National Forum

Penalise Hurling's Sliotar Throw !

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To updwell:  "No just good old fashioned pick up your own man"
How do you pick up your own man when the only player who stays even most of the time in the one area is the goalie these days?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1399 - 09/02/2021 21:22:30    2330885

Link

Replying To Fairplayalways:  "In fairness we know he doesnt mean that...similar in football to do away with double and trebble marking teams top players, all players must be "man on man" only, double or trebble marking, a free to the other team only exception is where the forward is bearing down on goal the goalie can leave his line to block etc ...great players are being destroyed by all this multiple marking..no, its not up the teams concerned to find a way around it, the rules are the only way of fixing it..one to one marking, more open games and watchable games again, not this rubbish people seem to think is so much more better than what we had when games were actual that, games...."
I dont think double or treble barking 1 player is ever going to lead to a team winning. Surely it just means the other team has 1 or 2 extra free men?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1399 - 09/02/2021 21:23:56    2330886

Link

Replying To carlowman:  "We have had very few rule changes in hurling over the years... a big one was making a hand passed goal illegal. That took some persuading to get that through.
The second one is the penalty one on one.
Both of those have made the game better and more exciting!
I dont think that posters saying forwards should expect to be fouled if they are going for a goal is good enough justification for saying we dont need change.
The Diamond Hayden and Rackard was a different time where the full back shunted out the full forward and that was his role, to protect the goal keeper who was fair game for the forwards. Those were different times. As for Red Tony and his huge paw, and then hand passing over his head usually, well that is not allowed today ! I saw Tony many many times and he was a massive threat with the high ball close to the square for club and county. It was exciting no doubting that and he was the most dangerous forward for years.

The use of the free hand is there around 9 years, developed primarily by Kilkenny. That can very easily be sorted. And I agree that players are pretending to be fouled when they are in tight spots as well. Those things can be sorted too.

I think its time to look to the future, what can be effectively changed to make the game better.

We should not fall into the mindset that the game is fine and leave it alone. Look at recent comments from Ned Quinn plus some Limerick players.... change can make things better !!!"
I agree the game isnt perfect. As the players have got more athletic, they can cover more of the pitch and score points from furthur out. Because they can all cover more of the pitch it means there are more players in the area where the sliotar happens to be. So more bunching and congestion, less space, more over carrying and more defenders crowding out the attacking man with the ball. Because they can score points from furthur out, even wing backs these days, even full backs if you look at Liam Ryan, are taking points from their own half where in days gone by that vall wouldve been let into the full forwards. So less goals and less goal chances. We cant make it a rule for players to be less fit or worse at shooting from far out the field. The only rule change I can see being effective is to penalise an illegal tackle that prevents a goal scoring chance with a penalty. Wherever it happens on the pitch. Whether a hand pass is illegal or not would require the game to be stopped and a TMO looking at a blown up slow motion replay to see if there is air between the hand and ball before the strike. Works in cricket where you have all day but would ruin hurling. As the players get fitter and faster and better at shooting the game is evolving tactically to suit that. Good point about Hayden, Rackard and Doran. That time is sadly gone. It's a different game to a couple of hundred years ago when 40 or 50 lads from each team used to swarm after the ball flailing sticks. And in years to come it will be a different game again. All we can do as fans is enjoy it for what it is in our time.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1399 - 09/02/2021 21:37:55    2330888

Link

Replying To updwell:  "If a team doesn't go man on man then Limerick, who value possession above all else, will just give it to the free man in the full back line and run it up the field. Every team and management has their own ideas about the game and this is Limericks who will continue to do it until some team comes up with a way of beating it. I don't think it's boring and I enjoy it and I think we have been involved in some brilliant games over the last 3 years, as good has any games from the past."
I'm lost.

I don't know whether you're for or against man on man any more.

How you're going to make teams do it is beyond me.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 431 - 10/02/2021 12:10:37    2330912

Link

Replying To lionofludesch:  "I'm lost.

I don't know whether you're for or against man on man any more.

How you're going to make teams do it is beyond me."
The discussion has turned into a conversation about the game becoming boring and predictable and the lack of contested balls and the short passing, running game. I was just giving an example of why Limerick play this game with a free man in the full back line because the opposition have only 2 men in there. Limerick then work it through the lines but if the opposition played a 3 man full forward line they would have to go long from puckout and this would create the contested ball and more 1 v 1 contests. I'm not for or against man v man but I'm just saying this is WHY teams play the running, hand passing game. If teams tried man v man in every position we would get a different type of game.
I have no problem with the modern game and think it is just as exciting as ever but the quality of striking and movement is much better.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 437 - 10/02/2021 13:54:32    2330917

Link

Replying To updwell:  "The discussion has turned into a conversation about the game becoming boring and predictable and the lack of contested balls and the short passing, running game. I was just giving an example of why Limerick play this game with a free man in the full back line because the opposition have only 2 men in there. Limerick then work it through the lines but if the opposition played a 3 man full forward line they would have to go long from puckout and this would create the contested ball and more 1 v 1 contests. I'm not for or against man v man but I'm just saying this is WHY teams play the running, hand passing game. If teams tried man v man in every position we would get a different type of game.
I have no problem with the modern game and think it is just as exciting as ever but the quality of striking and movement is much better."
I suppose the game is constantly evolving but I feel it has evolved more in the past 20 years than from 1900 till the great Wexford team of the 1950's.
That is not a bad thing at all, it shows that the game is able to evolve and that good coaches working with willing players can move the game in different directions.

Fair play to this Limerick team in evolving their game plan into a winning one. It's a tribute to their great forwards that nearly all counties playing them have brought an extra player back into defence thus creating an extra man in the full back line for puck outs. Waterfird with De Burca over the past few years have also developed a particular style under Derek McGrath and brought a step further this year by Cahill.
Limerick has swept all before them, and they are a real tonic for the game.
With great displays over Tipp in particular, their skill level and point taking is on a different level.
Isn't it great too for their long suffering fans that this team has had great success at senior level built on the top class under age success of a few years ago.
Whenever the games resume, there is no doubt that the big 3 plus Galway and Clare and Davy will be out to down The Treaty !!!
I think we can all look forward to those contests. Hopefully we will have a firmer sod snd warmer days for those much anticipated battles.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1577 - 10/02/2021 15:52:50    2330929

Link

Replying To carlowman:  "I suppose the game is constantly evolving but I feel it has evolved more in the past 20 years than from 1900 till the great Wexford team of the 1950's.
That is not a bad thing at all, it shows that the game is able to evolve and that good coaches working with willing players can move the game in different directions.

Fair play to this Limerick team in evolving their game plan into a winning one. It's a tribute to their great forwards that nearly all counties playing them have brought an extra player back into defence thus creating an extra man in the full back line for puck outs. Waterfird with De Burca over the past few years have also developed a particular style under Derek McGrath and brought a step further this year by Cahill.
Limerick has swept all before them, and they are a real tonic for the game.
With great displays over Tipp in particular, their skill level and point taking is on a different level.
Isn't it great too for their long suffering fans that this team has had great success at senior level built on the top class under age success of a few years ago.
Whenever the games resume, there is no doubt that the big 3 plus Galway and Clare and Davy will be out to down The Treaty !!!
I think we can all look forward to those contests. Hopefully we will have a firmer sod snd warmer days for those much anticipated battles."
Hope so too Carlowman I cant wait!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1399 - 10/02/2021 16:56:04    2330940

Link

Replying To updwell:  "The discussion has turned into a conversation about the game becoming boring and predictable and the lack of contested balls and the short passing, running game. I was just giving an example of why Limerick play this game with a free man in the full back line because the opposition have only 2 men in there. Limerick then work it through the lines but if the opposition played a 3 man full forward line they would have to go long from puckout and this would create the contested ball and more 1 v 1 contests. I'm not for or against man v man but I'm just saying this is WHY teams play the running, hand passing game. If teams tried man v man in every position we would get a different type of game.
I have no problem with the modern game and think it is just as exciting as ever but the quality of striking and movement is much better."
I think that you making some good points there a lot of teams now fear Limerick and go into containment zone instead of having a right good lash at it Galway management appears to fall into this trap at Semi Final stage Waterford too in the Final played much better in Munster Final.

I think that you are making the point that thee sweeper wont work because they will pass you to death from Goalie to Corner back ect until they get it into their scoring zone and they are hugely effective at scoring from 70/80 Metres. Of Course they can also go long when needed as Gillane is so good at holding up play.

Nothing lasts for ever so eventually so other teams will come along Patrick Horgan of Cork had a few comments on it recently about how Cork would like a crack at LM

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 593 - 10/02/2021 17:05:27    2330941

Link

Replying To tiobraid:  "Have you ever played hurling?!!"
not by the sound of that post

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 1970 - 10/02/2021 19:13:43    2330950

Link

Replying To clooney:  "I think that you making some good points there a lot of teams now fear Limerick and go into containment zone instead of having a right good lash at it Galway management appears to fall into this trap at Semi Final stage Waterford too in the Final played much better in Munster Final.

I think that you are making the point that thee sweeper wont work because they will pass you to death from Goalie to Corner back ect until they get it into their scoring zone and they are hugely effective at scoring from 70/80 Metres. Of Course they can also go long when needed as Gillane is so good at holding up play.

Nothing lasts for ever so eventually so other teams will come along Patrick Horgan of Cork had a few comments on it recently about how Cork would like a crack at LM"
Yes indeed Clooney and Pat Horgan's views were ridiculed by Martin Brehony, a man who probably never played the game at any serious level. You are quite right-in the next few years a team will come with a means of counteracting Limericks style of play, as has been done with that of the great Kilkenny team of a few years ago. Anyway how are these changes going to be properly policed by referees. Last year Cian Lynch was blown for what on replay looked a perfect hand pass and a goal following it was disallowed. Later in the game a ball was clearly seen, on replay, to have been picked off the ground by John McGrath and Tipp had a goal allowed, despite that it was clearly shown on play back that the foul was committed. Was there no way the upstairs umpire Official could not have seen this and alerted the ref. If things are got so wrong now, why are people proposing rules that will be infinitely more difficult to police.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2708 - 11/02/2021 10:58:35    2331020

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes indeed Clooney and Pat Horgan's views were ridiculed by Martin Brehony, a man who probably never played the game at any serious level. You are quite right-in the next few years a team will come with a means of counteracting Limericks style of play, as has been done with that of the great Kilkenny team of a few years ago. Anyway how are these changes going to be properly policed by referees. Last year Cian Lynch was blown for what on replay looked a perfect hand pass and a goal following it was disallowed. Later in the game a ball was clearly seen, on replay, to have been picked off the ground by John McGrath and Tipp had a goal allowed, despite that it was clearly shown on play back that the foul was committed. Was there no way the upstairs umpire Official could not have seen this and alerted the ref. If things are got so wrong now, why are people proposing rules that will be infinitely more difficult to police."
I think Pat Horgans view that things even themselves out in sport is true for every sport that has human referees, linesman and umpires. Mistakes are made for sure. Once there isnt bias I think we as fans and the players just have to live with that. The solution certainly isnt more rules.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1399 - 11/02/2021 15:44:35    2331067

Link