National Forum

GAA Funding And Fairness

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Replying To ulsterrules:  "In those very same accounts Dublin made an operating profit of approx €1m while kerry made a profit of €0.14m .


Dublin GAA's commercial juggernaut has crashed through the €2m mark for 2019, climbing to €2,355,250 from €1,553,394 in 2018.

It is an eye-watering return that puts all their rivals so far in the shade with the power of their brand increasing all the time.

Even when the standard €185,000 that all counties get from the GAA's central sponsorship and media rights dividend is stripped out of the overall pot, the revenue from sponsors, led by AIG, amounts to €2,170,250.

With deals that cover hotel, car, water, flight, gear, nutrition and menswear among other things, Dublin continue to operate on another level from the rest when it comes to commercial engagement.

By contrast, their nearest football rivals Kerry took in €786,000 in commercial revenue while Cork, the biggest county in terms of clubs, generated €639,500 as money from main sponsors Chill Insurance dropped from €400,000 to €330,000"
Yeah the headlines are fairly meaningless really. You'd need to do a review of the Balance Sheet and P & L for both to make any sort of reasonable comparison, debts, grants, commercial and other income etc. Dublin also has a number of CLG's registered to run things as far as I know, those numbers probably don't even account for all income.

Worth noting Kerry's revenue the previous year was much lower at €3.5 m and they are also trying to service debts of €3m on their Curran's facility. My understanding is that they had to cut back on certain expenses this year such as physical therapy and nutrition etc. Not that they are badly off or anything, they are absolutely one of the better off counties, but they certainly don't have money to burn.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/12/2020 20:59:40    2319492

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Replying To ulsterrules:  "In those very same accounts Dublin made an operating profit of approx €1m while kerry made a profit of €0.14m .


Dublin GAA's commercial juggernaut has crashed through the €2m mark for 2019, climbing to €2,355,250 from €1,553,394 in 2018.

It is an eye-watering return that puts all their rivals so far in the shade with the power of their brand increasing all the time.

Even when the standard €185,000 that all counties get from the GAA's central sponsorship and media rights dividend is stripped out of the overall pot, the revenue from sponsors, led by AIG, amounts to €2,170,250.

With deals that cover hotel, car, water, flight, gear, nutrition and menswear among other things, Dublin continue to operate on another level from the rest when it comes to commercial engagement.

By contrast, their nearest football rivals Kerry took in €786,000 in commercial revenue while Cork, the biggest county in terms of clubs, generated €639,500 as money from main sponsors Chill Insurance dropped from €400,000 to €330,000"
Maths was never my strong point but a county with €1.2 m people making only 1.5 times the amount of a county with 150,000 people isn't exactly excessive. Kerry, led by the Kerry Group have 14 sponsors which weren't listed above.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-30947162.html%3ftype=amp

There are many, many counties on this Island of ours that have legitimate reasons for being left behind. Kerry is not one of them.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 06/12/2020 21:19:55    2319508

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Fair play Mick, we're not all here to agree.

I tend not to look at County you are from, but rather how people treat others as sports people then decide if I want to interact with them. I decided a long time ago to ignore the majority of Kerry posters on here, that has nothing to do with a lack of respect for Kerry GAA which I have a lot of admiration for. But rather the people involved and not being interested in them as people, their as I don't respect how they are as sports/people or their opinions and prefer not to interact with them.

You've been a very welcome addition on as even if we don't agree, we can make our points without the personalised stuff you see from some above. I was always thought to play the ball not the man and to win and loose with humility and dignity.

The internet is a simple game, interact with people you want to, have fun and ignore the morons, don't take it all to seriously."
Nice one Username

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 06/12/2020 21:31:56    2319516

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Right so we are at the point were income figures don't matter, it's about profit and loss and what it's spent on. So that's all the Dublin irrelevant then.

So now we are at the point we're "it's someone understanding" Dublin have separate companies set up, as not to declare their income. Right so. Can we name these companies please.

Also laughing here at the minimising of Kerry financial figures, Kerry cut back on nutrition and physical training, with an income touching 6 mill euro, haha. Even if that were true the county board should be sacked if they can't fund nutrition and physical trading, with an income touching 6 mill, while they also made up about 50k for the players to go on Holiday to Thailand at a cost of 300k. Ground control to major Tom stuff.

And while I'm at it, you can forget about Curran's, huge capital grants from Kerry Group, Munster Council and Central funds, 5k a plate fundraising dinner in the Plaza in New York, that Jimmy Dennihan, then minister happened to drop in on. €7 million cost.

Compare that Dublin having to pay €9 mill & €16 million for Hollystown - just for land to have centres of excellence, with no capital grants.

I've no problem with Kerry's big income, I'm just applying it to the debate in competitiveness and advantages and we're all to long in the tooth to fall for the yerraing, on doing the poor mouth on it.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 21:40:08    2319524

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Someone mentioned earlier about profit. Another reason the likes of Kerry had nt big profit is because of location. Last year for example Kerry played super 8 game in CP semi in CP and two finals and Meath in Navan meaning large hotel bills for panel and backroom teams and travel etc.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 06/12/2020 21:41:30    2319527

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Right so we are at the point were income figures don't matter, it's about profit and loss and what it's spent on. So that's all the Dublin irrelevant then.

So now we are at the point we're "it's someone understanding" Dublin have separate companies set up, as not to declare their income. Right so. Can we name these companies please.

Also laughing here at the minimising of Kerry financial figures, Kerry cut back on nutrition and physical training, with an income touching 6 mill euro, haha. Even if that were true the county board should be sacked if they can't fund nutrition and physical trading, with an income touching 6 mill, while they also made up about 50k for the players to go on Holiday to Thailand at a cost of 300k. Ground control to major Tom stuff.

And while I'm at it, you can forget about Curran's, huge capital grants from Kerry Group, Munster Council and Central funds, 5k a plate fundraising dinner in the Plaza in New York, that Jimmy Dennihan, then minister happened to drop in on. €7 million cost.

Compare that Dublin having to pay €9 mill & €16 million for Hollystown - just for land to have centres of excellence, with no capital grants.

I've no problem with Kerry's big income, I'm just applying it to the debate in competitiveness and advantages and we're all to long in the tooth to fall for the yerraing, on doing the poor mouth on it."
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Seeing as being able to use google is all that is required to show you are smarter than everyone else.... you picked one anomalous year and try to say it is the norm. Btw if you don't understand the difference between revenue and profit I can't help you I am afraid.

Seeing as Dublin are so transparent can you post a usable link to the financial statements, I can't seem to find them online. I will quickly be able to tell you if there are linked enterprises, if not, I will stand corrected.

Your grandstanding and playing gotcha based regurgitating a short newspaper article with minimal information in it and trying to make out you have done all this background research is gas. You are one hell of a bluffer, I will give you that.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/12/2020 22:07:34    2319534

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Replying To Jackeen:  "Maths was never my strong point but a county with €1.2 m people making only 1.5 times the amount of a county with 150,000 people isn't exactly excessive. Kerry, led by the Kerry Group have 14 sponsors which weren't listed above.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-30947162.html%3ftype=amp

There are many, many counties on this Island of ours that have legitimate reasons for being left behind. Kerry is not one of them."
Maths doesn't need to be your strong point to work out which situation you would prefer financially.

Dublin income: 2019: €5.25 mill, to operate GAA for 1.345million people.

Kerry income 2019: €6.14mill to operate GAA for 147k people.

If you landed in Ireland tonight and knew nothing about GAA which county would you think need intervention from the GAA in terms of financial fairness.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 22:17:28    2319540

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Someone mentioned earlier about profit. Another reason the likes of Kerry had nt big profit is because of location. Last year for example Kerry played super 8 game in CP semi in CP and two finals and Meath in Navan meaning large hotel bills for panel and backroom teams and travel etc."
Don't get me wrong Mick, I don't resent Kerry's big income in any way, nor Curran's or IT Tralee etc, fair play to Kerry, I'm delighted for them. I'm just providing a comparison of facts based on calls of sporting unfairness and competitiveness about Dublin, you know I don't accept.

We've often said that Counties have natural advantages and disadvantages the cost of travel and accommodation in one for Kerry. But then you look at the cost of Curran's Vs Spawell and Hollystown. It's 7 mill land and finished facility via 3 mill in capital grants for Kerry GAA vs 24 mill and no capital grants just for the land for the DCB.

Again I don't begrudge Kerry any of that, nor moaning about poor us, I'm just providing context and I hope balance to the debate.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 22:27:11    2319544

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My first post on this subject. Split Dublin is bull., they have a phenomenal football team at the moment but there hurling team is average. Why cant Dublin be All Ireland contenders in Hurling. The problem with the GAA is they are money driven so wont get rid of proventual championship which are a joke in both codes. We need a champions league format for both codes and knockout after group stages.

heartbroken (Galway) - Posts: 370 - 06/12/2020 22:58:17    2319557

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To answer pat Gilroy question of why Kerry and kilkennys dominance was sifferent to the way dublins dominance is now because kerry or Kilkenny never had a board set up by the GAA with the specific purpose to help them compete. There dominance was all driven from within the county and not a board set up by the GAA in 2003 .

Same reason Galway didnt complain about Corofins dominance in Galway - we didnt like it but it was because of Frank Morris a Corofin man that they dominated for so long - not because the GAA got involved to help them

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 06/12/2020 23:02:05    2319559

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Pat Gilroy was talking sense on Sunday game, no one else has a clue what the issue is even never mind a solution. This is a numbers game, but its not about how much money you have, it is all about what you spend it on. It is clear too the more rural/dospersed your county is, the worse off your county is likely to be, because the numbers are just not there to sustain a Division 1 team. And no amount of money will change this. If Dublin is to be split the other sacred cow will also happen in that some counties will have to amalgemate to compete in championship, end of Provincial system and hopefully you will end up with 16 odd highly competive teams.
BTW Dublin should just go ahead and build that stadiums and to hell with the GAA.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 06/12/2020 23:15:55    2319565

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BTW you claim Dublin GAA acquired land to the value of €25m with no financial aid? With revenues of €5m and profits around €1m? Impossible! And I mean totally impossible. Can you explain how they funded those deals? And that is before they develop those sites, I understand that is moving on and will cost at least the same again.

Not trying to push any conspiracy theories or claim anything improper is going on but anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of finance will know that those figures simply cannot be right.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/12/2020 23:32:42    2319569

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Awful panel, Mcentee as meath manager couldn't put a nose out of joint, Gilroy seemed on another planet while Des is the man who asked Gooch and Cavanagh 2 weeks ago is the leinster championship in trouble.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 06/12/2020 23:32:45    2319570

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Right grand, we're claiming 2019 was a financial anomaly and financial results during a pandemic are the norm now, awful stuff to use a pandemic to minimise and try and push an agenda on a financial debate. In fact that enough interaction, I've no interest in engaging at that low level.

Never change.

Away from Yerra, on a separate note.

I do worry for counties, if Kerry are one of the wealthiest if not the wealthiest counties in GAA and their income has dropped by 3 mill , there are hard times ahead for counties and the association.

I wonder if the 31 mill grant, given by Government for GAA will make much a material difference on County's accounts.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 23:36:16    2319571

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Very interesting listening to pat gilt our tonight,on the offer from Dublin administration to other leinster counties but none took up the offer..is this down to being stubborn or these counties not wanting it known what is going in their own county?i thought gilroy spoke since,identify problems before pumping money..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2226 - 06/12/2020 23:46:25    2319574

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Seán Kelly said job done mission accomplished dublin are saved yeehaw we can all rest easy now and enjoy Christmas and can take you con's picture off the trócaire box.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/12/2020 08:12:18    2319609

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Don't get me wrong Mick, I don't resent Kerry's big income in any way, nor Curran's or IT Tralee etc, fair play to Kerry, I'm delighted for them. I'm just providing a comparison of facts based on calls of sporting unfairness and competitiveness about Dublin, you know I don't accept.

We've often said that Counties have natural advantages and disadvantages the cost of travel and accommodation in one for Kerry. But then you look at the cost of Curran's Vs Spawell and Hollystown. It's 7 mill land and finished facility via 3 mill in capital grants for Kerry GAA vs 24 mill and no capital grants just for the land for the DCB.

Again I don't begrudge Kerry any of that, nor moaning about poor us, I'm just providing context and I hope balance to the debate."
Oh I respect that Username. Also I don't believe for a second the gaa funding is the reason for Dubs success. As Ive said many a time the gaa are wrong the way they do it and now Dubs getting the brunt of it. Kerry have always had plenty of money as do other big counties. I ve no prob with sponsorship etc but I do believe the less fortunate counties should be helped by the gaa more so than the rest of us.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 07/12/2020 08:56:31    2319617

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Right grand, we're claiming 2019 was a financial anomaly and financial results during a pandemic are the norm now, awful stuff to use a pandemic to minimise and try and push an agenda on a financial debate. In fact that enough interaction, I've no interest in engaging at that low level.

Never change.

Away from Yerra, on a separate note.

I do worry for counties, if Kerry are one of the wealthiest if not the wealthiest counties in GAA and their income has dropped by 3 mill , there are hard times ahead for counties and the association.

I wonder if the 31 mill grant, given by Government for GAA will make much a material difference on County's accounts."
2018 income was only just above half of 2019, you are trying to use an exception to prove your point and well you know it. I have never once claimed Kerry are badly off, even on this thread I have said we are one of the more privileged counties.

Can you post a link to the unabridged financial statements for Dublin as requested. You were posting links all over the place not long ago trying to be the hero. It is a reasonable request in the context of the debate and your continuing narrative pushing Dublin as the bastions of transparency. It will only take you a moment.

As I have said above Dublins revenue is miles out of whack with their planned CapEx projects. By your own admission they have spent €25m on land acquisition before they've even broken ground. I'm genuinely intrigued to know how they are paying for it all with so little income relatively speaking. The figures just don't add up.

No doubt you will try to scamper to the high moral ground now because I doubt you have a clue as to the real story beyond a basic google search, but something is seriously amiss in those figures.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 07/12/2020 10:16:39    2319650

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Pat Gilroy who is a very smart man was not really on top of his brief last night. McEntee was a like an auld lad I would meet in the pub after a pint of two shooting the breeze.

Instead of RTE embracing the debate they have made it even worse. Have people forgotten who McEntee managed before Meath. He is hardly a neutral observer. Gilroy performed very poorly and when you add the daft comments of Brogan is it any wonder Gaels around the country think a lot of Dubs don't understand the issues which are clear to everyone else.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 07/12/2020 10:18:03    2319651

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I felt a bit sorry for Andy in fairness, i think its was a bit of mismatch.

I thought Giller made some really good points, stuff ive been saying on here for the past couple of years. Though i would say he got a bit over excited at the end, but anyone who knows him will know hes a passionate man.

Its great that this is getting debated on the national airwaves, would also like to see the GAA involved in the debate as well.

For the alternative point of view, i think they should look elsewhere then Andy id have a lot of time for him as a manager and coach and is a great GAA man, but i thought he was a bit out of his depth, leading out on the that die of the debate last night.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/12/2020 10:35:56    2319664

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