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Yes I agree. Plus why do teams "tire" so much against Dublin?? Genuine question. Why or how can they be so much fitter?? All county teams especially at top level do the same training so why are they so much fitter then????
tonguey (Cavan) - Posts: 45 - 05/12/2020 21:59:33 very hard to defend most of the game and play without the ball. You cant set tempo or anything else. much harder to defend all the time. same in any sport.
Pundits won't say or are afraid to say it. The ball was in midfield and it ended up back with Cluxton in the square. If that was soccer the team would be lambasted, but nary a word because it's Dublin. I think gaelic football is in serious bother at a number of levels, both skills wise and competitive wise.
When we play the Australians in that compromise rules they give us an exhibition of kicking that the Irish lads cannot match which is fairly embarrassing.
There's old clips of AI finals on youtube from the 1930s and what strikes you are the low skill levels and how much kicking the ball on the ground was done, it was of its time though, but we aren't far off that type of skill level again.
I think it's good enough for the GAA though. They better hope that Dublin fans still attend games because no one from other counties will be going to watch.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 136 - 05/12/2020 21:59:49thats not a problem and happens with lot more teams than dublin alone. we are far beyond the level of the 1930s.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3781 - 06/12/2020 00:23:31
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I hope these threads continue from now til the end of time. If were provoking threads like this then were going alright. Much prefer these posts to the ones circa 2008/9 when we were slaughtered and ridiculed for our population and lack of success getting battered to pieces against the top teams. Life comes at you fast folks.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 06/12/2020 00:51:50
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Replying To republicofcloone: "Pundits won't say or are afraid to say it. The ball was in midfield and it ended up back with Cluxton in the square. If that was soccer the team would be lambasted, but nary a word because it's Dublin. I think gaelic football is in serious bother at a number of levels, both skills wise and competitive wise.
When we play the Australians in that compromise rules they give us an exhibition of kicking that the Irish lads cannot match which is fairly embarrassing.
There's old clips of AI finals on youtube from the 1930s and what strikes you are the low skill levels and how much kicking the ball on the ground was done, it was of its time though, but we aren't far off that type of skill level again.
I think it's good enough for the GAA though. They better hope that Dublin fans still attend games because no one from other counties will be going to watch." That is a rule problem though, not a Dublin problem. I think a rule should be brought in to prevent back passes in the defence after a certain passage of play. Like every other team the Dubs treat the pitch like a massive basketball court and will move the ball forward and back and sideways and in every other direction, like in basketball, until they get an opening. And they have every right to when the rules allow it.
On another point, why with Dublin on the verge of 6 in a row do people say Gaelic football is finished? Never once did you hear that said about Ladies football when the Cork women won something like 9 in a row.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2038 - 06/12/2020 01:00:18
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Replying To tonguey: "But why is their conditioning superior?? What are they doing that other counties aren't? There should not be such a chasm. I know county teams are in the gym now so they're obviously putting in as much effort if not more. So why are the results so different? What is the missing ingredient??" I think they are simply a few years ahead of others in terms of putting S & C programmes and personnel in place. For other teams it's not simply a case of just putting something in place and problem solved. In fact, according to Jim McGuinness it takes four years of high level preparation to get a player fully ready for the top level. Dublin have been doing this for nearly a decade while others are only really catching up now, some will never catch up due to financial constraints.
Also their players start earlier, virtually all of their U20's and younger players attend Dublin colleges in their formative years at senior so logistics are much easier. Compare that to Kerry, Tyrone, Cavan, Donegal or Mayo whose young players up to the ages of 21-22 are generally spread all over the country in third level colleges. You are not going to be able to coordinate things like S & C as easily. You'll be dependent on players doing it themselves in a lot of cases, and you are dealing with young lads, some will do it, some will half do it, and even for the ones that do it there is no substitute for oversight and direct mentoring throughout a process like that.
There is probably no way to say the above without it sounding like a big bag of excuses but I'm just trying to outline some of the reasons why they may be a bit ahead. That is not to take away from everything else that Dublin do so well in terms of game planning, management and just general execution. It's really impressive and it's why I don't see them being beaten this year.
Next year is a whole other story and things can change quickly.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 06/12/2020 01:00:31
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Pray for mayo. Tipp won't beat them and if they do anyone whoever thinks tipp will beat the dubs is kidding themselves. We need a mayo win for any, I mean any hope of an upset, they are the only team that have some sort of psych tactics with them...But will they beat Dublin. Most likely...no. But they do have a prayer, Tipp , nope jesus no.
I have been a critic many times of mayo being not able to do a thing then they do stumbling through qualifiers only to come close to Dublin, that is why I pray they win tomorrow. Nice dream for tipp getting to a final but we all know it ends there. Any real GAA fan will want Mayo to do it, only hope. I don't want them losing by a point or two to Dublin again, totally useless. They need to beat them..but it is a prayer. I honestly think if Dublin hammer Mayo this year, rest of football needs to do a captain boycott until the funding is addressed it is a real thing. Dub fan or not, it needs to accepted. Football will fall fast if something is not not done.
For the sake of GAA. Mayo, last hope. After that. Restructuring of currency. End of. Even if they win. This game will die a horrible death. No one wants that. Dublin are great but how can you not be when funding is at far over 200 euro per player in Dub and kerry, us and mayo are roughly in the 20 euro per player mark. Insane, with all these lads travelling home from Dublin for training during the week.
It's not even begrudgery, I just don't want the game to die. Continue like this it will. Simple. Plain and simple.
GAA are digging a grave for themselves.
Up Mayo for the sake of our souls. And reform regardless.
GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 06/12/2020 01:06:27
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "After trying to watch Dublin V Cavan, the word "turn over" word used yet and yet again, showing that Dublin may as well go and play rugby such is the fear of loosing posession, People will come on here and say they are great and professional and all that, and they are at the game they play, but they have football destroyed, I think even with a crowd in Croke Park this evening (where the game should not be played by the way as far as I am concerned) that game was as shocking to look at as any other Dublin game...rather than loose posession, they would kick the ball the whole way back down the field, again, fair dues its within the rules, but they are as boring as hell at this stage, the referee in the main "walking" around the field such was the time he had on his hands...I hope, for the sake of football, Mayo or Tipperary win, and if this crap Dublin are offering up continues and they continue to dominate as a result, the rules need looking at, as teams are genuinely going out to try and play against them (as Cavan did) but Dublin were more interested in just getting the ball, hang onto it for the 3/4 minutes it took to get into a shooting position (hoping to be fouled if possible)...if that is football, good luck, because I and I think may more are fed up with it..fair enough Dublin have it down to an "art" as people say, but the art is as boring, and over played now..thank God no other team has mastered it or we would be finished (Cork managed luckily to beat Kerry with it this year, and tried again unsucessfully against Tipp)....hopefully soon we might get two teams who will go out and decide to play football for the first time in years, because this is finishing football...Dublin winning 6 All Irelands possibly playing that type of "football"...let them off....hopefully football will be back in the years to come..." Dublin have perfected it but this rubbish started years ago. My own county is guilty of it.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 06/12/2020 02:22:18
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Mighty men from cavan the answer is very simple the dubs are a professional out fit looked after with all that money can buy and money can pay for. To look at there players they look the same as the aussie rules boys and the aussie are all paid professionals so as I and some of my county men have been saying for a while dublin are playing and living as prefessional sportsmen. There lays your answer to the dubs superperior fitness because it surly is. Not there abundance of skill over any other county. I'm sad to say one of the people responsible for this fiasco is our ex president our own Sean Kelly. Good luck to you my cavan gael friends. Keep the faith and keep playing Gaa for the right reasons the promotion of our country. Ciarrai abu
traleegerry (Kerry) - Posts: 738 - 06/12/2020 07:07:23
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Mighty men from cavan the answer is very simple the dubs are a professional out fit looked after with all that money can buy and money can pay for. To look at there players they look the same as the aussie rules boys and the aussie are all paid professionals so as I and some of my county men have been saying for a while dublin are playing and living as prefessional sportsmen. There lays your answer to the dubs superperior fitness because it surly is. Not there abundance of skill over any other county. I'm sad to say one of the people responsible for this fiasco is our ex president our own Sean Kelly. Good luck to you my cavan gael friends. Keep the faith and keep playing Gaa for the right reasons the promotion of our country. Ciarrai abu
traleegerry (Kerry) - Posts: 738 - 06/12/2020 07:07:36
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Replying To WanPintWin: "Part of it might be due to the much larger pick, they're going to have more elite athletes, simply due to numbers. There are levels to everything, so in terms of the best athletes, if you have 500 at that level vs 100 in another county, you're likely to get more good footballers in the 500 to go with the athleticism.
I disagree with the separate comments made above about poor skill levels though. Any look at games now versus 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ago or before, shows skill levels way beyond what they were. The number of players who can kick scores off their weaker foot now for example, is miles ahead of what it was.
That's a different argument to the style of play though. I agree that the maintain possession at all costs style can be mindnumbing at times. It is up to the opposing team to pressure further up the pitch to stop this however. Cavan obviously couldn't do that in numbers today, as it could have left them very open early on." Whatever about the arguments, simply compare the entertainment of Dublin v Cavan to Limerick v Galway or Kilkenny v Waterford last week let's face it its a good job for football nobody is allowed in because only a few Dubs would go to watch this rubbish
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1733 - 06/12/2020 07:54:42
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Replying To WanPintWin: "Part of it might be due to the much larger pick, they're going to have more elite athletes, simply due to numbers. There are levels to everything, so in terms of the best athletes, if you have 500 at that level vs 100 in another county, you're likely to get more good footballers in the 500 to go with the athleticism.
I disagree with the separate comments made above about poor skill levels though. Any look at games now versus 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ago or before, shows skill levels way beyond what they were. The number of players who can kick scores off their weaker foot now for example, is miles ahead of what it was.
That's a different argument to the style of play though. I agree that the maintain possession at all costs style can be mindnumbing at times. It is up to the opposing team to pressure further up the pitch to stop this however. Cavan obviously couldn't do that in numbers today, as it could have left them very open early on." You're 100% right. Its a numbers thing.
And how do you keep such a high number of players operating at such a level? It's going to cost money. Money that 1 county has and the others don't.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5276 - 06/12/2020 08:17:33
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Replying To realdub: "Its a secret, and only ourselves, Mayo and Kerry know what it is." Ya cause Mayo kept up with ye in last years semi in the second half... No it's just Dublin..
Galwaymaster9 (Galway) - Posts: 397 - 06/12/2020 08:26:52
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "After trying to watch Dublin V Cavan, the word "turn over" word used yet and yet again, showing that Dublin may as well go and play rugby such is the fear of loosing posession, People will come on here and say they are great and professional and all that, and they are at the game they play, but they have football destroyed, I think even with a crowd in Croke Park this evening (where the game should not be played by the way as far as I am concerned) that game was as shocking to look at as any other Dublin game...rather than loose posession, they would kick the ball the whole way back down the field, again, fair dues its within the rules, but they are as boring as hell at this stage, the referee in the main "walking" around the field such was the time he had on his hands...I hope, for the sake of football, Mayo or Tipperary win, and if this crap Dublin are offering up continues and they continue to dominate as a result, the rules need looking at, as teams are genuinely going out to try and play against them (as Cavan did) but Dublin were more interested in just getting the ball, hang onto it for the 3/4 minutes it took to get into a shooting position (hoping to be fouled if possible)...if that is football, good luck, because I and I think may more are fed up with it..fair enough Dublin have it down to an "art" as people say, but the art is as boring, and over played now..thank God no other team has mastered it or we would be finished (Cork managed luckily to beat Kerry with it this year, and tried again unsucessfully against Tipp)....hopefully soon we might get two teams who will go out and decide to play football for the first time in years, because this is finishing football...Dublin winning 6 All Irelands possibly playing that type of "football"...let them off....hopefully football will be back in the years to come..." Agree 100%. The game as it was played for decades, has been destroyed.
Mayo52 (Mayo) - Posts: 44 - 06/12/2020 08:58:51
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I think it was Sean Kelly who finished it off in early 00s. He was boasting about it on Twitter last night. Some legacy for a Kerry man.
My children will be playing soccer and basketball. Their father and both grandfathers played intercounty football with Meath, Kildare and Cavan respectively. That tradition and aspiration be discontinued. Thanks again Sean and rest of GAA decision makers.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 06/12/2020 09:05:30
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Replying To TobinsBeard: "They have better athletes and players plain and simple. Brian Fenton is the best midfielder ever to play the game Its nothing to do with the training work the teams are doing which is probably similar amongst all the top teams. They have better players because of a mix of greater playing numbers and better coaching / facilities and probably better retention of juvenile players into adulthood." Exactly. If Conor Nash (an athlete not too dissimilar to Fenton) is from Dublin, he doesn't go to Australia. Nor does Cian McBride. That's both of Meath's best midfielders gone forever until next generation.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 06/12/2020 09:10:32
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There are a number of Dublin players who'd have been amongst the best of all time in any era and likely the best despite the team they played for - Cluxton, Fenton, Rock, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Connolly to name a few off the top of my head, genuine excellent players. It's why I still think we're seeing an unique group of players and hope when these players all move on Dublin will starting falling into the pack.
What is a concern though is the strength and conditioning, it's as obvious to to the man on the street this Dublin team are on a completly different level when it comes to conditioning; poor Cavan last night aren't a small team but simply couldn't get near Dublin, who just walked through them. There is one thing hitting the gym 3 or 4 nights a week but a completly different thing having the countries best strength and conditioning coaches within a profession set up looking after you; putting a personal tailored programme in place to suit your personal make up and what is required for your sport.
There aren't many counties who'll have the finance to keep up with that type of set up; there is a lot of money in Kerry and Mayo; and we already see full time strength and conditioning coaches there with the aim to build players that initially are just able to be on the field with Dublin before they can start thinking about football. 28 or 29 teams in the country are beaten by Dublin because of the conditioning; even if they had decent footballers they wouldn't compete, we seen that last night so in that sense football is finished in terms of new teams coming through to win the All Ireland.
You need money to enter the party and local fundraising or a generous local business is not what's required any longer so in that sense football as we've known it is finished at the very top level.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 06/12/2020 09:15:21
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Replying To waynoI: "I hope these threads continue from now til the end of time. If were provoking threads like this then were going alright. Much prefer these posts to the ones circa 2008/9 when we were slaughtered and ridiculed for our population and lack of success getting battered to pieces against the top teams. Life comes at you fast folks." Wake up and smell the coffee Wayne. This is not going to end. The Leinster championship is dead. The All Ireland championship is going the same way. It too will soon be dead. It is impossible for counties to compete. Once the competitiveness is ripped from a championship then that championship dies. The GAA have facilitated this. They now need to act. I genuinely don't know what they can do. It is not just a Dublin team that needs to be addressed. It is a magnificently efficient and effective organisation. The GAA initiated this on the basis of the dubious premise that we needed a successful Dublin and Dublin GAA was underperforming. Right now the championships need to be rescued from Dublin's overwhelming dominance otherwise they will die.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 06/12/2020 09:17:14
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Replying To waynoI: "I hope these threads continue from now til the end of time. If were provoking threads like this then were going alright. Much prefer these posts to the ones circa 2008/9 when we were slaughtered and ridiculed for our population and lack of success getting battered to pieces against the top teams. Life comes at you fast folks." You don't get it do you?...nobody's watching anymore..was there an all Ireland semi final played yesterday...didn't bother watching it.
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 06/12/2020 09:38:23
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So, for those of ye bemoaning the Dubs' possession based style, what's the answer to opening the game up? A shot clock once you're inside the opponents' 45?
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 06/12/2020 09:38:56
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I think Kerry have 35 All-Irelands and not a peep about them. This winning patch for Dublin will not last but FairPlay to the Dubs. I actually think that Ciaran Kilkenny and Rock are the match winners every time.
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1753 - 06/12/2020 09:46:31
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No man to man battles anymore either, defending as 1 unit takes the pressure off backs . Gals into the corner now for the corner forward to win are over, it's walk it in to the kicking zone and shoot. Then defend in numbers , crowd until you win possession and walk it in to kicking zone and score. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Time for forwards to stay forward and backs to stay back and let players battle for it.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2351 - 06/12/2020 09:47:47
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