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Replying To Young_gael: "1) whats happening on the ground: pretty similar club numbers as always. I would say there is however a huge disconnect in Leinster to modern ways of playing the game, i.e tactical ineptitude, poor coaching, and a tendency to play to the chest, man on man, and attack focused ala the old school. That wins nothing any more. Also they aren't conditioned like Ulster teams or the big names from Munster or Connacht. There is a tendency to stick to tradition and history and other such buzzwords even in the face of their own slow decline. In the case of Meath there is also green tinted delusion regarding the lack of effort to work hard to fix the situation. The "next year is our year" phenomenon.
Leinster is also more split than any other province with competition from other sports and there are League of Ireland teams in Louth/Meath and Westmeath, healthy soccer leagues in the province, and several All Ireland league rugby clubs with dozens of registered players, along with many other Leinster league rugby clubs. Many of which are very successful and look after their players in ways that young lads will be attracted to. Sport in Meath and indeed Leinster has plurality which isnt the case in other places notably Mayo, Cavan, Tyrone, Roscommon, etc where there would be nothing to do without GAA, with respect. The fella on the street isn't too pushed about the county anymore, although fans are fans and many are still interested. Morale however is in the gutter and apathy reigns supreme.
2) best players making themselves available? Its arguable. In Meath dozens have walked away and/or made themselves unavailable for totally understandable reasons. Others have left to pursue Aussie Rules and this has happened in other counties, thats life. Other factors I would point out (in the case of Meath): bad management from within, under resourcing of development squads, bad retention at all levels, loss of identity in a hugely expanding urban county, hammerings to Dublin, and copping on that something is rotten in the organisation regarding Dublin, hunger levels, selection issues arising from retention, malaise on ground level, and quite simply a lack of confidence and drive. Its a vicious cycle. There is no quick fix to Leinster football, in fact there may be no fix at all. The quality (by modern standards) just isn't there anymore. Thats not to say the talent isn't there, which it is, but the end product hasn't been good enough to cause a ripple in 20 years, bar a few good days for Meath and Kildare (most consistently good) and a Leinster each for Westmeath and Laois, with special mention to Wexford in the late 00s and Louth in the early 10s. Im scraping the barrel here." Agree with most of your post, other than the "there's only Gaelic football going on in Co.Mayo" line. I'm paraphrasing a little, but that's the gist of what was said. It's something that gets trotted out a lot, mostly by people who've never lived there.
For instance, when I was a teenager growing up in Castlebar, there were fellas in my school who won All-Ireland titles in basketball, tennis and an FAI Youth Cup in soccer, as well as Gaelic football. There were lads who represented the Republic of Ireland in soccer and who won Irish titles in athletics. There was a fella from the town who swam for Ireland at the last Olympics, and a fellow who represented Ireland in the Davis Cup until he had to retire due to injury.
There was even a guy in my school who went on to become a professional weightlifter.
Granted, football is still probably the most popular sport in participation terms, but it's not as dominant as a lot of people think. A lot of Mayo fans would follow the county senior side but may not necessarily be involved with their local club.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 27/01/2021 06:24:37
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Great to see KingdomBoy is now posting as a galway poster too.. And he says the dubs have multiple accounts. Least they stick to their own county.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 27/01/2021 09:20:16
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Replying To brian: "Great to see KingdomBoy is now posting as a galway poster too.. And he says the dubs have multiple accounts. Least they stick to their own county." I have 1 account Brian also there is a big flaw in your assersion, I looked back at this posters posts on this thread and he starts off by posting a link, every 1 on here bar you it seems know I don't know how to post a link.
Username tried the same tactic a few months back so nothing new there.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 27/01/2021 10:52:10
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Going really well! plenty of Dublin clubs playing in the premier division as well as Dundalk flying high! Drogheda United back in the big time now too! The future is bright for Leinster Football
Meath10 (Meath) - Posts: 183 - 27/01/2021 12:14:13
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Replying To Monkeycatcher: "I live in a border town where the population has boomed in the last decade, these blow ins as we are referred to are made up from people from all corners of the country and further afield . The idea that its dublin people moving accross the border and ruining the meath identity in my opinion is a red herring, our club is run by a very eclectic group as a result as was my own childhood club across the border . My point is that change needs to be embraced rather than rejected because this repopulation wont be reversed." Didn't mean my original post as an insult to Dublin people living in Meath (I lived in Dublin myself for few years and still occasionally head up there to drink with Dublin friends), was just pointing what I think is an unspoken factor in my own counties decline.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1354 - 28/01/2021 09:30:14
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The Leinster championship is very competitive if you exclude Dublin. I think in the past 5 years they would have handily won any province (particularly when all their games are in Croke Park). Prior to that they would have had a couple of potential challenges in Leinster. It may be that once Leinster counties start to catch up to them that their 6/7/8/9 in a Row All-Irelands will cease.
I do believe that Dublin's dominance in the past 8 years at All-Ireland level (lets remember they won 7/8 now) is starting to mirror their Dominance in Leinster around 2010. They were winning by 1,2,3 points; then it started to go out to 5/6/7 and onto the eventual complete dominance.
So how can this be fixed?
First step is for everybody to wake up and admit there is a problem - even my friends in Dublin. Its particularly galling to read the "everyone must try harder" comments from the Leinster GAA chairman.
The question should be rephrased as to how can the GAA help other counties try harder?
First credit to the GAA - there is more funding for coaching kids available in the rest of Leinster - the results of this can be seen at Minor and U20 level. Hopefully, slowly this will catch up to Senior Level. Though surprisingly not all clubs are taking up the offer (mainly due to local funding commitments). I guess the couple of thousand euro needed is a lot easier to come by in Dublin for a multitude of reasons.
Look at the Leinster Minor championship - since 2010 Dublin have won 4, Kildare have won 4 and Meath have won 1 with Longford winning in 2010. So the dominance is certainly not all down to the talent coming through the county. But by U21/U20 level its all changed.
So how are Dublin so much better at bringing through players to senior level? There never seems to be a focus on this from the media. Its will never be fixed by the "try harder" and so on brigade. Other Leinster counties are competitive with the rest (seen by Meath / Kildare in All-Ireland Q/Fs & super 8s / Div 1 etc).
There are likely a lot of factors at play. From the back-room staff that Dublin can afford due to sponsorship to the depth of the panels due to population and the winning mentality that stepping into a dressing room where everyone has multiple Leinster & All-Ireland medals.
How do you fix it? I don't know. But I do believe the problem needs to be admitted first and quickly before the whole All-Ireland series becomes a similarly dead event.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 287 - 28/01/2021 12:12:55
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A Mickey mouse competition , that affords Dublin a bedding in process of younger players,
while keeping their main players in Top physical condition for the business end of the season.
Predicting the same old, same old for the season ahead..
Big talk , fighting talk, at the beginning from usual suspects... ,
then cry foul and blame the money that Dublin earn..,
whilst "secretly hoping" Dublin hammer everybody else akin to similar margins they suffered themselves
in order to alleviate the embarrassment of their own efforts.
Tyrones , Mayos ,Kerrys of this world may not be good enough and fall short, but what goes on here is "Massacre" levels for over a decade now , but those counties will continue denying just how rubbish they really are,
burying their heads in the sand , continually living the past.
BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 28/01/2021 12:55:26
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Replying To Black+Blue: "As has been stated many times, Kilkenny or Kerry dont or didnt have the population/home venue/lack of travel etc etc advantages that Dublin have..so there at least was the possibility that the chasing pack might catch up....Im not saying he should have said change all or any of the above BUT any competition where 1 team has won 15 of the previous 16 titles should have a broader analysis from the person in charge than "The rest will just have to try harder "...it's hardly helpful or encouraging to those Counties that you mention are struggling and falling behind badly." Dublin have always had a population advantage. Cork have one too but sure it's never mentioned. Other counties have one in their provinces and that's never mentioned either. The venue issue has always been a bone of contention but I'm not sure how easily solved this is when you consider that...
Dublin played 8 championship games in 2019
2 games were away at O'Moore park and Omagh
Of the remaining 6, 2 were LSFC semi and final which are always at Croke Park, 2 were AI semi and final which are always at Croke Park and the other 2 were super 8 games, one at "home" and one at Croke Park, per the rules.
I'm not sure what you would propose to change. I'd like us to have our own suitable ground and to play our "home" super 8 game there but other than that I don't see how Dublin are being treated any differently to any other county when it comes to championship venues. Croke Park has to be somewhere. Complaining about Dublin not travelling is like complaining about Spurs fans not having to travel outside of London for FA Cup semi and final matches at Wembley.
LSFC is uncompetitive at present due to poor Meath and Kildare panels. Their league positions reflect this. If Dublin's dominance in Leinster should be a trigger for change then surely Munster, Kerry with 81 titles, must be a huge cause for concern also. I we were to all bet our houses on the provincial winners this year, who wouldn't go for Dublin, Kerry and Mayo to be 3 of the 4? That says it all about those competitions.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/01/2021 13:19:36
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Replying To Joxer: "Dublin have always had a population advantage. Cork have one too but sure it's never mentioned. Other counties have one in their provinces and that's never mentioned either. The venue issue has always been a bone of contention but I'm not sure how easily solved this is when you consider that...
Dublin played 8 championship games in 2019
2 games were away at O'Moore park and Omagh
Of the remaining 6, 2 were LSFC semi and final which are always at Croke Park, 2 were AI semi and final which are always at Croke Park and the other 2 were super 8 games, one at "home" and one at Croke Park, per the rules.
I'm not sure what you would propose to change. I'd like us to have our own suitable ground and to play our "home" super 8 game there but other than that I don't see how Dublin are being treated any differently to any other county when it comes to championship venues. Croke Park has to be somewhere. Complaining about Dublin not travelling is like complaining about Spurs fans not having to travel outside of London for FA Cup semi and final matches at Wembley.
LSFC is uncompetitive at present due to poor Meath and Kildare panels. Their league positions reflect this. If Dublin's dominance in Leinster should be a trigger for change then surely Munster, Kerry with 81 titles, must be a huge cause for concern also. I we were to all bet our houses on the provincial winners this year, who wouldn't go for Dublin, Kerry and Mayo to be 3 of the 4? That says it all about those competitions." Jox spurs don't play all their games at home (they play 19 at home and 19 away) and they don't play their home games in Wembley except the year where they were rebuilding their stadium which if I remember correctly they didn't play great in Wembley because they weren't used to it.
Personally if Croke Park hadn't become yer home back in 2008 when ye started playing yer league games there then I don't think they'd be a problem going there to play ye.
1, dublin should go back to playing their league games at PP.
2, dublin when playing in Croke Park should have to warm up in front of the canal every second game.
3, dub should use dressing room 2 every second game.
4, There should be no dubs supporters left into the hill as since ye have the least distance to travel the cheap tickets should automatically go to the country folk.
5, No Saturday night games as that's not fair on people who have to travel 4-5 hours to get home.
These 5 thing would go a little ways to make things fairer and even things up.
Would ye dubs agree to that?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/01/2021 15:01:35
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Jox spurs don't play all their games at home (they play 19 at home and 19 away) and they don't play their home games in Wembley except the year where they were rebuilding their stadium which if I remember correctly they didn't play great in Wembley because they weren't used to it.
Personally if Croke Park hadn't become yer home back in 2008 when ye started playing yer league games there then I don't think they'd be a problem going there to play ye.
1, dublin should go back to playing their league games at PP.
2, dublin when playing in Croke Park should have to warm up in front of the canal every second game.
3, dub should use dressing room 2 every second game.
4, There should be no dubs supporters left into the hill as since ye have the least distance to travel the cheap tickets should automatically go to the country folk.
5, No Saturday night games as that's not fair on people who have to travel 4-5 hours to get home.
These 5 thing would go a little ways to make things fairer and even things up.
Would ye dubs agree to that?" Not another thread spoiled by ye KB. We're talking about Leinster football here, not about a football team competing against hurling counties down south. I think if Kerry were in Leinster you'd have won 10 or 11 in a row at this stage. Kildare and Meath have been very poor although getting it together below senior. Mickey might oversee a miracle in Louth and Petey might defect to the wee county, as the Dwyers did in Kildare. On a general note, there are still 3 teams operating at a higher level than everyone else, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry. Competitiveness at provincial level isn't the only concern.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/01/2021 15:39:34
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Jox spurs don't play all their games at home (they play 19 at home and 19 away) and they don't play their home games in Wembley except the year where they were rebuilding their stadium which if I remember correctly they didn't play great in Wembley because they weren't used to it.
Personally if Croke Park hadn't become yer home back in 2008 when ye started playing yer league games there then I don't think they'd be a problem going there to play ye.
1, dublin should go back to playing their league games at PP.
2, dublin when playing in Croke Park should have to warm up in front of the canal every second game.
3, dub should use dressing room 2 every second game.
4, There should be no dubs supporters left into the hill as since ye have the least distance to travel the cheap tickets should automatically go to the country folk.
5, No Saturday night games as that's not fair on people who have to travel 4-5 hours to get home.
These 5 thing would go a little ways to make things fairer and even things up.
Would ye dubs agree to that?" Point one,yes I agree they should play league games at Parnell park.Point 2 I think is a bit ridiculous,dont think it matters were you warm up,if it means that much why not do what mayo(I think)done a few years back and warm up with them.point 3 not sure about that dont think it would make much difference (could be wrong).point 4 As far as I'm aware you can buy hill tickets whether you want to go there is your choice.On that though I do think the canal end should be given to the other county only, if the Dubs have the hill same price tickets. I remember the days when Meath and Dublin slogged it out and the hill would be in full voice with the Dubs and the canal end would be in full voice with us Meath fans and the atmosphere would be electric think the gaa should do that.Point 5 yeah fair enough it is alot to travel 4/5 hours.In saying all that I dont see it making a huge difference,it on the pitch were the game is won or lost.
Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 256 - 28/01/2021 15:41:44
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Point one,yes I agree they should play league games at Parnell park.Point 2 I think is a bit ridiculous,dont think it matters were you warm up,if it means that much why not do what mayo(I think)done a few years back and warm up with them.point 3 not sure about that dont think it would make much difference (could be wrong).point 4 As far as I'm aware you can buy hill tickets whether you want to go there is your choice.On that though I do think the canal end should be given to the other county only, if the Dubs have the hill same price tickets. I remember the days when Meath and Dublin slogged it out and the hill would be in full voice with the Dubs and the canal end would be in full voice with us Meath fans and the atmosphere would be electric think the gaa should do that.Point 5 yeah fair enough it is alot to travel 4/5 hours.In saying all that I dont see it making a huge difference,it on the pitch were the game is won or lost." Íl admit I threw in number 5 for me and the other people on the western sea board.
But definitely there are small things that can be done to even things up a little.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/01/2021 16:07:53
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Replying To Joxer: "Not another thread spoiled by ye KB. We're talking about Leinster football here, not about a football team competing against hurling counties down south. I think if Kerry were in Leinster you'd have won 10 or 11 in a row at this stage. Kildare and Meath have been very poor although getting it together below senior. Mickey might oversee a miracle in Louth and Petey might defect to the wee county, as the Dwyers did in Kildare. On a general note, there are still 3 teams operating at a higher level than everyone else, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry. Competitiveness at provincial level isn't the only concern." Jox if you'll look back a few posts you'll see that it was Brian from meath that brought me into the thread so maybe talk to him.
Ps I'm only looking for solutions to the big dublin problem.
What do you think of 5 points I came up with? Would ye go for them?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/01/2021 16:14:33
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Jox if you'll look back a few posts you'll see that it was Brian from meath that brought me into the thread so maybe talk to him.
Ps I'm only looking for solutions to the big dublin problem.
What do you think of 5 points I came up with? Would ye go for them?" No problem with any of those points KB. The Hill is open to all fans. Sure Mayo fans have outnumbered Dublin fans on the Hill during big games and drunken Kerry fans caused trouble and were hauled off the Hill by gardai and stewarts in 2019. I wouldn't like to see the Hill or any part of any ground reserved for one county over another. That's not how we treat our fellow gaels in Dublin GAA. No problem warming up in the car park or getting kitted out in the car, our lads do this when training in winter time at Innisfails so well used to it. What did you think of my venue list for the 2019 championship? Where would you play those fixtures that were played in Croke Park a venue for these games that has been our tradition and enshrined the competition rules presumably? Should Leinster semis be in O'Moore and AI semis in Semple maybe?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/01/2021 16:54:23
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Replying To Joxer: "Not another thread spoiled by ye KB. We're talking about Leinster football here, not about a football team competing against hurling counties down south. I think if Kerry were in Leinster you'd have won 10 or 11 in a row at this stage. Kildare and Meath have been very poor although getting it together below senior. Mickey might oversee a miracle in Louth and Petey might defect to the wee county, as the Dwyers did in Kildare. On a general note, there are still 3 teams operating at a higher level than everyone else, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry. Competitiveness at provincial level isn't the only concern." Yep he just cant help himself , the bitterness is killing him :-)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 28/01/2021 16:57:08
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Didn't mean my original post as an insult to Dublin people living in Meath (I lived in Dublin myself for few years and still occasionally head up there to drink with Dublin friends), was just pointing what I think is an unspoken factor in my own counties decline." Ah I not you didn't mean any insult, I just wanted to Express my own experience of a life time involved in gaa in urban areas.
Monkeycatcher (Meath) - Posts: 155 - 28/01/2021 18:16:30
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Replying To Soma: "It's a lot easier for teams to train in winter and players to commit for the league if there is a promise of some good days out in summer. Cavan lads will already be looking forward to next season after their provincial win this year, if you told them their first championship game is against Dublin the novelty would soon wear off." Exactly
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 28/01/2021 18:29:07
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Replying To Manners5: "In the last 12 years, outside of Dublin, Kildare were the only Leinster county to maintain Division 1 status for more than 1 year.
I have pointed this out in another thread, that the current league structure has been a catalyst for differences in standards, most obviously in Leinster. Dublin have played at division 1 since 2009 with no other Leinster county sustaining that status for any prolonged period. Dublin have had a higher standard of games to prepare for the championship as a result.
This effect has become more profound with each passing year since the current leage structure was introduced in 2008. For example, up until 2012 (maybe even 2013), Kildare, Meath & Wexford were putting it up to Dublin in Leinster. With each passing year that these teams played in lower divisions & Dublin in division 1, the gap has widened.
For all the provincial championships to flourish, I believe the league needs to go to 16 teams in division 1 (8 in 1A & 8 in 1B). This will get more teams playing at a higher standard. In the case of Leinster, if any county wants to challenge Dublin, they need to get to division 1. At the moment, this is a jump too far, epitomised by Meath this year." Don't think so. Meath performed remarkably good in the league, had Kerry Galway and Mayo beat only for some bizarre and often unbelievable mistakes to happen near the end of games. I fully expect Meath to be promoted again this year (whenever the league is played) that been said my fear would be we become a yo-yo team. That is demoralising for all involved.
As for all the talk about competition? Take Dublin out of Leinster and it is the most competitive of them all, with realistic chances of Meath , Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, and maybe even Offaly winning a Leinster over the next 5 years. On the flip side put Dublin into Munster Connacht or ulster and they wouldn't be beat either over the last 6 years.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 28/01/2021 18:36:57
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Replying To royaldunne: "Don't think so. Meath performed remarkably good in the league, had Kerry Galway and Mayo beat only for some bizarre and often unbelievable mistakes to happen near the end of games. I fully expect Meath to be promoted again this year (whenever the league is played) that been said my fear would be we become a yo-yo team. That is demoralising for all involved.
As for all the talk about competition? Take Dublin out of Leinster and it is the most competitive of them all, with realistic chances of Meath , Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, and maybe even Offaly winning a Leinster over the next 5 years. On the flip side put Dublin into Munster Connacht or ulster and they wouldn't be beat either over the last 6 years." I doubt other provinces have the inferiority complex that seems to have taken over in Meath the last twenty years lad. I wonder about meath lads who want to talk up how great the dubs are,, many the members of the older great Meath teams would tell you to wise up!
jackmeyhoffer (USA) - Posts: 148 - 29/01/2021 00:15:41
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Replying To royaldunne: "Don't think so. Meath performed remarkably good in the league, had Kerry Galway and Mayo beat only for some bizarre and often unbelievable mistakes to happen near the end of games. I fully expect Meath to be promoted again this year (whenever the league is played) that been said my fear would be we become a yo-yo team. That is demoralising for all involved.
As for all the talk about competition? Take Dublin out of Leinster and it is the most competitive of them all, with realistic chances of Meath , Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, and maybe even Offaly winning a Leinster over the next 5 years. On the flip side put Dublin into Munster Connacht or ulster and they wouldn't be beat either over the last 6 years." Unfortunately Dublin are in Leinster royaldunne so everything you said about competitiveness in Leinster is rendered null and void. Leinster is no longer a championship. There must be competitiveness for a championship to exist. When it comes to winning Leinster there is no competitiveness. The chairman of The Leinster Council can protest all he likes. The Leinster Championship is dead.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 29/01/2021 03:51:30
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