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https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/the-supreme-football-all-stars-kerry-edge-dublin-in-our-all-time-selection-40028586.html
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/the-supreme-hurling-all-stars-kilkenny-dominate-as-big-names-miss-out-from-corks-three-in-a-row-side-40028504.html
Would someone be able to post up the 15s? Judging by the titles, a strong representation from Kerry and Dublin in the football with Kilkenny dominating the hurling.
Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 958 - 30/01/2021 20:20:26
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Replying To Kerry15: "https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/the-supreme-football-all-stars-kerry-edge-dublin-in-our-all-time-selection-40028586.html
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/the-supreme-hurling-all-stars-kilkenny-dominate-as-big-names-miss-out-from-corks-three-in-a-row-side-40028504.html
Would someone be able to post up the 15s? Judging by the titles, a strong representation from Kerry and Dublin in the football with Kilkenny dominating the hurling." 1.S.Cluxton (Dub) 2.R. Ó Malley (Meath). 3.J.O Keefe (Kerry) 5.T.O Se(Kerry). 6.J.McCarthy (Dub) 7.S.Moynihan (Kerry). 8.J.O Shea(Kerry). 9.B.Fenton (Dub). 10.M.Connor (Offaly). 11.L.Tompkins (Cork). 12.P.Spillane(Kerry).13.M.Sheehy (Kerry). 14.P.Canavan (Tyrone). 15.C.Cooper (Kerry
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 00:09:59
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Hurling. 1.N Skehan. 2.Fan Larkin (KK) 3.P.Haryigan (Limerick) 4.Jj Delaney(KK). 5.T.Walsh (KK). 6.S.McMahon(Clare). 7.B.Whelehan (Offaly). 8.F ..Cummins ((KK) 9.J. Fenton (Cork). 10.N English (Tipp). 11.H.Shefflin (KK). 12.D.J.Carey (KK) 13.E.Kelly (Tipp). 14.Joe Canning (Galway). 15.E.Keher.(KK)
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 00:30:09
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "1.S.Cluxton (Dub) 2.R. Ó Malley (Meath). 3.J.O Keefe (Kerry) 5.T.O Se(Kerry). 6.J.McCarthy (Dub) 7.S.Moynihan (Kerry). 8.J.O Shea(Kerry). 9.B.Fenton (Dub). 10.M.Connor (Offaly). 11.L.Tompkins (Cork). 12.P.Spillane(Kerry).13.M.Sheehy (Kerry). 14.P.Canavan (Tyrone). 15.C.Cooper (Kerry" No. 4.is Keith Higgins (Mayo)
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 10:33:48
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It's a good list, albeit I'd, with my local hat on, favour Stevie O'Neill or Peter McGinnity or Michael Murphy over Tomkins, but I often wonder what's the point of any of these lists - inevitably, in some cases, you're leaving out people as good as you've put on. It's not always the case that, out of 2 or 3 great players, one is "better" - there's maybe not a cigarette paper between them in terms of quality, and so you're just flipping a coin or going with who you have seen more of on you tube.
It's also a strange list that can leave out a leader of men like Mick O'Connell (the man I'd want to have as captain on any all time 15), and leave out Tyrone's greatest ever natural talent, Frank McGuigan. I saw him and Canavan both, on numerous occasions over many years; and it's very clear to me that, while Canavan was brilliant, and did stuff on a pitch that would have you rubbing your eyes in disbelief one minute and laughing out loud the next, McGuigan still was that wee bit better again. Of course, McGuigan spent his best years in the States, had a bad accident, shone mainly in club and in "un-refereed" 1970s Ulster county matches where the refereeing rule seemed to be "no blood, no free" lol, which rarely were on the national radar, didn't contribute near as much to the county as Canavan did, etc, and I fully accept all that.
And do you judge people by their raw talent / natural skills, or do you rate them by longevity and trophies won?
Someone, for instance, may have had a chaotic personal life, hitting the bottle etc, and/or played or a weaker county. But for whatever short while they were at their peak, they may have been brilliant, the equal of anyone. But because they then hit the bottle, or emigrated, or drifted out of the game, or were with a county that never won anything, they'll just be forever off the radar. (In the soccer, a prime example is G Best, who was for my money, an outrageous talent, easily in a world top 5, but because he played for a joke team like the North and drunk himself into the ground and quit the game young, he's never nowadays mentioned in any international ranking of soccer greats.)
Although I'm pleased to see a good representation from the Kerry 70s-80s team. If you had that team, fed, watered and coached to modern standards, they'd clean up even today. In my opinion!
I'd also love to see a county top 15 for each county, to give us all a better idea of the overlooked and forgotten greats in each county, as voted for by people in that county only. Although I'd say there'd be serious disagreements in drawing up any county top 15 list : )
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 31/01/2021 12:43:18
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Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 406 - 31/01/2021 13:16:53
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Replying To essmac: "It's a good list, albeit I'd, with my local hat on, favour Stevie O'Neill or Peter McGinnity or Michael Murphy over Tomkins, but I often wonder what's the point of any of these lists - inevitably, in some cases, you're leaving out people as good as you've put on. It's not always the case that, out of 2 or 3 great players, one is "better" - there's maybe not a cigarette paper between them in terms of quality, and so you're just flipping a coin or going with who you have seen more of on you tube.
It's also a strange list that can leave out a leader of men like Mick O'Connell (the man I'd want to have as captain on any all time 15), and leave out Tyrone's greatest ever natural talent, Frank McGuigan. I saw him and Canavan both, on numerous occasions over many years; and it's very clear to me that, while Canavan was brilliant, and did stuff on a pitch that would have you rubbing your eyes in disbelief one minute and laughing out loud the next, McGuigan still was that wee bit better again. Of course, McGuigan spent his best years in the States, had a bad accident, shone mainly in club and in "un-refereed" 1970s Ulster county matches where the refereeing rule seemed to be "no blood, no free" lol, which rarely were on the national radar, didn't contribute near as much to the county as Canavan did, etc, and I fully accept all that.
And do you judge people by their raw talent / natural skills, or do you rate them by longevity and trophies won?
Someone, for instance, may have had a chaotic personal life, hitting the bottle etc, and/or played or a weaker county. But for whatever short while they were at their peak, they may have been brilliant, the equal of anyone. But because they then hit the bottle, or emigrated, or drifted out of the game, or were with a county that never won anything, they'll just be forever off the radar. (In the soccer, a prime example is G Best, who was for my money, an outrageous talent, easily in a world top 5, but because he played for a joke team like the North and drunk himself into the ground and quit the game young, he's never nowadays mentioned in any international ranking of soccer greats.)
Although I'm pleased to see a good representation from the Kerry 70s-80s team. If you had that team, fed, watered and coached to modern standards, they'd clean up even today. In my opinion!
I'd also love to see a county top 15 for each county, to give us all a better idea of the overlooked and forgotten greats in each county, as voted for by people in that county only. Although I'd say there'd be serious disagreements in drawing up any county top 15 list : )" Well I. Fairness the all stars only came in around 1971 so the teams are based from then onwards so the likes of Sean Purcell Mick ó Connell Christy Ring and John Doyle are not considered. Of course we all have our own hats on and see our own players and fellow provincial players more often but on paper it does look a class team especially the forward line. For me the midfield was an automatic choice and while Peter McVinnity a fine player Brian Mullins would be ahead of him too. On Larry Tompkins he was a brilliant player and of course I would have seen him live v Kerry alot more than other before live TV games started. That time only all ireland semis and finals were on TV. For Tyrone maybe Philly Jordan unlucky. Delighted too see the great Matt Connor picked too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 13:25:09
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Replying To essmac: "It's a good list, albeit I'd, with my local hat on, favour Stevie O'Neill or Peter McGinnity or Michael Murphy over Tomkins, but I often wonder what's the point of any of these lists - inevitably, in some cases, you're leaving out people as good as you've put on. It's not always the case that, out of 2 or 3 great players, one is "better" - there's maybe not a cigarette paper between them in terms of quality, and so you're just flipping a coin or going with who you have seen more of on you tube.
It's also a strange list that can leave out a leader of men like Mick O'Connell (the man I'd want to have as captain on any all time 15), and leave out Tyrone's greatest ever natural talent, Frank McGuigan. I saw him and Canavan both, on numerous occasions over many years; and it's very clear to me that, while Canavan was brilliant, and did stuff on a pitch that would have you rubbing your eyes in disbelief one minute and laughing out loud the next, McGuigan still was that wee bit better again. Of course, McGuigan spent his best years in the States, had a bad accident, shone mainly in club and in "un-refereed" 1970s Ulster county matches where the refereeing rule seemed to be "no blood, no free" lol, which rarely were on the national radar, didn't contribute near as much to the county as Canavan did, etc, and I fully accept all that.
And do you judge people by their raw talent / natural skills, or do you rate them by longevity and trophies won?
Someone, for instance, may have had a chaotic personal life, hitting the bottle etc, and/or played or a weaker county. But for whatever short while they were at their peak, they may have been brilliant, the equal of anyone. But because they then hit the bottle, or emigrated, or drifted out of the game, or were with a county that never won anything, they'll just be forever off the radar. (In the soccer, a prime example is G Best, who was for my money, an outrageous talent, easily in a world top 5, but because he played for a joke team like the North and drunk himself into the ground and quit the game young, he's never nowadays mentioned in any international ranking of soccer greats.)
Although I'm pleased to see a good representation from the Kerry 70s-80s team. If you had that team, fed, watered and coached to modern standards, they'd clean up even today. In my opinion!
I'd also love to see a county top 15 for each county, to give us all a better idea of the overlooked and forgotten greats in each county, as voted for by people in that county only. Although I'd say there'd be serious disagreements in drawing up any county top 15 list : )" We'd the top 20 players over the last 50 years from each county in both football and hurling only last year, from
Martin Breheney, the same man who published these Best All-star 15s.
I think the only difference was that he picked the teams last year by himself, while he picked these All-Stars with a panel.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1926 - 31/01/2021 14:47:37
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It's difficult to disagree with that team; 15 fine footballers.
Personally, I'd have Martin O'Connell instead of Keith Higgins. I'd replace Tomas with Paidi, as I preferred Paidi's more rough n tumble style of play. But that's just me.
And I'd replace Gooch with Maurice Fitzgerald. Maurice dragged Kerry back out of the doldrums. His 1997 display was one for the ages. Gooch was a great talent during a great decade for Kerry football where they reached 6 finals in a row, winning 4 of them and losing 2, narrowly enough to a great Tyrone team. That Kerry team, as was Micko's one before them, was really close to doing 5-6 in a row. However, I'd definitely rate Maurice Fitz ahead of Colm Cooper, and so do most of the footballing Kerry people that I know.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1926 - 31/01/2021 16:50:10
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "1.S.Cluxton (Dub) 2.R. Ó Malley (Meath). 3.J.O Keefe (Kerry) 5.T.O Se(Kerry). 6.J.McCarthy (Dub) 7.S.Moynihan (Kerry). 8.J.O Shea(Kerry). 9.B.Fenton (Dub). 10.M.Connor (Offaly). 11.L.Tompkins (Cork). 12.P.Spillane(Kerry).13.M.Sheehy (Kerry). 14.P.Canavan (Tyrone). 15.C.Cooper (Kerry" Cluxton lucky imo :)
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12121 - 31/01/2021 17:03:24
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Replying To Breffni40: "Cluxton lucky imo :)" Who'd you have instead? Personally, I preferred Martin Furlong as a 'keeper. However, I'd find it difficult to make a case, even for Furlong, over Cluxton. No goalkeeper, arguably no player, has dominated their position so well for so long, or influenced the game as much as Cluxton
has.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1926 - 31/01/2021 17:22:22
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Replying To foreveryoung: "It's difficult to disagree with that team; 15 fine footballers.
Personally, I'd have Martin O'Connell instead of Keith Higgins. I'd replace Tomas with Paidi, as I preferred Paidi's more rough n tumble style of play. But that's just me.
And I'd replace Gooch with Maurice Fitzgerald. Maurice dragged Kerry back out of the doldrums. His 1997 display was one for the ages. Gooch was a great talent during a great decade for Kerry football where they reached 6 finals in a row, winning 4 of them and losing 2, narrowly enough to a great Tyrone team. That Kerry team, as was Micko's one before them, was really close to doing 5-6 in a row. However, I'd definitely rate Maurice Fitz ahead of Colm Cooper, and so do most of the footballing Kerry people that I know." Tbh I thought it was well picked but there are a few positions alright that I would nt mind changing. I'd would agree with you on Paidi for Tomás and yes Martin ó Connell for me too before Ó Malley.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 17:45:34
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Replying To jacktheboy: "Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian." I think anybody on here outside of mayo would have cooper way ahead of o'connor. Not to even mention Maurice fitz as well
superdub (Dublin) - Posts: 392 - 31/01/2021 18:46:49
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Replying To jacktheboy: "Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian." Is this another catch22 undername?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 31/01/2021 18:50:16
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Replying To jacktheboy: "Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian." Michael Murphy, Conor McManus and Ciaran Kilkenny from forwards still playing are all way closer to making this team than O'Connor. Gooch was certainly far better than O'Connor as well. O'Connor is a good forward who has performed well for Mayo but not near this conversation.
Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 958 - 31/01/2021 19:37:04
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Replying To jacktheboy: "Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian." Well Jack you ré entitled to your opinion but Cooper is 2nd top scorer of all time and his scoring record in all ireland finals very impressive. Also you say he scored against weaker teams. Cillian ó Connor scored very big against teams like Leitrim London and New York. Also he took frees but not as many as Cillian. For Gooch s first few years Dara ó Cinnéide was the free taker and even in the latter years Bryan Sheehan was the main free taker. For Mayo Cillian took all the frees.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 19:57:43
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Replying To jacktheboy: "Cillian O Connor should be on that team, he is the leading scorer of all time in the Championship, still a young man who was injured for a lot of games and should increase that lead by a lot more over the next few years.
If Colm Cooper was that good why is he not the leading scorer , he was on a very good team that got to the final most years , had lots of easy games in Munster against weak team and he also took numerous free for Kerry. He also played a lot more games than Cillian." Also I suppose I have my Kerry hat on so I'll take it off. By your statement no other forward that played in alot of finals should be on ahead of Cillian as they re not top scores. Imo Cillian (altho a top player) would nt come near the team. Here s more forwards I'd have ahead of him Maurice Fitz Ciarán McDonald Diarmuid Connolly Alan Brogan Ciarán Kilkenny Anton Ó Toole Colin Corkery Stephen McDonnell Oisín McConville Mickey Linden Michael Murphy Colm ó Rourke Pádraig Joyce Declan Browne Kevin ó Brien Trevor Giles Ciarán Duff Bomber Liston Dinny Allen to name but a few.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 31/01/2021 20:05:43
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Tbh I thought it was well picked but there are a few positions alright that I would nt mind changing. I'd would agree with you on Paidi for Tomás and yes Martin ó Connell for me too before Ó Malley." If players are picked for position they played, than I would have R O Malley in ahead of O Connell. O Malley played vast majority of his football as right coner back. Martin was more suited to h/b, although he did line out as left corner back, full back, midfield and in full forward line for Meath over the years. Think he deserves his place but not with ommission of O Malley.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2150 - 31/01/2021 20:22:50
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Who'd you have instead? Personally, I preferred Martin Furlong as a 'keeper. However, I'd find it difficult to make a case, even for Furlong, over Cluxton. No goalkeeper, arguably no player, has dominated their position so well for so long, or influenced the game as much as Cluxton
has." I have to admit I am not a die hard football follower but I don't understand all the hype around Cluxton. How can a goalie change the game. How does he dominate his position. The same goes for Hurling. A goalie can go matches without making a save. I know puckouts have become an important part of the game but in football 90% of kick outs go about 15 meters. I have great respect for goalkeepers in both codes and you will win very little with a poor one. However I don't see how a keeper can dominate or change the way a game is played.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 31/01/2021 20:28:31
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Replying To gatha: "I have to admit I am not a die hard football follower but I don't understand all the hype around Cluxton. How can a goalie change the game. How does he dominate his position. The same goes for Hurling. A goalie can go matches without making a save. I know puckouts have become an important part of the game but in football 90% of kick outs go about 15 meters. I have great respect for goalkeepers in both codes and you will win very little with a poor one. However I don't see how a keeper can dominate or change the way a game is played." Don't say that too loud of you're never going to be left live it down!
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 01/02/2021 08:28:11
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