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Stepping Away And Retirements (Early)

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Is it not fair to say that in Munster, outside of Kerry, the majority of senior mens gaa players are hurlers first and foremost?"
Cork, Tipp and Clare have a long history of dual players. The same can't be said for any of the others. In the not too distance past 4 of the 6 Munster counties were in either Div 1 or 2 of the league.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 525 - 28/01/2021 13:08:59    2329321

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Is it not fair to say that in Munster, outside of Kerry, the majority of senior mens gaa players are hurlers first and foremost?"
Yes if you say the same about Galway having more footballers. Also in West Clare it's nearly all football. But regardless of what you think the simple facts are Cork (who are in munster) are one of the most successful counties in football period! So while hurling might be their number one they would be called a dual county. P. S. They have more all Irelands than Mayo and Tyrone put together. Obviously records and facts don't mean much to you but surewe in Kerry won our first all ireland in hurling too. Maybe Munster is a hurling province with a few good dual counties in it.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 28/01/2021 13:10:11    2329322

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Replying To catch22:  "Senior is where you see the fruits of where underage promise finally shows up.
You'd prefer to ignore the stats there though I'd imagine.
If Munster really was more than a one code province you wouldn't have such a one sided number of titles in one county."
Again Catch. Is Leinster a hurling county? Because over the last 10 years only one county won football. In Munster 3 counties have won the football.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 28/01/2021 13:12:22    2329323

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Sorry no chance historically and they would be up against Vs the Dubs at the moment.

Id have huge respect for Kerry teams and players of years gone by. But if i was speaking objectively i think the dogs in the street know that coming out of Munster over their history has been a huge contributing factor historically to their success. If Dublin were coming out of Munster historically i think its very fair to say we would be further in the roll of honor, as it is we have done magnificently well to attain 30 coming out of traditionally what has been the most competitive province. Munster is even less games.

You only have to look at the last few years and Leinster regression an easier provincial championship and i would wholly acknowledge it has been, has been an enabling factor for Dublin over 10 years compared to Ulster and Connacht and Kerry have had much longer. Lets be frank its going to be a huge shock if Dublin and Kerry aren't in a quarter final as provincial championships next year. None of us could call Ulster or Connacht with certainty.

As the championship has thickened with changes in structure Kerry have struggled to put increased competition away, Mayo, Galway, Tyrone, Dublin - Monghan and Donegal all going respectively as well. The more integration the more competitive it is - its why im in favor of the S8s. as it lessens Dublins and Kerrys provincial advantages.

I think we see that at underage as well, were the old championship structure still exists, its easier it think for Dublin and Munster Counties provincially, hence the success.

On the dominance issue and impact, if Dublin dominance has a dispiriting effect on Leinster counties and i thik its safe to say it does, then its only fair to say Kerry's has as well. Both championships need to be in the bin to be honest or tiered and restructured, they are advantages for Dublin and Kerry at this stage.

Not saying Kerry arent a great GAA county they truly are, so are Dublin, but at the moment both Leinster and Munster provincials are huge enabling factors and have been for Dublin for 10 years and for Kerry all their history, i think its quite mad to suggest any thig else and neither county need that advantage really."
I was just making the point that it's unfair in my opinion anyway to dismiss munster has a hurling province.
It's predominantly hurling but in Cork kerry have had to historically contend with one of gaelic footballs powerhouses,, a county who are 4th in the roll of honour (guess whose third lol) and who during the 2000s were the third best team in ireland behind kerry and tyrone (2nd best team many of those years).
And the advent of the qualifiers and the thickening of the competition did nothing to stop kerrys dominance. Kerry achieved far more success in the 10 years after the qualifiers were introduced than the 10 years before.
L

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 387 - 28/01/2021 13:14:10    2329324

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Replying To oneoff:  "Cork, Tipp and Clare have a long history of dual players. The same can't be said for any of the others. In the not too distance past 4 of the 6 Munster counties were in either Div 1 or 2 of the league."
That's an answer to a different question

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:14:33    2329325

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Replying To oneoff:  "You're the one who was bringing up minor success and now you're changing your story.

Dublin have almost 40 more Leinster titles than anyone else but that doesn't seem to worry you. Why's that? By your logic Leinster is only a hurling province as well is it not?"
And now you're bringing Dublin into it. Why not look at Munster senior domination instead of avoiding the point and trying to deflect.
You're back to Dublin are the death of Football like the other lad now. Try looking a bit closer to home.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1906 - 28/01/2021 13:16:33    2329326

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Nobody is questioning Cork's football prowess here. Or Galway's. It's whataboutery

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:16:42    2329327

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Replying To Breffni40:  "That's an answer to a different question"
How is it? You asked if most players in Munster are focused on hurling when there's a much bigger tradition of dual players within most of the counties.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 525 - 28/01/2021 13:23:33    2329330

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I asked a fairly straightforward question. I think yis are well aware the answer is objectively YES but you don't want to say it outright which is telling.

I'm trying to think of a senior intercounty footballer in Munster, outside of Kerry, who would definitely make their county hurling team. Podge Collins?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:24:22    2329331

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Replying To oneoff:  "How is it? You asked if most players in Munster are focused on hurling when there's a much bigger tradition of dual players within most of the counties."
Are they hurlers first and foremost? Yes or No

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:26:21    2329332

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Well the great Kerry team that won 4 in a row and a 3 in a row after were only beaten by Offaly and Cork and were halted by Cork again in 87.Also their toughest games in that period were against Cork. However I do agree both Munster and Leinster are lopsided. Kerry were beaten by Dublin in 76 and 77 but after that Kerry started their great run. My naín point is that if Munster is being looked down upon as a hurling province then Leinster is worse."
Well i wasn't there and im guessing you were Mick, so if you say the toughest game was against Cork ill believe you. Dublin had Kerrys number in the late 70s after not seeing them coming in the middle of the decade, before that Dublin team broke up after th elast win, both were wonderful teams, we were lucky to go again in 84. But the fact remains Leinster broke up Kerrys runs, the Dubs in 70s, Offaly in the early 80s and Meath in the latter 80s, all those counties winning All Irelands - imagine trying to get out Leinster then. Im just illustrating my point. I know Leinster is awful now and id fully acknowledge its hugely enabling for Dublin, not breaking a sweat until a quarter/semi final. I think if everyone's honest its like that for Dublin now & its been that way for Kerry for a long time, thats not taking away from their achievements or tradition, or saying in anyway that their at fault.

Munster and Leinster aren't fit for purpose Mick, they need urgent restructuring. I think it takes away from the integrity of the game as both Leinster and Munster are huge advantages to Kerry and Dublin, its not fair on Ulster or Connacht presently - its much more difficult for them to win All Irelands.

I agree with much of what you say Mick and have 100% respect for your opinion, but i dont think we will agree on this. Its like Dublin trying to argue that Kilkenny are massively competitive in the Leinster football championship.

Neither Dublin or Kerry need the advantage or the leg up their provinces offer. Id love a split championship through the divisions, could you imagine Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Meath Kildare and one or two others in a provincial, be classs, we should all crave and rise to the challenge of that level of competition if we want to call ourselves big counties and show off our tradition in my opinion anyway, neither Dublin or Kerry need long grass to be hiding in.

Elsewise a Div 3/4 separate championship between Munster/Leinster counties would bring those counties on competitively instead of getting battered by Dublin and Kerry.

Anyow im sure, we will agree to differ.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3924 - 28/01/2021 13:29:14    2329333

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes if you say the same about Galway having more footballers. Also in West Clare it's nearly all football. But regardless of what you think the simple facts are Cork (who are in munster) are one of the most successful counties in football period! So while hurling might be their number one they would be called a dual county. P. S. They have more all Irelands than Mayo and Tyrone put together. Obviously records and facts don't mean much to you but surewe in Kerry won our first all ireland in hurling too. Maybe Munster is a hurling province with a few good dual counties in it."
I know all about Cork's roll of honour and all the rest thank you very much. You'd have to wonder how successful they would be if they were a football county like Kerry

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:30:41    2329334

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Replying To Breffni40:  "I asked a fairly straightforward question. I think yis are well aware the answer is objectively YES but you don't want to say it outright which is telling.

I'm trying to think of a senior intercounty footballer in Munster, outside of Kerry, who would definitely make their county hurling team. Podge Collins?"
Gearoid Hegarty was an established county footballer before he was called up to the Limerick hurling player. He was a also a key member of the UL Sigerson team when he was in college there, but wasn't as influential on the Fitzgibbon panel.

football first (None) - Posts: 1214 - 28/01/2021 13:34:21    2329335

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Are they hurlers first and foremost? Yes or No"
You'll have to ask them yourself.

Decides should you not be more concerned with most Ulster counties being focused just on football. Sure Cavan only recently returned to playing at senior level.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 525 - 28/01/2021 13:34:26    2329336

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Replying To Breffni40:  "I know all about Cork's roll of honour and all the rest thank you very much. You'd have to wonder how successful they would be if they were a football county like Kerry"
Probably would have more provincial titles if they were playing Cavan

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 28/01/2021 13:36:45    2329337

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Replying To catch22:  "And now you're bringing Dublin into it. Why not look at Munster senior domination instead of avoiding the point and trying to deflect.
You're back to Dublin are the death of Football like the other lad now. Try looking a bit closer to home."
How is it any difference to what you're saying?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 525 - 28/01/2021 13:36:58    2329338

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Replying To oneoff:  "You'll have to ask them yourself.

Decides should you not be more concerned with most Ulster counties being focused just on football. Sure Cavan only recently returned to playing at senior level."
Deflection and whataboutery. You do realise people can see that?

Cavan are in a competitive province, where the overwhelming majority of players are footballers first and foremost. I don't need to ask them all either.

You're only fooling yourself here.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:42:46    2329339

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Replying To football first:  "Gearoid Hegarty was an established county footballer before he was called up to the Limerick hurling player. He was a also a key member of the UL Sigerson team when he was in college there, but wasn't as influential on the Fitzgibbon panel."
That's the opposite of what I asked

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:44:33    2329340

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Probably would have more provincial titles if they were playing Cavan"
I thought you were better than that

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11805 - 28/01/2021 13:47:24    2329341

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Deflection and whataboutery. You do realise people can see that?

Cavan are in a competitive province, where the overwhelming majority of players are footballers first and foremost. I don't need to ask them all either.

You're only fooling yourself here."
Ah yes "whataboutery" the classic line for when you don't want to agree with something.

As what you want but most Munster counties are competitive in both codes, Kerry included in hurling as they're comfortablely ahead of almost hslf the counties in Ireland

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 525 - 28/01/2021 13:49:04    2329342

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