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Peter Keane The Future?

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He's made some poor decisions since the drawn game v Dublin But so have his players at crucial times Moran especially If rumours are true tis a bit rich for Moran to be questioning Peter Keane I think Keane deserves another chance to put things right Jim Gavin got the opportunity after 2014 when he got his tactics wrong and had Dublin ill prepared and unbalanced against Donegal Kerry absolutely pressed the self destruct button against Cork, but it wasn't just on the side line. There's a collective responsibility and a number of Kerry players have to look at themselves too. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 29/11/2020 12:42:42 2316444 Link
Once you lose the dressing room you are finished, I think many Kerry fans seem to have lost faith in Keane too, this only ends one way, the sooner the better for Kerry football. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2757 - 30/11/2020 19:57:28 2317130 Link
Replying To sam1884: "From the outside looking in he got his tactics spot on in last years first All Ireland Final and but for a bit of luck and one or two 50/50 decisions would have won the All Ireland, stopped the 5 in a row and in likeihood he and his team would have been lauded for generations in Kerry as achieving the most significant All Ireland in decades. Now I'm not sure what impact Buckley had in that attempt and if he had more a say that it would appear the case from the outside. He made a big mistake against Cork but even with those tactics Kerry hit awful wides that you can't count for despite the tactics. Look we know the Cork game was used as preparation for Dublin; he had a system worked out he thought would ultimately beat Dublin; sadly for him knock out championship leaves no room for mistakes and I'm sure he'll learn from it - would be harsh if he wasn't allowed to finish his three year term." That's one way of looking at it, but it's also true that his team played against 14 men for more than half of the drawn final and couldn't close the deal. A point up with very little time left, they got turned over 4 times by Dublin, who eventually kicked the leveller. Dublin would have won if they kicked any of the other 3 chances they had from those turnovers. They were beaten fairly well in the replay in the end. He had clearly been working on making Kerry more defensively solid, which obviously makes sense, but I think he has been too cautious at times. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2050 - 30/11/2020 20:14:06 2317135 Link
Find this whole story surprising enough to be honest. I think Kerry under Keane have looked very good and the Cork game was a fluke really. Pushed Dublin to the limit over two games last year, played some great stuff. As others have said, if he has lost the dressing room then nothing he has done will matter. But I do find it odd enough that they're turning on him so quickly with plenty of evidence that he could take them to Sam Maguire. Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 30/11/2020 21:53:39 2317167 Link
Replying To Donegal_abroad: "Find this whole story surprising enough to be honest. I think Kerry under Keane have looked very good and the Cork game was a fluke really. Pushed Dublin to the limit over two games last year, played some great stuff. As others have said, if he has lost the dressing room then nothing he has done will matter. But I do find it odd enough that they're turning on him so quickly with plenty of evidence that he could take them to Sam Maguire." Hi Donegal. I find it strange myself and I see some ex players are saying the story is totally exaggerated. Something is going on nut maybe not as bad as we think. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 30/11/2020 22:32:21 2317180 Link
I don't think the result against cork was the issue but the way they lined out and how they set up, you could see by the reaction of Colm cooper before the game that he was not happy I'd imagine that would be mirrored in the dressing room. What I don't understand is why the change, Kerry came so close to Dublin last year playing some great football, then come out this year as negative as you could be, I'm glad they were knocked out because that was not going to be nice to watch Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1596 - 30/11/2020 23:03:48 2317188 Link
I don't think the result against cork was the issue but the way they lined out and how they set up, you could see by the reaction of Colm cooper before the game that he was not happy I'd imagine that would be mirrored in the dressing room. What I don't understand is why the change, Kerry came so close to Dublin last year playing some great football, then come out this year as negative as you could be, I'm glad they were knocked out because that was not going to be nice to watch Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1596 - 30/11/2020 23:08:37 2317191 Link
Rightly or wrongly, the Cork game could be viewed as a defeat too far. Though in fairness I don't hear of any similar mutterings in Donegal essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 01/12/2020 01:37:23 2317208 Link
Replying To Donegal_abroad: "Find this whole story surprising enough to be honest. I think Kerry under Keane have looked very good and the Cork game was a fluke really. Pushed Dublin to the limit over two games last year, played some great stuff. As others have said, if he has lost the dressing room then nothing he has done will matter. But I do find it odd enough that they're turning on him so quickly with plenty of evidence that he could take them to Sam Maguire." No sure about that. Have gone massively down hill since Buckley departed. Since the restart they beat a middling Monaghan team were drew with a poor Meath team and lost to Cavan after. Kerry hammered Donegal's reserves and lost to a poor Cork side and set out playing only 4 forwards. I think Keane has been a disaster since he decided he wanted rid of Buckley and I am surprised he hasn't been given the boot. When he made such a big decision to get rid of one of the best coaches in the country he needed his team to show improvement but the opposite has happened. Had Fitzmaurice lost to a Cork side of that standard who wouldn't have survived the night not sure how Keane has. sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1149 - 01/12/2020 08:44:56 2317226 Link
Kerry, regardless of who is manager, has fallen into the trap of trying to play a defensive game which is alien to the way that they play or sticking with their traditional game. The management got it completely wrong against Cork and paid the price. The management is on thin ice and will need to get it right in 2021 or they will be gone but I think he will get a second chance as there doesn't appear to be a ready made replacement to take over plus changing manager of an intercounty team in the modern day is not as straightforward as it seems. I think Keane should stick to play more offensive especially with the players he has and focus less on being so negative. Galway made a similar mistake after lockdown when they appear to change style. They got great results before lockdown when they were playing offensively. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 01/12/2020 09:42:42 2317232 Link
Replying To sligo joe: "And set up Murchan for his goal last year," Correct and also kicked a few wides in second half of last years AI when Kerry had a couple of the most accurate forwards in the game playing alongside him. Keane did not lose the AI, nor the game against Cork-few poor decisions made by a few players under difficult conditions. Big catches are fine but not very good when you give the ball away. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 01/12/2020 11:09:59 2317259 Link
What's the story with everyone abusing David Moran on a hearsay rumour? He is getting on now but was a top class player. Bashing him because of a Whatsapp message is a bit petty sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1149 - 01/12/2020 11:41:33 2317273 Link
Replying To sourmilk93: "What's the story with everyone abusing David Moran on a hearsay rumour? He is getting on now but was a top class player. Bashing him because of a Whatsapp message is a bit petty" Yeah a bit unfair on Moran, one of the best midfielders of the era IMO. But somebody on the inside is telling tales and has an agenda. Once you have that rot in the core it's hard to turn it around and win the dressing room back. What happens in the dressing room should stay in the dressing room but Moran getting a lot of bad press for it. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 01/12/2020 12:48:13 2317295 Link
Replying To sourmilk93: "No sure about that. Have gone massively down hill since Buckley departed. Since the restart they beat a middling Monaghan team were drew with a poor Meath team and lost to Cavan after. Kerry hammered Donegal's reserves and lost to a poor Cork side and set out playing only 4 forwards. I think Keane has been a disaster since he decided he wanted rid of Buckley and I am surprised he hasn't been given the boot. When he made such a big decision to get rid of one of the best coaches in the country he needed his team to show improvement but the opposite has happened. Had Fitzmaurice lost to a Cork side of that standard who wouldn't have survived the night not sure how Keane has." Fair points there. I suppose I'm basing it on his first full season where they made an All Ireland final replay. The Cork game was straight knockout, no back door and no super 8. Winter football, a once off scenario where they got pipped. They played poorly but how much of that is to be laid at his feet tactically? Clifford missed a few sitters up front that night and also scored some wonderful points. Did he tactically ask his players not to press the cork players hard enough in the tackle? Or was that their own failure.. they nearly won the game and then would possibly have improved to make an All Ireland final.. they got caught I feel due to awful weather and their own slackness. I definitely feel he should get one more year. Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 01/12/2020 13:10:39 2317300 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "Kerry, regardless of who is manager, has fallen into the trap of trying to play a defensive game which is alien to the way that they play or sticking with their traditional game. The management got it completely wrong against Cork and paid the price. The management is on thin ice and will need to get it right in 2021 or they will be gone but I think he will get a second chance as there doesn't appear to be a ready made replacement to take over plus changing manager of an intercounty team in the modern day is not as straightforward as it seems. I think Keane should stick to play more offensive especially with the players he has and focus less on being so negative. Galway made a similar mistake after lockdown when they appear to change style. They got great results before lockdown when they were playing offensively." Just curious wicklowsupport, how you think Galway changed their style after lockdown? My reading is that they had some injuries to key players, plus after the lockdown the pace of the league games was championship level, so either they were caught out by that or some of the players who were selected were individually found out. I don't think PJ changed philosophy and to be fair Galway didn't go defensive. What Keane did on the other hand is harder to fathom. If he planned to change style or tactics after last year then that surely should have been something for the early rounds of the league. Maybe he was trying to adapt to a game plan that he felt would better suit his players in winter conditions? He's not stupid so I'm thinking that's what he was attempting and he just got caught out in the first game when players would have been trying to adapt. Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 01/12/2020 14:02:14 2317312 Link
Replying To Pericles: "Just curious wicklowsupport, how you think Galway changed their style after lockdown? My reading is that they had some injuries to key players, plus after the lockdown the pace of the league games was championship level, so either they were caught out by that or some of the players who were selected were individually found out. I don't think PJ changed philosophy and to be fair Galway didn't go defensive. What Keane did on the other hand is harder to fathom. If he planned to change style or tactics after last year then that surely should have been something for the early rounds of the league. Maybe he was trying to adapt to a game plan that he felt would better suit his players in winter conditions? He's not stupid so I'm thinking that's what he was attempting and he just got caught out in the first game when players would have been trying to adapt." You could be right in relation to Galway, maybe it was related to players not being available. I thought looking at Galway post lockdown that they weren't committing as many players forward in the same way as before lockdown, as you say, this could be down to players availability or the fact that other teams were fitter and more up to championship pace; I suppose we will only know next year in this regard. In relation to Kerry and Keane, Keane seem to deploy a more defensive approach in Kerry's game with Monaghan. Maybe he thought that they would get over Cork and win Munster and had one eye on how he was going to approach a potential final against Dublin but that if so, this was naive considering it was a knock out game and the conditions were so bad. I think if he had picked the right team and played a more traditional style i.e. let the ball in to their inside forward then Kerry would have won with a bit to spare as I don't think Cork are in Kerry's class as was subsequently proven against Tipperary. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1916 - 01/12/2020 15:20:09 2317339 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "You could be right in relation to Galway, maybe it was related to players not being available. I thought looking at Galway post lockdown that they weren't committing as many players forward in the same way as before lockdown, as you say, this could be down to players availability or the fact that other teams were fitter and more up to championship pace; I suppose we will only know next year in this regard. In relation to Kerry and Keane, Keane seem to deploy a more defensive approach in Kerry's game with Monaghan. Maybe he thought that they would get over Cork and win Munster and had one eye on how he was going to approach a potential final against Dublin but that if so, this was naive considering it was a knock out game and the conditions were so bad. I think if he had picked the right team and played a more traditional style i.e. let the ball in to their inside forward then Kerry would have won with a bit to spare as I don't think Cork are in Kerry's class as was subsequently proven against Tipperary." I agree, I think it was the one eye on the Dubs which largely skewed everything, although had the championship been played in the summer I don't believe the tactical change would ever have seen the light of day. With hindsight he probably over-thought the conditions and potential opponents... we'll never know how things would have worked out later because Cork re-railed them right at the starting line. In addition to the Dubs he might have been influenced a bit by the increase of pace in the Mayo halfback line and was playing things safe believing that 4 scoring forwards would be the best formula if they were to meet in a semi-final. All speculation. Had they hung on against Cork we might have seen a more polished rendition of the new tactics in the Munster final. Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 01/12/2020 16:00:34 2317355 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "You could be right in relation to Galway, maybe it was related to players not being available. I thought looking at Galway post lockdown that they weren't committing as many players forward in the same way as before lockdown, as you say, this could be down to players availability or the fact that other teams were fitter and more up to championship pace; I suppose we will only know next year in this regard. In relation to Kerry and Keane, Keane seem to deploy a more defensive approach in Kerry's game with Monaghan. Maybe he thought that they would get over Cork and win Munster and had one eye on how he was going to approach a potential final against Dublin but that if so, this was naive considering it was a knock out game and the conditions were so bad. I think if he had picked the right team and played a more traditional style i.e. let the ball in to their inside forward then Kerry would have won with a bit to spare as I don't think Cork are in Kerry's class as was subsequently proven against Tipperary." Pre Lockdown Kerry had Buckley the best defensive/Tackling coach in the country. Post they didn't and Keane had to implement a defensive system to make up for it. This involved him playing 2 defensive minded players at wing forward. Last year Kerry went man for man and were a whisper away. They had done this by improving their defenders tackling through coaching and thrusted them like Mayo have done down the years when Buckley was involved. sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1149 - 01/12/2020 16:55:51 2317378 Link
you don't drop your best full back after one bad game, same applies here theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 01/12/2020 17:42:34 2317394 Link
I was sceptical Of Peter Keane before the Cork game and stated this on the Kerry forum. I also gave out about his selection in the half forward line. I was very worried about Cork in pairc Uí Caoimh on a wet evening and it came to pass. Having said that our defense played very well but of course we lost attacking power in the process. Sourmilk makes valid points on Donie Buckley and he did play under him so I have to respect his view. On Keane in the interest of fairness I'd give him another chance and see how it goes. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 01/12/2020 18:02:26 2317401 Link