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2020 Football All Stars

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Replying To HardCase:  "In fairness, in those instances dublin dropped the likes of flynn and mccarthy back to help out when those things did happen. I dont think that qualifies the dublin defense as solid in the air. In fact id say it is one of the rare occasions where dublin let the tactics of the opposition dictate their gameplan. To any objective observer, Id suggest that would indicate an acknowledgement of a weakness, personally. They dealt with it well, but it was well signposted, not unlike aidan oshea going in to mark donaghy a few years back - the fact that donaghy is starting lets you make that call. However, if it wasnt signposted, and a michael murphy drifted in from midfield with an opportune ball put it, that would be a proper test. However, the reality is since dublin keep so much possession, and look to get ahead and then set up quite defensively, this doesnt come about. Again, I would argue that this is deliberate with their aerial weakness in mind."
Well my point is over the last few years on a number of times opponents have tried to exploit a perceived aerial problem in Dublin's defence by posting a big man on the edge of the square and firing long ball on top of him, it has yielded very poor results, so this perceived susceptibility is exactly that, perceived, not real. In contrast Donaghy done serious damage to Mayo when put in front of goal.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 264 - 20/02/2021 21:01:06    2332203

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Replying To HardCase:  "In fairness, in those instances dublin dropped the likes of flynn and mccarthy back to help out when those things did happen. I dont think that qualifies the dublin defense as solid in the air. In fact id say it is one of the rare occasions where dublin let the tactics of the opposition dictate their gameplan. To any objective observer, Id suggest that would indicate an acknowledgement of a weakness, personally. They dealt with it well, but it was well signposted, not unlike aidan oshea going in to mark donaghy a few years back - the fact that donaghy is starting lets you make that call. However, if it wasnt signposted, and a michael murphy drifted in from midfield with an opportune ball put it, that would be a proper test. However, the reality is since dublin keep so much possession, and look to get ahead and then set up quite defensively, this doesnt come about. Again, I would argue that this is deliberate with their aerial weakness in mind."
Well my point is over the last few years on a number of times opponents have tried to exploit a perceived aerial problem in Dublin's defence by posting a big man on the edge of the square and firing long ball on top of him, it has yielded very poor results, so this perceived susceptibility is exactly that, perceived, not real. In contrast Donaghy done serious damage to Mayo when put in front of goal. As regards Dublin setting up defensively I think you have inadvertently figured that one out yourself, if Michael Murphy wearing no.14 spends nearly all his time behind his own 45, Dublin are not going to press fwd and leave themselves vulnerable, we learned that lesson and we know where the defensive set ups started.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 264 - 20/02/2021 21:07:28    2332205

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Well my point is over the last few years on a number of times opponents have tried to exploit a perceived aerial problem in Dublin's defence by posting a big man on the edge of the square and firing long ball on top of him, it has yielded very poor results, so this perceived susceptibility is exactly that, perceived, not real. In contrast Donaghy done serious damage to Mayo when put in front of goal."
Yes Joe but the reason they did it is because it was one chink in Cluxton armour. However it became hard to expose with a sweeper and double marking. I remember in 14 also he got caught for a goal v Donegal high ball and v Cork in league semi final i think 14 also where he was caught badly under high ball. He did improve over time and also had plenty of help at the back. On Donaghy he was unlucky not to get a penalty in 15 final with high ball but that was nt Cluxton fault. Even the greatest have faults. No one is perfect but as a keeper he is a close as you get.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1439 - 20/02/2021 21:43:24    2332215

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Joe but the reason they did it is because it was one chink in Cluxton armour. However it became hard to expose with a sweeper and double marking. I remember in 14 also he got caught for a goal v Donegal high ball and v Cork in league semi final i think 14 also where he was caught badly under high ball. He did improve over time and also had plenty of help at the back. On Donaghy he was unlucky not to get a penalty in 15 final with high ball but that was nt Cluxton fault. Even the greatest have faults. No one is perfect but as a keeper he is a close as you get."
The Damien Comer goal in the semi final. The ball he dropped into the net unchallenged v Down up in Newry. Geaney's goal in the semi final. The list is longer than Dublin fans care to admit.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4371 - 20/02/2021 22:19:32    2332219

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Replying To cavanman47:  "The Damien Comer goal in the semi final. The ball he dropped into the net unchallenged v Down up in Newry. Geaney's goal in the semi final. The list is longer than Dublin fans care to admit."
I'm sure you can get a few more, you've 20 years to go back through.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13240 - 20/02/2021 23:31:52    2332225

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Joe but the reason they did it is because it was one chink in Cluxton armour. However it became hard to expose with a sweeper and double marking. I remember in 14 also he got caught for a goal v Donegal high ball and v Cork in league semi final i think 14 also where he was caught badly under high ball. He did improve over time and also had plenty of help at the back. On Donaghy he was unlucky not to get a penalty in 15 final with high ball but that was nt Cluxton fault. Even the greatest have faults. No one is perfect but as a keeper he is a close as you get."
In 2014 Cluxton goes up with Murphy and the ball breaks away from the Donegal man. Rory O'Carroll drops the ball and McHugh buries it.

The fact that it routinely goes down as a Cluxton error says a lot imo.

Not that he hasn't made errors, plenty over the 20 years of League and Championship football he has played.

High balls are dangerous to all defences. Dublin cope much better than most from aerial bombardment.

Dublin's defence, over the last decade, has been at its most vulverable whe teams ran at it in numbers. Most Dubs are quite happy when we see a team decide to lump it in long for awhile as we know there is minimal threat. The opposition may score but they'll waste a good few possessions to get that score.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13240 - 20/02/2021 23:39:29    2332227

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Replying To MesAmis:  "In 2014 Cluxton goes up with Murphy and the ball breaks away from the Donegal man. Rory O'Carroll drops the ball and McHugh buries it.

The fact that it routinely goes down as a Cluxton error says a lot imo.

Not that he hasn't made errors, plenty over the 20 years of League and Championship football he has played.

High balls are dangerous to all defences. Dublin cope much better than most from aerial bombardment.

Dublin's defence, over the last decade, has been at its most vulverable whe teams ran at it in numbers. Most Dubs are quite happy when we see a team decide to lump it in long for awhile as we know there is minimal threat. The opposition may score but they'll waste a good few possessions to get that score."
This really i was delighted when Kerry started knocking the ball in high for the first 20 mins in the second game in 19, i couldn't get my head around it . In a way i think it contributed to them loosing the game as they missed getting that early momentum and the best chance for any team is the first 20 mins vs Dublin, Dublin the past couple of years dont really start games well.

I think its a good way to beat Dublin in the league, but Champo forget about it.

I believe its modeled in traiingng if you are coming up against a Comer, Murphy McShane, or Aido, on the balance of probabilities you always get a break but its not a consistent method of scoring enough to beat Dublin. Believe we also play play 20 Vs 15 in our A vs B games if we are coming up against a blanket defense.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3907 - 21/02/2021 09:23:03    2332244

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Well my point is over the last few years on a number of times opponents have tried to exploit a perceived aerial problem in Dublin's defence by posting a big man on the edge of the square and firing long ball on top of him, it has yielded very poor results, so this perceived susceptibility is exactly that, perceived, not real. In contrast Donaghy done serious damage to Mayo when put in front of goal. As regards Dublin setting up defensively I think you have inadvertently figured that one out yourself, if Michael Murphy wearing no.14 spends nearly all his time behind his own 45, Dublin are not going to press fwd and leave themselves vulnerable, we learned that lesson and we know where the defensive set ups started."
It isnt the same thing though. They done well when they stuck extra men back there because they were aware of their own weakness. You are right, donaghy done damage against mayo, but that was when they didnt adapt their gameplan. When they did a few years later they stopped him. Does that mean that mayo are therefore good in the air at the back? I would say no, the same way dublin are not good in the air at the back. The fact that both teams needed such extreme moves to counteract it shows that the weakness is more than perceived, in their own managers eyes at least.
Actually I would argue dublin set up defensively to counteract goals for the most part, as they know that if they dont concede them, they probably outscore most teams.

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 53 - 21/02/2021 09:45:18    2332246

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Bias from Marty and RTE , DEan Rock introduced as Dublin's leading scorer in the Championship yet no word about C O Connor the leading scorer of all times in the Championship .

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 70 - 21/02/2021 09:53:49    2332248

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Replying To cavanman47:  "The Damien Comer goal in the semi final. The ball he dropped into the net unchallenged v Down up in Newry. Geaney's goal in the semi final. The list is longer than Dublin fans care to admit."
Sean Quigley scored 2 goals against Dublin in 15 from high balls. Sligo Joe only sees what he wants to see.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2312 - 21/02/2021 10:32:45    2332251

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "What has Stephen Cluxton got to do to get an All Star?"
Make more than one save in a year. Also I thought some of his kickouts this year not to the same high standards as other years.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 778 - 21/02/2021 11:49:22    2332260

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Sean Quigley scored 2 goals against Dublin in 15 from high balls. Sligo Joe only sees what he wants to see."
And you see what you want to see !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVRg_UBgXSw

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2356 - 21/02/2021 11:54:31    2332262

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Replying To superbluedub:  "And you see what you want to see !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVRg_UBgXSw"
Yea was goodnight to see Quigley testing Cluxton

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2312 - 21/02/2021 13:16:36    2332275

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Replying To superbluedub:  "And you see what you want to see !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVRg_UBgXSw"
This video shows Fermanagh scoring two goals does it not?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 493 - 21/02/2021 13:18:51    2332276

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Replying To oneoff:  "This video shows Fermanagh scoring two goals does it not?"
"Sean Quigley scored 2 goals against Dublin in 15 from high balls. Sligo Joe only sees what he wants to see."

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2356 - 21/02/2021 13:53:06    2332281

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Yea was goodnight to see Quigley testing Cluxton"
Testing ? Have another look -:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2356 - 21/02/2021 14:10:19    2332284

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