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Leinster Football

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I think the gaa's silence on this issue means we're all on our own Htaem.

I was looking at another forum the other night where a poster on it said he/she was very angry by dubs telling the rest of the country to shut up and that their volunteers need to up their game and that there teams need to just work harder to get up to dublins level, he/she wanted to know why weren't the dubs told to just up their game and work harder back in 02/03 by the gaa.

It's hard to argue with that poster."
That seems to be the case Kingdomboy, we might be thrown the odd scrap here and there but nothing to upset the pros.

Now the Dubs undoubtedly have gotten their house seriously in order and do have brilliant volunteers but they don't have a monopoly on volunteers or anything like it, so that argument amounts to nothing more than regurtitated rhetoric to deflect from the funding.

Look, naturally the Dubs want to defend their team, and you can't take anything away from the players because they're clearly brilliantly talented and highly dedicated individuals. The problem is, in the early 00s the Gaa decided to plough money into Dublin, which has now clearly reaped huge rewards for the Dubs but has destroyed Leinster and it would be careless to assume that can't happen at national level (they've only won 8 of the last 10 All-Irelands, but that's all down to their volunteers and everyone else being lazy I suppose).

Bizarrely we're expected to believe that the Kelly committee and subsequent additional funding has had absoutely nothing to do with a struggling team turning into the greatest team of all time. Now it could be a pure coincidence of course but I doubt it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 30/01/2021 19:24:16    2329763

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Replying To Greenfield:  "I don't want to turn this into another thread about Dublin. Think we have enough of them.

Not sure what you are trying to say here though.

You say it's our fault Dublin don't have to travel to play us or Kildare because we haven't upgraded our grounds.
Then you credit Laois for upgrading portlaoise and say that they have never played Dublin there.

Have I missed something?"
They aren't allowed play Dublin in Laois because they don't fight their corner to make it happen. Westmeath didn't fight their corner this year and were forced to play Dublin in a neutral ground that was empty. The chance for Meath or Kildare to play Dublin in their home grounds will never happen because the Leinster council can say your grounds aren't fit to hold the games. But by what posters are saying here they seem satisfied to be going to Croke park every year to be humiliated by Dublin in Leinster c'ship.

republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 30/01/2021 19:43:18    2329766

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Replying To republicofcloone:  "They aren't allowed play Dublin in Laois because they don't fight their corner to make it happen. Westmeath didn't fight their corner this year and were forced to play Dublin in a neutral ground that was empty. The chance for Meath or Kildare to play Dublin in their home grounds will never happen because the Leinster council can say your grounds aren't fit to hold the games. But by what posters are saying here they seem satisfied to be going to Croke park every year to be humiliated by Dublin in Leinster c'ship."
You 're being disingenuous about the reason the Westmeath v Dublin game was not played at Cusack Park. I quote:

The venue for the Leinster SFC quarter-final between Westmeath and Dublin has been confirmed as O'Moore Park, Portlaoise.

The reason for the Portlaoise venue is because the game has been listed for a 6.15pm throw-in to suit TV coverage and therefore floodlights are required.

Sky Sports will be showing live coverage of Westmeath's clash with the reigning All-Ireland champions, which will take place on Saturday, November 7.

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Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2477 - 30/01/2021 20:04:05    2329767

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Replying To Htaem:  "I know what you mean, it's getting very frustrating at this stage, eventually the turkeys will stop showing up for the turkey shoot!

But it is hard not to go to the games, I've been supporting Meath and attending games since I can remember and I've never considered not going, even when I know we're playing in a kangaroo competition.

The Leinster championship has been allowed to die by the Gaa and every Leinster county can take their portion of the blame for that, either by their actions or inaction in allowing the Dubs to create a monoply (which has now established itself at national level).

Sean Kelly set up the committee which ultimately funded the Dubs current success, the rest of us now need a Kelly committee of our own, otherwise the championship could get a little bit tedious (I mean the AI championship, the Gaa seem to have no interest in Leinster)"
That's it in a nutshell.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 30/01/2021 21:22:32    2329777

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Replying To Greenfield:  "100%.

Would love to get to the league games this year, especially as we have a rare enough trip to Castlebar.

Not bothered after that."
Same

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 30/01/2021 21:22:52    2329778

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Replying To republicofcloone:  "They aren't allowed play Dublin in Laois because they don't fight their corner to make it happen. Westmeath didn't fight their corner this year and were forced to play Dublin in a neutral ground that was empty. The chance for Meath or Kildare to play Dublin in their home grounds will never happen because the Leinster council can say your grounds aren't fit to hold the games. But by what posters are saying here they seem satisfied to be going to Croke park every year to be humiliated by Dublin in Leinster c'ship."
I honestly don't think playing dub in navan would benefit much. What would benefit is the funding. Kelly made dub the machine they are (a Kerry man ) who would have thought ?? But fact is Meath Kildare Laois etc are at least 10 years behind dub in what they need. Gaa want a competitive Leinster? Pump money into Leinster county's like they did Dublin. It really is that simple all other things become possible if we (all county's ) have the same funding and then we will play them wherever and beat them

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 30/01/2021 21:31:11    2329779

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Replying To Htaem:  "That seems to be the case Kingdomboy, we might be thrown the odd scrap here and there but nothing to upset the pros.

Now the Dubs undoubtedly have gotten their house seriously in order and do have brilliant volunteers but they don't have a monopoly on volunteers or anything like it, so that argument amounts to nothing more than regurtitated rhetoric to deflect from the funding.

Look, naturally the Dubs want to defend their team, and you can't take anything away from the players because they're clearly brilliantly talented and highly dedicated individuals. The problem is, in the early 00s the Gaa decided to plough money into Dublin, which has now clearly reaped huge rewards for the Dubs but has destroyed Leinster and it would be careless to assume that can't happen at national level (they've only won 8 of the last 10 All-Irelands, but that's all down to their volunteers and everyone else being lazy I suppose).

Bizarrely we're expected to believe that the Kelly committee and subsequent additional funding has had absoutely nothing to do with a struggling team turning into the greatest team of all time. Now it could be a pure coincidence of course but I doubt it."
100% Htaem, dublin went from not being able to get to an allireland football final for 16 year to winning 6 in a row and 8 allirelands in 10 years.

Their ladies team came from winning nothing to winning 4 in a row allirelands and counting.

dubs will say oh why are their hurlers not winning allirelands but that is coming, I reckon they'll have a few by the end of the decade and they used to be playing at the same level as our hurlers less than 20 years ago ( and our hurlers have come on a lot since then but nothing like they've done) . Also they've been in 2 allireland semifinals and have won a league and a leinster.

It's no coincidence that this has all happened since 02/03 , if they were told back then to atop their whinging and get their house in order and to work harder and get themselves to the level of Meath Kerry Armagh Tyrone and Galway kildare and not given the money I wonder where theyd actually be? I wonder how would leinster look now.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 30/01/2021 21:35:20    2329780

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "100% Htaem, dublin went from not being able to get to an allireland football final for 16 year to winning 6 in a row and 8 allirelands in 10 years.

Their ladies team came from winning nothing to winning 4 in a row allirelands and counting.

dubs will say oh why are their hurlers not winning allirelands but that is coming, I reckon they'll have a few by the end of the decade and they used to be playing at the same level as our hurlers less than 20 years ago ( and our hurlers have come on a lot since then but nothing like they've done) . Also they've been in 2 allireland semifinals and have won a league and a leinster.

It's no coincidence that this has all happened since 02/03 , if they were told back then to atop their whinging and get their house in order and to work harder and get themselves to the level of Meath Kerry Armagh Tyrone and Galway kildare and not given the money I wonder where theyd actually be? I wonder how would leinster look now."
That's it. I can't find anything to disagree with

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/01/2021 11:09:03    2329803

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I honestly don't think playing dub in navan would benefit much. What would benefit is the funding. Kelly made dub the machine they are (a Kerry man ) who would have thought ?? But fact is Meath Kildare Laois etc are at least 10 years behind dub in what they need. Gaa want a competitive Leinster? Pump money into Leinster county's like they did Dublin. It really is that simple all other things become possible if we (all county's ) have the same funding and then we will play them wherever and beat them"
It's OK now royaldunne because Kelly came out with a statement before Christmas that it's mission accomplished, that the gaa have saved dublin, its just a pity they had to kill off the leinster and allireland championships to save them.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 31/01/2021 12:00:39    2329807

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When you can generate interest in Dublin we have the ability to produce great teams and.players. Football was in a poor state in Dublin to a large degree up until the early 1970's before Kevin Heffernan took the reins and turned what was a relative poorly organised set up into what became one of the great GAA teams. The interest and organisation and drive he brought about rejuvenated Gaelic football in Dublin and produced one of the great teams in a relatively short space of time.Had it not been for that group of players it is very likely Kerry would have won 8 or 10 All Ireland's in a row. My point is that putting the right people in charge can have the effect that we have seen in the last decade with Dublin and I don't think it is really fair to say that we are only seeing this teams emergence because of money.
Money was badly needed to help maintain the games in Dublin and having the right people with the know how and knowledge of how to best use it was vital to what we have today.
We have seen previously with Kilkenny, Kerry , Dublin,Mayo ,Cork,Galway and Tyrone to name just a few that you can be fortunate enough to see great players come together at the same time.
We are blessed with the talent that we have produced over the last decade and in no small way to the contribution made by a lot of those same players that were part of that great 1970's team.
Yes , money is part of the making of any of the great teams we have seen today and in the past but it is far from the only reason for their achievements.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 31/01/2021 12:06:06    2329808

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "100% Htaem, dublin went from not being able to get to an allireland football final for 16 year to winning 6 in a row and 8 allirelands in 10 years.

Their ladies team came from winning nothing to winning 4 in a row allirelands and counting.

dubs will say oh why are their hurlers not winning allirelands but that is coming, I reckon they'll have a few by the end of the decade and they used to be playing at the same level as our hurlers less than 20 years ago ( and our hurlers have come on a lot since then but nothing like they've done) . Also they've been in 2 allireland semifinals and have won a league and a leinster.

It's no coincidence that this has all happened since 02/03 , if they were told back then to atop their whinging and get their house in order and to work harder and get themselves to the level of Meath Kerry Armagh Tyrone and Galway kildare and not given the money I wonder where theyd actually be? I wonder how would leinster look now."
There's no doubt the money has made a massive difference to their senior football teams, it's clear to see no matter how often we're told to shut up and ignore it.

I think the hurlers 'lack of success' (don't forget they did go from nowhere to win a Leinster and establish themselves as a top tier team) is yet another red herring to deflect from the funding.

Also, I know a few Dubs who are involved with Dublin hurling and they bemoan the fact that the footballers always seem to get preferance. Dublin is a football county and that is their main focus, if the hurlers start winning national honours then great but I don't think that's Dublin Gaa's priority.

It's very hard to know where Dublin Gaa would be if the committee hadn't been set up and the money hadn't been ploughed in. Given their massive population, I'd imagine they would have still won an all-ireland or 2 anyway but certainly not 8!!

Also, I think the Leinster championship would still have been dominated by Dublin once they got out of their slump (it always has been) but you'd have seen teams rise up and beat them on a rotational basis (again as has generally been the case). But sadly a once great provincial championship has been dismissed and left to rot!

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 31/01/2021 12:59:01    2329814

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Colm o rourke has a good piece in today's Sunday independent about dublins dominance, its a good read with allot of vallid points.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 31/01/2021 13:36:42    2329820

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "When you can generate interest in Dublin we have the ability to produce great teams and.players. Football was in a poor state in Dublin to a large degree up until the early 1970's before Kevin Heffernan took the reins and turned what was a relative poorly organised set up into what became one of the great GAA teams. The interest and organisation and drive he brought about rejuvenated Gaelic football in Dublin and produced one of the great teams in a relatively short space of time.Had it not been for that group of players it is very likely Kerry would have won 8 or 10 All Ireland's in a row. My point is that putting the right people in charge can have the effect that we have seen in the last decade with Dublin and I don't think it is really fair to say that we are only seeing this teams emergence because of money.
Money was badly needed to help maintain the games in Dublin and having the right people with the know how and knowledge of how to best use it was vital to what we have today.
We have seen previously with Kilkenny, Kerry , Dublin,Mayo ,Cork,Galway and Tyrone to name just a few that you can be fortunate enough to see great players come together at the same time.
We are blessed with the talent that we have produced over the last decade and in no small way to the contribution made by a lot of those same players that were part of that great 1970's team.
Yes , money is part of the making of any of the great teams we have seen today and in the past but it is far from the only reason for their achievements."
Dublin's current success can't and shouldn't simply be put down to money alone, there's obviously a lot of factors at play which deserve great credit, such as hard work, determination and brilliant management/organisation.

But the role of money shouldn't be downplayed or dismissed either (which it often is), in the right hands money can move mountains in terms of promoting the game and building a very professional set up (I know the players aren't pros, that's not meant as a smear, I'm more pointing to the GDAs, performance nutritionists, strength and condition coaches, full time CEO etc etc).

Again, I completely understand that Dublin fans want to defend their team and why wouldn't they but for the rest of us the situation is getting dire. Many of us are no longer willing to accept that the Kelly committee and additional funding didn't help Dublin transform from a struggling team into the greatest team of all time, it's too much of a coincidence.

Ultimately, all many of us want to see is a return to a vibrant competition because interest will only last so long if we continue with the annual turkey shoot which has devoured Leinster and 8 out 10 says the All-Ireland is not looking too healthy either.

The rest of us badly need additional funding and importantly we need people in place who know how to use it. If the Gaa throws money at elected county officials with little financial or business experience then that will almost certainly end in disaster.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 31/01/2021 14:19:17    2329826

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "When you can generate interest in Dublin we have the ability to produce great teams and.players. Football was in a poor state in Dublin to a large degree up until the early 1970's before Kevin Heffernan took the reins and turned what was a relative poorly organised set up into what became one of the great GAA teams. The interest and organisation and drive he brought about rejuvenated Gaelic football in Dublin and produced one of the great teams in a relatively short space of time.Had it not been for that group of players it is very likely Kerry would have won 8 or 10 All Ireland's in a row. My point is that putting the right people in charge can have the effect that we have seen in the last decade with Dublin and I don't think it is really fair to say that we are only seeing this teams emergence because of money.
Money was badly needed to help maintain the games in Dublin and having the right people with the know how and knowledge of how to best use it was vital to what we have today.
We have seen previously with Kilkenny, Kerry , Dublin,Mayo ,Cork,Galway and Tyrone to name just a few that you can be fortunate enough to see great players come together at the same time.
We are blessed with the talent that we have produced over the last decade and in no small way to the contribution made by a lot of those same players that were part of that great 1970's team.
Yes , money is part of the making of any of the great teams we have seen today and in the past but it is far from the only reason for their achievements."
There is a fair argument there to say, that Dublin have been underfunded throughout their history. The GAA were funding it the pretty much the same as every other county up until very recently, to the determinant of the GAA in Dublin comparatively. Essentially Dublin were being funded from a GDF point of view the same as a county with about 100 odd k. When there is an equity as opposed to equality in funding look whats happened, Dublin always had the tools but never the keys, pro rata its now getting funding to meet in population needs. I think whether that fuels the debate around a split on the balance of population, i think is a different and maybe more valid debate going forward.

Its actually quite inedible Dublin have been so successful when they traditionally been asked to feed so many with so little comparatively. Its a great testament to those involved in the games historically up here and adds massively to the legend and tradition. Its our way.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/01/2021 14:27:58    2329827

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I honestly don't think playing dub in navan would benefit much. What would benefit is the funding. Kelly made dub the machine they are (a Kerry man ) who would have thought ?? But fact is Meath Kildare Laois etc are at least 10 years behind dub in what they need. Gaa want a competitive Leinster? Pump money into Leinster county's like they did Dublin. It really is that simple all other things become possible if we (all county's ) have the same funding and then we will play them wherever and beat them"
I think the other Leinster counties need funding 100%. I do worry though also about the number of small clubs in Meath and the quality of juvenile club football being played compared to Dublin.

Money allows plans to be put in place, the plan needs to be new though and with a focus placed on getting kids playing as much good quality football as possible.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 31/01/2021 14:49:47    2329831

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "Colm o rourke has a good piece in today's Sunday independent about dublins dominance, its a good read with allot of vallid points."
What's the gist of it?
And while I'm at it does anyone know if ewan McKenna is still writing?
I don't take the guy too seriously tbh,, a typical agenda driven journalist who only wants to use his platform to get people to agree with him.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1712 - 31/01/2021 15:22:32    2329835

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Replying To TheUsername:  "There is a fair argument there to say, that Dublin have been underfunded throughout their history. The GAA were funding it the pretty much the same as every other county up until very recently, to the determinant of the GAA in Dublin comparatively. Essentially Dublin were being funded from a GDF point of view the same as a county with about 100 odd k. When there is an equity as opposed to equality in funding look whats happened, Dublin always had the tools but never the keys, pro rata its now getting funding to meet in population needs. I think whether that fuels the debate around a split on the balance of population, i think is a different and maybe more valid debate going forward.

Its actually quite inedible Dublin have been so successful when they traditionally been asked to feed so many with so little comparatively. Its a great testament to those involved in the games historically up here and adds massively to the legend and tradition. Its our way."
Well please sir, can we have some more?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 31/01/2021 15:24:17    2329836

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Replying To Htaem:  "Dublin's current success can't and shouldn't simply be put down to money alone, there's obviously a lot of factors at play which deserve great credit, such as hard work, determination and brilliant management/organisation.

But the role of money shouldn't be downplayed or dismissed either (which it often is), in the right hands money can move mountains in terms of promoting the game and building a very professional set up (I know the players aren't pros, that's not meant as a smear, I'm more pointing to the GDAs, performance nutritionists, strength and condition coaches, full time CEO etc etc).

Again, I completely understand that Dublin fans want to defend their team and why wouldn't they but for the rest of us the situation is getting dire. Many of us are no longer willing to accept that the Kelly committee and additional funding didn't help Dublin transform from a struggling team into the greatest team of all time, it's too much of a coincidence.

Ultimately, all many of us want to see is a return to a vibrant competition because interest will only last so long if we continue with the annual turkey shoot which has devoured Leinster and 8 out 10 says the All-Ireland is not looking too healthy either.

The rest of us badly need additional funding and importantly we need people in place who know how to use it. If the Gaa throws money at elected county officials with little financial or business experience then that will almost certainly end in disaster."
Well Htaem I agree with alot you say but your last paragraph hits the nail on the head.If we were to get money from Gaa how would our county board spend it?you only have to look at the floodlight situation buy new floodlights put them up and then take them down lying behind the goals now going to waste.They need a proper plan and invest long term in the youth setup.There is no quick fix to this for any leinster county.It is going to take time to get the benefits if the right plan is adopted.It looks like Meath and kildare are going the right way with a bit more success at underage recently hopefully that continues and other counties follow.While I agree the Gaa has created a monster(with all the money pump in to Dublin)a question I would ask is what they spent the money on and how they made it work?we can say money bought success (it certainly helps no doubt)but you cant say money alone has brought them all the success.They obviously have very good coaches teaching kids for the converbelt to keep rolling.Dublin always had a good team through the80/90s Meath only just got by them a few times as did other Leinster teams, it's not like they came from nowhere to win all Irelands.Now dont pick me up wrong they have all the funding and it certainly helps and isn't right but we have to say the Meath county board abandoned the youth set up in Meath when we were on top or thereabouts in the late 90s early 00s instead of investing in the youth setup when things were going well.That to me is a major reason why we are were we are now.If we had of invested then and keep investing in the kids I believe we would be alot better position now instead we let a whole generation slip.Anyway back to today I believe that Dublin can be beaten in leinster it might take a while(a couple of years maybe)but they can be beaten.I look at Kerry,Mayo Donegal they have come close to beating them if one of them can do it I believe others can follow.A manager like Jim McGuinness who installs belief and a astute plan and obviously some luck as well or someone like Boylan.I know people might think I'm in cloud cuckoo land but if you dont believe you can win then you wont and what's the point in playing. They will be beaten sooner than you think.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 256 - 31/01/2021 16:28:06    2329841

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Replying To Htaem:  "Dublin's current success can't and shouldn't simply be put down to money alone, there's obviously a lot of factors at play which deserve great credit, such as hard work, determination and brilliant management/organisation.

But the role of money shouldn't be downplayed or dismissed either (which it often is), in the right hands money can move mountains in terms of promoting the game and building a very professional set up (I know the players aren't pros, that's not meant as a smear, I'm more pointing to the GDAs, performance nutritionists, strength and condition coaches, full time CEO etc etc).

Again, I completely understand that Dublin fans want to defend their team and why wouldn't they but for the rest of us the situation is getting dire. Many of us are no longer willing to accept that the Kelly committee and additional funding didn't help Dublin transform from a struggling team into the greatest team of all time, it's too much of a coincidence.

Ultimately, all many of us want to see is a return to a vibrant competition because interest will only last so long if we continue with the annual turkey shoot which has devoured Leinster and 8 out 10 says the All-Ireland is not looking too healthy either.

The rest of us badly need additional funding and importantly we need people in place who know how to use it. If the Gaa throws money at elected county officials with little financial or business experience then that will almost certainly end in disaster."
I've absolutely no problem with money being allocated to other Leinster counties in order to help promote and develope the game and yes, 100% ,unless you are assured that the right people are in place it will go nowhere. It was badly needed in Dublin and had it not been spent in the proper manner with the input and experience of the right personnel I know we would have been less able to make the most of the resources we have.
Of course it would be better to have a more competitive Leinster and it has been some 10 years or more since we saw a Meath team that were truly capable of challenging for a Leinster title never mind an All Ireland's. Likewise with Kildare and the likes of Offaly who have seriously regressed. I would ask though if this is entirely down to Dublins progress or perhaps in someways down to the shortcomings of the structures and personnel within those counties ? I'm not suggesting Meath don't have the right people to make things happen but are the people that are in charge the people that you would want at the helm if funding was available?

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 31/01/2021 16:35:23    2329842

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Replying To Htaem:  "Well please sir, can we have some more?"
Connellan reckons dublin are self sufficient now and are no longer in need of the money from the gaa and haven't needed it for at least the last 8 years, but the leinster chairman disagrees with Connellan and reckons the gaa need to keep part funding the coaches in dublin so the dublin County board can concentrate on spending their money on buying land.

There for in a round about way you could say the gaa are actually buying the land for dublin to build their pitches.

Connellan is also worried about the amount of high up people in the gaa who are affiliated to dublin clubs.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 31/01/2021 16:53:31    2329846

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