have Harnan at 6. Its difficult for any Meath person to pick only one full back over another given that we've had so many good one. I'd argue that any of Fay, Lyons, Jack Quinn and Paddy "hands" O'Brien were better than John O'Keefe. That's not a knock on O'Keefe at all and I could probably be accused of county bias with it. Kevin Reilly possibly could've been as good as if not better than all of them but persistent back injuries limited his time on the pitch.
I'd not disagree with your 15 to be honest. I wouldn't move Robbie out of 2 and would put Ferguson at 4. Or the real left field thing would be O'Connell at 4 and then Pat Reynolds sr at 7. Couldn't disagree with your 8-15 though.
You'll get Kudos from RoyalDunne for putting his Graham Reilly on the bench. I'd have Stephen Bray ahead of him all day though. Only play from the last 10 years who'd get a place on the bench for the Boylan all ireland winning teams.
Jaysus I'd hate to pick a Kerry team myself being honest with you. I'll give it a go though
D Murphy, M O'Se, J O'Keefe, T O'Sullivan P O'Se, T Spillane, S Moynihan, J O'Shea, M O'Connell, Dec O'Sullivan, P Spillane, M Fitzgerald, M Sheehy, E Liston, J Egan
I'm sure i'll have left someone obvious out. 4 was a difficult one to think of but O'Sullivan was tricky bugger. Tomas or Paidi is like asking who your favorite child is. D O'Se was hard to exclude but those two are two of the best ever so are automatic selections. Forwards was very bloody hard. I know people will be stunned with no Gooch but i'll give reasons. You can't leave members of that inside line out, they're nailed on. Same for Spillane. Fitzgerald dragged Kerry to an all ireland in 97 and was more important to them during the lean years from 86-97. He was on a different planet, the fact he only has 3 all stars is a joke. Given what else is there Declan O'Sullivan is a pick i'd make to balance the team as he was always dragging Kerry teams through on bad days, he could get the ball from deep and move it through the lines, wasn't afraid to get down and dirty. Now yes if its Harlem Globe trotters then Gooch would replace Declan, but there you go. As we say opinions are like you know whats, everyone has one.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 18/02/2021 18:07:25
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Replying To Ollie2: "He sure was Mick. He is a son of Stephen White who played on the great Louth team of 1957 that won Sam. Work brought Stefan to Castleblaney where he played for the Monaghan team for a few years in which in won an Ulster title in 1988. He also won a couple of Monaghan Senior titles with Castleblaney Faughs." Ollie forgive me for asking. Was there a link with Stefan and Armagh too?? Might be misremembering things on that front. There's something knocking round my head he played for them and possibly a fourth county (maybe New York or London!!)
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 18/02/2021 18:10:48
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Replying To brian: "Ollie forgive me for asking. Was there a link with Stefan and Armagh too?? Might be misremembering things on that front. There's something knocking round my head he played for them and possibly a fourth county (maybe New York or London!!)" Maybe he was linked with them but he never played with Armagh. He also played club football in Down with the Burren club in Newry.
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 785 - 18/02/2021 18:40:25
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Replying To brian: "Fair point Mick ;) Hard argued on that team. Fay played 6 for a while when he unretired in 2007 so you could slot him in there but it's hard not to have Harnan at 6. Its difficult for any Meath person to pick only one full back over another given that we've had so many good one. I'd argue that any of Fay, Lyons, Jack Quinn and Paddy "hands" O'Brien were better than John O'Keefe. That's not a knock on O'Keefe at all and I could probably be accused of county bias with it. Kevin Reilly possibly could've been as good as if not better than all of them but persistent back injuries limited his time on the pitch.
I'd not disagree with your 15 to be honest. I wouldn't move Robbie out of 2 and would put Ferguson at 4. Or the real left field thing would be O'Connell at 4 and then Pat Reynolds sr at 7. Couldn't disagree with your 8-15 though.
You'll get Kudos from RoyalDunne for putting his Graham Reilly on the bench. I'd have Stephen Bray ahead of him all day though. Only play from the last 10 years who'd get a place on the bench for the Boylan all ireland winning teams.
Jaysus I'd hate to pick a Kerry team myself being honest with you. I'll give it a go though
D Murphy, M O'Se, J O'Keefe, T O'Sullivan P O'Se, T Spillane, S Moynihan, J O'Shea, M O'Connell, Dec O'Sullivan, P Spillane, M Fitzgerald, M Sheehy, E Liston, J Egan
I'm sure i'll have left someone obvious out. 4 was a difficult one to think of but O'Sullivan was tricky bugger. Tomas or Paidi is like asking who your favorite child is. D O'Se was hard to exclude but those two are two of the best ever so are automatic selections. Forwards was very bloody hard. I know people will be stunned with no Gooch but i'll give reasons. You can't leave members of that inside line out, they're nailed on. Same for Spillane. Fitzgerald dragged Kerry to an all ireland in 97 and was more important to them during the lean years from 86-97. He was on a different planet, the fact he only has 3 all stars is a joke. Given what else is there Declan O'Sullivan is a pick i'd make to balance the team as he was always dragging Kerry teams through on bad days, he could get the ball from deep and move it through the lines, wasn't afraid to get down and dirty. Now yes if its Harlem Globe trotters then Gooch would replace Declan, but there you go. As we say opinions are like you know whats, everyone has one." You made a good effort Brian no doubt. I would leave Micko Connell out but only cos I did nt real see him play. When I was a young child I saw him 20 mins when he was 37 years old so I'll pick on my memories. 1.C.Nelligan.2.M.O.Se.3.J.O Keefe. 4.P.Lynch.5.P.O Sé. 6.S.Moynihan.7.T.O Sé. 8.D Ó Sé. 9.J.O Shea. 10.Dec.O Sullivan. 11.M.Fitzgerald.12.P.Spillane.13.M.Sheehy.14.J.Egan.15.C.Cooper.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 18:40:47
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My Dublin team that I have seen. 1.Cluxton.2.M.Fiitzsimons.3.P.Christie.4.C.O Sullivan. 5.J.Mcarthy.6.K.Barr.7.J.McCaffrey.8.B.Fenton.9.B.Mullins.10. A. Ó Toole. 11.C.Kilkenny.12.C.Duff.13.A. Brogan. 14.D.Connolly.15.C.o Callaghan
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 18/02/2021 18:47:08
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "You made a good effort Brian no doubt. I would leave Micko Connell out but only cos I did nt real see him play. When I was a young child I saw him 20 mins when he was 37 years old so I'll pick on my memories. 1.C.Nelligan.2.M.O.Se.3.J.O Keefe. 4.P.Lynch.5.P.O Sé. 6.S.Moynihan.7.T.O Sé. 8.D Ó Sé. 9.J.O Shea. 10.Dec.O Sullivan. 11.M.Fitzgerald.12.P.Spillane.13.M.Sheehy.14.J.Egan.15.C.Cooper." That is some team, Mick. I don't think I'd change a thing. Again, I only saw O'Connell when he was almost at the end of his tether. Dropping Dara for MOC is a selection headache that any manager would kill for.
I'm glad you included Paudie Lynch. He was the complete footballer. He was a master of every skill in the game. Not many players have All-Stars or AI medals, playing in 3 different positions. If I were going to Mars to teach the Martians how to play, it's Paudie Lynch that I'd take with me.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1926 - 19/02/2021 02:21:33
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Replying To foreveryoung: "That is some team, Mick. I don't think I'd change a thing. Again, I only saw O'Connell when he was almost at the end of his tether. Dropping Dara for MOC is a selection headache that any manager would kill for.
I'm glad you included Paudie Lynch. He was the complete footballer. He was a master of every skill in the game. Not many players have All-Stars or AI medals, playing in 3 different positions. If I were going to Mars to teach the Martians how to play, it's Paudie Lynch that I'd take with me." Oh for sure Forever. Paudie was an excellent midfielder centre forward full back half back and ended up a solid corner back. A very under rated player but a master in my book.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 19/02/2021 10:45:31
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Great team. I myself would have Jim McGuinness instead of Hegarty and maybe Brendan Devanney in for Sweeney although a tight call. Also I would have to slot in Ryan McHugh in the backs somewhere but I can't fault your team." Yeah plenty of lads you could make a valid argument for. Older players didn't get the same exposure on TV nor did they have the same number of games to shine on a national level. Guys like Martin Gavigan, Martin Shovlin, Declan Bonner & Manus Boyle were brilliant footballers for Donegal in years gone by. You also have lads like Brian Roper, Devenney etc who played on Donegal teams when preparation & discipline were not what they should have been.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 19/02/2021 10:49:10
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i know my county are not in the elite but this is my selection of the best players that played for the lake county
1matt scally 2peter smith 3 mick lowry 4 john keane
5 mick ennis 6 damien healy 7 spike fagan
8 mick carley 9 dom murtagh
10 ger egan 11 willie lowry 12 jack cooney
13 ger heavin 14 martin flanagan 45 dessie dolan
mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1806 - 19/02/2021 11:41:53
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Replying To mickcunningham: "i know my county are not in the elite but this is my selection of the best players that played for the lake county
1matt scally 2peter smith 3 mick lowry 4 john keane
5 mick ennis 6 damien healy 7 spike fagan
8 mick carley 9 dom murtagh
10 ger egan 11 willie lowry 12 jack cooney
13 ger heavin 14 martin flanagan 45 dessie dolan" John Keane as good as any corner back. Rory ó Connell midfield maybe? and I would find room for John Heslin.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 19/02/2021 12:00:19
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Replying To brian: "Fair point Mick ;) Hard argued on that team. Fay played 6 for a while when he unretired in 2007 so you could slot him in there but it's hard not to have Harnan at 6. Its difficult for any Meath person to pick only one full back over another given that we've had so many good one. I'd argue that any of Fay, Lyons, Jack Quinn and Paddy "hands" O'Brien were better than John O'Keefe. That's not a knock on O'Keefe at all and I could probably be accused of county bias with it. Kevin Reilly possibly could've been as good as if not better than all of them but persistent back injuries limited his time on the pitch.
I'd not disagree with your 15 to be honest. I wouldn't move Robbie out of 2 and would put Ferguson at 4. Or the real left field thing would be O'Connell at 4 and then Pat Reynolds sr at 7. Couldn't disagree with your 8-15 though.
You'll get Kudos from RoyalDunne for putting his Graham Reilly on the bench. I'd have Stephen Bray ahead of him all day though. Only play from the last 10 years who'd get a place on the bench for the Boylan all ireland winning teams.
Jaysus I'd hate to pick a Kerry team myself being honest with you. I'll give it a go though
D Murphy, M O'Se, J O'Keefe, T O'Sullivan P O'Se, T Spillane, S Moynihan, J O'Shea, M O'Connell, Dec O'Sullivan, P Spillane, M Fitzgerald, M Sheehy, E Liston, J Egan
I'm sure i'll have left someone obvious out. 4 was a difficult one to think of but O'Sullivan was tricky bugger. Tomas or Paidi is like asking who your favorite child is. D O'Se was hard to exclude but those two are two of the best ever so are automatic selections. Forwards was very bloody hard. I know people will be stunned with no Gooch but i'll give reasons. You can't leave members of that inside line out, they're nailed on. Same for Spillane. Fitzgerald dragged Kerry to an all ireland in 97 and was more important to them during the lean years from 86-97. He was on a different planet, the fact he only has 3 all stars is a joke. Given what else is there Declan O'Sullivan is a pick i'd make to balance the team as he was always dragging Kerry teams through on bad days, he could get the ball from deep and move it through the lines, wasn't afraid to get down and dirty. Now yes if its Harlem Globe trotters then Gooch would replace Declan, but there you go. As we say opinions are like you know whats, everyone has one." charlie nelligan best kerry goalie
mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1806 - 19/02/2021 12:05:50
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "John Keane as good as any corner back. Rory ó Connell midfield maybe? and I would find room for John Heslin." rory o connell was a work colleague and im glad to say is a friend of mine he won a deserved allstar but as a midfielder he wouldnt compare to carley or murtagh ,
mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1806 - 19/02/2021 12:58:49
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