National Forum

Penalise Hurling's Sliotar Throw !

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Who really cares. If it's close to legal then let it off - if its very obvious then pull it. I think that is pretty much happening now anyway.
The last thing anyone wants is to slow up the game and for the ref to be constantly blowing for that. It would drive everyone mad. Refs don't want to blow for that either.

What possibly should be trialed is a maximum of 1 hand pass and then strike, meaning the hand pass would only be used to get out of trouble.

hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 303 - 14/01/2021 16:48:55    2327426

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Refs need to penalise players consistenly fouling too. Instead we have players getting end of year awards.

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 14/01/2021 19:55:39    2327466

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Great thread and a topic that needs discussion.
Some of the great handpasses of the past like Dj careys were from the hurl to the hand or the switched hands. They are a joy to watch. However the problem is not with this type of handpass but with the throw type where the ball is thrown up and passed with the same hand. Asking refs to judge distance between the ball and the hand is futile. It wont work. Better getting rid of the one handed pass altogether. TBF the skill required is not much more than a throw anyway. There is too much handpassing now and it time to take action before it looks like another game ruined already by handpassing."
So the cleanest way to police/ensure a legal handpass seems to be - to only allow it off the hurl - i.e. hand to hurl to palmed pass - my 2nd option at this thread's beginning.

This restriction would likely lessen the handpass use frequency or shorten their sequences - killing two birds with one stone !

Now for football - what can be done ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1867 - 14/01/2021 23:31:25    2327497

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Replying To omahant:  "So the cleanest way to police/ensure a legal handpass seems to be - to only allow it off the hurl - i.e. hand to hurl to palmed pass - my 2nd option at this thread's beginning.

This restriction would likely lessen the handpass use frequency or shorten their sequences - killing two birds with one stone !

Now for football - what can be done ?"
It is not always possible to be able to hand pass off the hurl. It would end up in a load of shemozzles as players would end up just having to drop the ball if they cant get the hand pass away. Teams would put huge focus on bundling up the player so he/she can't get a quick hand pass away which is possible in today's game.
There are a few people on this thread who obviously don't or never have played the game.

hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 303 - 15/01/2021 10:29:36    2327520

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Replying To omahant:  "So the cleanest way to police/ensure a legal handpass seems to be - to only allow it off the hurl - i.e. hand to hurl to palmed pass - my 2nd option at this thread's beginning.

This restriction would likely lessen the handpass use frequency or shorten their sequences - killing two birds with one stone !

Now for football - what can be done ?"
It's a good job we have you to sort these problems out for us.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 408 - 15/01/2021 11:30:32    2327528

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Replying To hopballref:  "It is not always possible to be able to hand pass off the hurl. It would end up in a load of shemozzles as players would end up just having to drop the ball if they cant get the hand pass away. Teams would put huge focus on bundling up the player so he/she can't get a quick hand pass away which is possible in today's game.
There are a few people on this thread who obviously don't or never have played the game."
Maybe players would think twice about lifting the ball to hand in a ruck if they couldn't easily handpass it away then. The problem with rucks is that once a player gets possession they can easily handpass the ball away. Thats why we have so many of them now. I would argue that less handpassing would mean less rucks and shemozzles and maybe even some ground hurling to get the ball into space.
A simple solution might be that you cant handpass the ball if you received one.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 610 - 15/01/2021 11:56:50    2327534

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Maybe players would think twice about lifting the ball to hand in a ruck if they couldn't easily handpass it away then. The problem with rucks is that once a player gets possession they can easily handpass the ball away. Thats why we have so many of them now. I would argue that less handpassing would mean less rucks and shemozzles and maybe even some ground hurling to get the ball into space.
A simple solution might be that you cant handpass the ball if you received one."
Maybe players would also think twice about lifting the ball if you were allowed to pull on it when its there.I've a funny feeling though that todays players and referees would lose their life at the mere thought of it or sound of it

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 63 - 15/01/2021 21:44:14    2327650

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Replying To Suas Sios:  "I was never great at the hand pass in the first place but I disagree with some of your suggestions.

The back of the hand? Using the fist? This will reduce the accuracy of the pass and I can't see anyone supporting it.

Pass off the hurl is fine.

Encouraging people to draw the hand further back (e.g. 30cm) before contact to show the ref a clear striking action could be coached maybe.

Could it be that inter county players are so fast and skilled that it looks like a throw even when they have performed the pass legally?"
Agree on the last point, I think Limerick, especially players like Lynch are singled out for throwing where as most of the time they are just skilfully doing it very quickly with minimal space between the ball and hand, but enough to be legal. The times they've been pulled for it were times where it made no sense for them to throw it i.e not under physical pressure. Anyone who plays the game knows it's not that hard to handpass and it's almost an unnatural feeling to throw the ball. Why then would a player under no pressure throw the ball 5 yards? The answer is they're not..

blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 1017 - 18/01/2021 02:46:00    2327870

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Replying To blackspot91:  "Agree on the last point, I think Limerick, especially players like Lynch are singled out for throwing where as most of the time they are just skilfully doing it very quickly with minimal space between the ball and hand, but enough to be legal. The times they've been pulled for it were times where it made no sense for them to throw it i.e not under physical pressure. Anyone who plays the game knows it's not that hard to handpass and it's almost an unnatural feeling to throw the ball. Why then would a player under no pressure throw the ball 5 yards? The answer is they're not.."
I played the game for many years but I dont buy this. Your basically saying that they are so good at it we cant tell the difference between a throw and a legal pass. Are you telling me there are no players taking advantage of this? The problem is we cant tell the difference and some players are 100% taking advantage.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 610 - 18/01/2021 10:50:47    2327890

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes indeed. The other day, I looked back at the 1996 Clare/Limerick game in 1996, which was widely regarded as a great game at the time, and the standard looks very poor indeed, with simple points missed from very easy positions on both sides, hopeless deliveries into forwards and no movement from forwards into good receiving positions, among other glaring weaknesses, in comparison to how the game is played today."
It's a fair point, I recently watched the Galway v Clare All Ireland semi final from 1995, and the standard was not good at all. Some of the misses on both sides were awful (particularly Galway), aimless driving of the ball up the field to nobody in particular, and it's amazing to see lads actually staying in their positions for the duration of the game. If you were a corner forward back then, you could literally go the entire game without touching the ball.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 109 - 18/01/2021 11:40:27    2327900

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Replying To omahant:  "To Oldtourman (I didn't hit Reply as I wanted to avoid regenerating your post) -

I agree with much of what you said, we tend to see the games of yore through rose tinted glasses.

For me, the modern day scoring frequency lessens my enjoyment of the game. Don't get me wrong, I am in awe with the modern day players' skills and fitness, I just don't like the ball being popped over from all angles.

Back on topic, how would you improve policing of the handpass ?

Off topic, maybe it's time to cheapen point scoring by increasing the value of a goal to 5 pts ?"
Problem there is it might encourage managers to get even more defensive.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1266 - 18/01/2021 13:26:43    2327920

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