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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "The only reason ye are poor at under 20 is that your county policy is to bring 4 to 5 teams through at under 17 minor level and give them all a chance to play for their county and they can afford to look after them with kit etc. No other county could afford to do this but it insures that they dont let any potential future stars slip through the net. this is why they are less competitive at this age group as they continually rotate the squad." I think you are right as it goes, i think we target for U 20 down as fun and actively promote participation - i dont think that is a bad thing.
Yes we can afford kit for our underage teams, if most counties cant and im surprised by that, then id feel sorry for them, id help them if i could to be honest.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 09:18:50
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "Dublin are taking the whole joy out of winning. Dublin manager on 9 o clock news tonight you would think all belonging to him had just died talk about getting ready for next game doing video analysis on the match to see all the mistakes they had made. its all got too professional to clinical if they were playing newyork in the all ireland final they would be at the same crack no margin of error no stone left unturned but not much sign of any joy or craic." He can't win if he came on and said it was the walk in the park we expected you would be crying outrage
Liffeylad (Dublin) - Posts: 74 - 06/12/2020 09:40:44
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "Dublin are taking the whole joy out of winning. Dublin manager on 9 o clock news tonight you would think all belonging to him had just died talk about getting ready for next game doing video analysis on the match to see all the mistakes they had made. its all got too professional to clinical if they were playing newyork in the all ireland final they would be at the same crack no margin of error no stone left unturned but not much sign of any joy or craic." Well now he's not the most exciting character ever anyway at the best of times!! He's trying to imitate jim Gavin with his methodical methods by the way. Pretending to be real studious etc when in fact Donald Duck would win an all ireland with Dublin. It's akin to managing Celtic when rangers were down the divisions in Scotland.
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 06/12/2020 10:08:39
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Replying To TheUsername: "You are bang on the money Jimbo there is a huge growth in girls playing, in fact i think its probably seen the most exponential growth amongst kids, more so then boys id say. Both codes as well football and Camogie its wonderful and the girls have wonderful role models up here to. Everyone tend s to focus on Mens football but its simply just one starnd of Dublin GAA and the development work done across the codes and genders has been wonderful - has really pinched the need for more lad and facilities though.
I dont know if you ever experienced this as i know you played club too. But i would have grown up in and around the same time as you, i played football for a renown Dublin club (at the time), soccer and Rugby, in all honesty i loved football but was probably better at the other, in particular Rugby - i played that at a decent level. For me, if i togged out for the soccer or Rugby team or went training i wouldn't be picked for my football team. Thats the way it was for me growing up, so i stopped playing football and played soccer and Rugby for years going back to GAA, in my late 20's at a lesser light rural club to help a few mates out and stayed playing for years. I mention it because thats the messing that used to go on up here in Dublin, youd be praying during your Soccer or Rugby match that word wouldn't get back to your club that you played and youd get to tog out and play Football the weekend - youd nearer really know until right before the game. A lot of that messing has stopped to.
Im sure many a decent player was lost under that type of thing, those years were soccer mania with Ireland doing well and we were no slouches at Rugby later on - though Rugby wasn't as popular as it is now. But there was a real exclusion in GAA to anyone who played anything else, i think that has helped to." That happens all over the country unfortunately
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 218 - 06/12/2020 11:12:09
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Replying To joeteor: "That happens all over the country unfortunately" Still?
Id like to think less and less in Dublin.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 11:45:55
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Just on the Dublin clubs employing GDO's/GPO's, most clubs outside of Dublin bar the very big ones in urban areas could not afford to employ them based on numbers & turn over, they would need funding.
Having being involved with two Dublin clubs on the north side in the seventies, eighties & ninties, they were miles ahead in funding even compared to rural clubs around the country today. One club were taking in massive six figure sums back then in their bar & restaurant in the clubhouse on top of massive membership money due to the numbers participating. Before the advent of direct sponsorship, many of these clubs were also having money pumped in to them by individuals within clubs who were involved in the big corporates around Dublin. Many of the pitches were there provided by the various Councils & also maintained by them, so no costs going out on developing pitches. These were super clubs back in those days & yes they were light years ahead of clubs around the country. Nothing much has changed & in fact the funding inequity allied with good organisation has made the gap even greater.
However I do applaud the Dublin organisation in that they put these coaches in place, in other counties the Board make ups were ineffective & just worried about politics & getting re elected. In some counties the financial irregularities that we're going on with monies dissappering & no accountability meant there was no investment. So yes counties especially those on the Boards must take the blame & that is why you don't hear them whinging about it & why their delegates never challenge anything at Congress, too busy putting their own agendas first.
Another factor & probably the main reason why clubs outside of Dublin are unable to employ GDO's/GPO's is the prevalence of the under the counter payments to transient managers. This is a massive blight on the organisation & one in which the GAA are guilty of massively turning a blind eye. Let's not forget Padraic Duffy's (when DG) statement on this when they put a task force together to investigate it. Clubs are pumping huge cash sums raised by volunteers through Lotto's etc directly into the pockets of "Managers/Trainers" who are generally from outside the club, stay a year or two, in 90% of the cases achieve nothing & leave & move on to the next club. This money is mostly undeclared to Revenue & leaves a massive black hole in clubs accounts, leaving bitterness & divison behind as volunteers tire of seeing their hard earned fundraising go into some guys pocket & the coaches internally in the club getting no chance to take the top job. If this money was put forward & added to by a local council, or the GAA or Provincial Council or ISC, PRSI & tax paid then perhaps clubs could start to employ coaches. It would benefit everybody, the clubs, the Exchequer, the kids but no sadly we have an organisation & leadership that hasn't the guts to tackle the scourge choosing to turn a blind eye, nothing to see here & as a result Dublin who are well funded & well organised are creating a massive gap between themselves & others.
I blame the leadership of the GAA, present & past, I also blame Revenue for allowing people escape declaring this income. How many of us have watched a guy coach a team, a man already earning a good salary, who gets a phone, expenses such as fuel etc, equipment & paid a six figure sum under the counter, which is usually then buried in the club accounts at AGM time so members cannot question it. The team he coaches usually has lads who had no employment at the time, to me this is sinful & against all values of the Association. There is no togetherness or community or sense of us all in this together which had being a feature of most clubs, this is now all about one individual, the I, me, what's in it for me brigade. Until the GAA have the balls to put an end to this practice, the hope of ever creating GDO's/GPO's outside of Dublin, are slim.
Anyone whinging about GDO's/GPO's should blame their County Board, Club officers & the GAA leadership first rather than looking at some where which has put the structures in place.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 06/12/2020 12:10:43
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This tweet from Sean Kelly yesterday says it all
Having been centrally involved in getting the funding to strengthen #gaa in Dublin, which @Dubs_gaa has used brilliantly, I can say 'mission accomplished', so why continue with the mission ?? Time for new mission - help other counties before it's too late! #dubvcav @officialgaa
https://twitter.com/seankellymep/status/1335308433004916744?s=21
jimski (Kildare) - Posts: 381 - 06/12/2020 12:21:56
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Replying To moc.dna: "Just on the Dublin clubs employing GDO's/GPO's, most clubs outside of Dublin bar the very big ones in urban areas could not afford to employ them based on numbers & turn over, they would need funding.
Having being involved with two Dublin clubs on the north side in the seventies, eighties & ninties, they were miles ahead in funding even compared to rural clubs around the country today. One club were taking in massive six figure sums back then in their bar & restaurant in the clubhouse on top of massive membership money due to the numbers participating. Before the advent of direct sponsorship, many of these clubs were also having money pumped in to them by individuals within clubs who were involved in the big corporates around Dublin. Many of the pitches were there provided by the various Councils & also maintained by them, so no costs going out on developing pitches. These were super clubs back in those days & yes they were light years ahead of clubs around the country. Nothing much has changed & in fact the funding inequity allied with good organisation has made the gap even greater.
However I do applaud the Dublin organisation in that they put these coaches in place, in other counties the Board make ups were ineffective & just worried about politics & getting re elected. In some counties the financial irregularities that we're going on with monies dissappering & no accountability meant there was no investment. So yes counties especially those on the Boards must take the blame & that is why you don't hear them whinging about it & why their delegates never challenge anything at Congress, too busy putting their own agendas first.
Another factor & probably the main reason why clubs outside of Dublin are unable to employ GDO's/GPO's is the prevalence of the under the counter payments to transient managers. This is a massive blight on the organisation & one in which the GAA are guilty of massively turning a blind eye. Let's not forget Padraic Duffy's (when DG) statement on this when they put a task force together to investigate it. Clubs are pumping huge cash sums raised by volunteers through Lotto's etc directly into the pockets of "Managers/Trainers" who are generally from outside the club, stay a year or two, in 90% of the cases achieve nothing & leave & move on to the next club. This money is mostly undeclared to Revenue & leaves a massive black hole in clubs accounts, leaving bitterness & divison behind as volunteers tire of seeing their hard earned fundraising go into some guys pocket & the coaches internally in the club getting no chance to take the top job. If this money was put forward & added to by a local council, or the GAA or Provincial Council or ISC, PRSI & tax paid then perhaps clubs could start to employ coaches. It would benefit everybody, the clubs, the Exchequer, the kids but no sadly we have an organisation & leadership that hasn't the guts to tackle the scourge choosing to turn a blind eye, nothing to see here & as a result Dublin who are well funded & well organised are creating a massive gap between themselves & others.
I blame the leadership of the GAA, present & past, I also blame Revenue for allowing people escape declaring this income. How many of us have watched a guy coach a team, a man already earning a good salary, who gets a phone, expenses such as fuel etc, equipment & paid a six figure sum under the counter, which is usually then buried in the club accounts at AGM time so members cannot question it. The team he coaches usually has lads who had no employment at the time, to me this is sinful & against all values of the Association. There is no togetherness or community or sense of us all in this together which had being a feature of most clubs, this is now all about one individual, the I, me, what's in it for me brigade. Until the GAA have the balls to put an end to this practice, the hope of ever creating GDO's/GPO's outside of Dublin, are slim.
Anyone whinging about GDO's/GPO's should blame their County Board, Club officers & the GAA leadership first rather than looking at some where which has put the structures in place." Id disagree with your opening paragraph. There are big clubs in Dublin of course and some are well resourced and established but they are in the minority, some club employ more then one GDO/GPA on top of coaching. While some clubs have one and no coaching. Take Ballymun, five Dublin players last night play there, are skint, have less then 500 members but yet are Dublin champions. If you look at the DCB fundraising, they just dont do it, they could - but there is agreement with clubs that the DCb dont fund raise and leave this feild clear for the clubs to fundraise to meet their GDO/GPO obligations.
Its arguable whether this could be achived ruraly, i think your second two paragraphs are accurate. Obviously its a different economy of scale in rural counties and then you have whether coaches want to work rurally and logistically. I dont think its impossible but it starts at home. If Dublins model is palatiable i think more should try it. If counties went to the GAA and said here is what we want, we will fund 50% of it, i think the GAA would look at it.
How many GDO and GPAs would Jack O Connors wages at Kildare bring in or the big inflatable blimp in Mayo for example, you could go on. Yet the answer is always give us more money. In all honesty id start with a root and branch and submitting of audited accounts and five year strategic plans before i was giving many to anyone in the GAA to tey and Dublin model.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/12/2020 12:35:50
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Gaelic games will be predominantly female participated and attended within a generation,,, in urban centres for sure but possibly throughout the country. The increased popularity will see sponsors,, TV schedules and fans move over to the women's game.
There's only so much to go around,, so I find it unlikely that men's teams will be able to access this increased funding they want to help them challenge the dubs.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1721 - 06/12/2020 12:53:43
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Replying To jimski: "This tweet from Sean Kelly yesterday says it all
Having been centrally involved in getting the funding to strengthen #gaa in Dublin, which @Dubs_gaa has used brilliantly, I can say 'mission accomplished', so why continue with the mission ?? Time for new mission - help other counties before it's too late! #dubvcav @officialgaa
https://twitter.com/seankellymep/status/1335308433004916744?s=21" He's a politician now. It worked out well for him.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 06/12/2020 13:00:22
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I for one am getting really tired of this money thing. Everyone has different opinions and breakdowns etc. I don't claim to know the full story and I have read some interesting articles from Username and others on this forum. Now Username I don't agree on all your figures but you make a good argument. On the money Yes the gaa gave Dublin more money than every other county and not because of population (per head) and yes it was and is wrong. The gaa are a national group and they should look after every county properly. But my biggest problem is the money issue is being blamed on Dublin's success. No county will win much without money nowadays but as I've explained before money might make a difference between the top and bottom counties but at the top alot of the counties have plenty of money. My own county received vast amounts of money from sponsorship USA and Kerry group are one of the biggest companies in Europe. No Kerry player wanted for anything and yes because of money they have free gym membership free physios expenses use of swimming pools holidays etc. The difference between Dublin and the other top tier counties at the mó is Dublin are a better team full stop. Very few were complaining about Dublin's money until they started to dominate. That domination will end soon but if other teams have the same attitude as some posters here with a negative attitude it will be a slow end. Once again I will say yes the gaa are wrong but it's very unfair to blame the Dublin team. Money did not make them the team they are. Yes the game is getting a little boring but that's natural when one team is dominating and we all waiting for them to lose. Also I don't get all the doom and gloom. Yes Dublin will more than likely win Sam again this year but a new year is just around the corner and teams will be back challenging again.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 06/12/2020 13:17:36
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Replying To jimbodub: "https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/15m-gaa-funding-boost-for-east-leinster-project-34934104.html" 1.5 million over 3 years for 4 counties. In the same article it states Dublin initially got 1 million per year. That was before they had to match the funding and the ended up getting over 16 milli
And they are advertising for a games promotion panel in these counties...the article was written in 2016 where are these panels it's been 4 years
Thanks for proving my point
If you could actually tell me why the other leinster counties dont deserve the help you got
A dark time for dublin GAA is apparently not getting to an All ireland final then what are meath going through right now
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 06/12/2020 13:18:14
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Replying To jimski: "This tweet from Sean Kelly yesterday says it all
Having been centrally involved in getting the funding to strengthen #gaa in Dublin, which @Dubs_gaa has used brilliantly, I can say 'mission accomplished', so why continue with the mission ?? Time for new mission - help other counties before it's too late! #dubvcav @officialgaa
https://twitter.com/seankellymep/status/1335308433004916744?s=21" They got too much and they never needed help.
All counties should be given the same funds....one thing I will say is Dublin did use the money right and I think if their accounts were audited in the morning theyd have a clean bill of health. Do I think Galway would have used it wisely , no if the past few years are anything to go by absolutely not
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 06/12/2020 13:26:44
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Replying To jimski: "This tweet from Sean Kelly yesterday says it all
Having been centrally involved in getting the funding to strengthen #gaa in Dublin, which @Dubs_gaa has used brilliantly, I can say 'mission accomplished', so why continue with the mission ?? Time for new mission - help other counties before it's too late! #dubvcav @officialgaa
https://twitter.com/seankellymep/status/1335308433004916744?s=21" Too late for that I am afraid. The GAA cannot afford the mission required to rebalance things.
The GAA have used their own funds to destroy the competitiveness of their main competition and main source of revenue. You couldn't make it up. I don't think the enormity of the mistakes that were made have fully come to light yet.
Sean is not the first prominent figure to acknowledge the effect of the funding and state that something needs to be done. It makes a mockery of the denials and misdirection on here, talking about young girls games etc. It will be fascinating to see how it all plays out.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/12/2020 13:36:37
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Replying To galwayfball: "1.5 million over 3 years for 4 counties. In the same article it states Dublin initially got 1 million per year. That was before they had to match the funding and the ended up getting over 16 milli
And they are advertising for a games promotion panel in these counties...the article was written in 2016 where are these panels it's been 4 years
Thanks for proving my point
If you could actually tell me why the other leinster counties dont deserve the help you got
A dark time for dublin GAA is apparently not getting to an All ireland final then what are meath going through right now" Much smaller populations
Giving them the same money Dublin got would be grossly lopsided
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 06/12/2020 14:16:52
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Replying To jimbodub: "Much smaller populations
Giving them the same money Dublin got would be grossly lopsided" Where are the boards to help these counties
The fact that several of ye refer to the dark days of Dublin football as when you could only reach all ireland semi finals and this justified a board being set up to help shows how out of touch you are...for real do you actually think only reaching all ireland semi finals are dark days.
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 06/12/2020 15:22:41
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Too late for that I am afraid. The GAA cannot afford the mission required to rebalance things.
The GAA have used their own funds to destroy the competitiveness of their main competition and main source of revenue. You couldn't make it up. I don't think the enormity of the mistakes that were made have fully come to light yet.
Sean is not the first prominent figure to acknowledge the effect of the funding and state that something needs to be done. It makes a mockery of the denials and misdirection on here, talking about young girls games etc. It will be fascinating to see how it all plays out." It's funny Gerry
There you go again discrediting the dozens of Dublin players that had no access to GDF nothing would be won without those players and all the success was built on their shoulders
The spine of the team coming from Ballymun Kickhams who only survived as a club thanks to the work of a few passionate men, no club house, no fancy bar, small amount of members and a very disadvantaged area.
Look at the players that they've produced. It's incredible work
You've zero balance to your arguments
The registered players funding of numbers is just not accurate and I'm not going to back down from exposing the inaccurate misinformation regarding it.
And why can't I correctly point out that a large % of funding isn't even spent on young boys. It's also spent on Hurling. That really changes the amount of funding that's been accessed to get young boys playing football but only the overall fugure is mentioned. Its just not accurate. There's also been a huge amount of funds pumped in directly from Dublin clubs, that's rarely acknowledged.
So why can't that be addressed exactly?
Again zero balance, just shouting down facts and there's much more going on regarding this subject.
Look at what a real contender is doing to Tipp right now.
Making a laughing stock out Kerrys efforts
Kerry want for absolutely nothing, and have sizeable financial advantages over most.
Fair fecks to Mayo for further exposing the mess that Kerry made of this year's championship.
Mayo hammering a Div 3 side
Where's the outrage.. haha
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 06/12/2020 16:15:57
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Replying To jimbodub: "It's funny Gerry
There you go again discrediting the dozens of Dublin players that had no access to GDF nothing would be won without those players and all the success was built on their shoulders
The spine of the team coming from Ballymun Kickhams who only survived as a club thanks to the work of a few passionate men, no club house, no fancy bar, small amount of members and a very disadvantaged area.
Look at the players that they've produced. It's incredible work
You've zero balance to your arguments
The registered players funding of numbers is just not accurate and I'm not going to back down from exposing the inaccurate misinformation regarding it.
And why can't I correctly point out that a large % of funding isn't even spent on young boys. It's also spent on Hurling. That really changes the amount of funding that's been accessed to get young boys playing football but only the overall fugure is mentioned. Its just not accurate. There's also been a huge amount of funds pumped in directly from Dublin clubs, that's rarely acknowledged.
So why can't that be addressed exactly?
Again zero balance, just shouting down facts and there's much more going on regarding this subject.
Look at what a real contender is doing to Tipp right now.
Making a laughing stock out Kerrys efforts
Kerry want for absolutely nothing, and have sizeable financial advantages over most.
Fair fecks to Mayo for further exposing the mess that Kerry made of this year's championship.
Mayo hammering a Div 3 side
Where's the outrage.. haha" That is just emotive nonsense Jim, a load of straw man waffle about volunteering, nothing of substance whatsoever as usual and then you say others lack balance.
It is funny Jim, I will give you that
Certainly impressive from Mayo today, let's see if they can finish the job in two weeks time.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/12/2020 17:02:11
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Can I ask the question,if it's down to money why are dublin not dominating hurling or even getting to latter stages of minor or under 20/21 competitions?
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2226 - 06/12/2020 17:16:57
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Started from a much lower base, won their first league in 80 years and Leinster in 50 years though.
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 218 - 06/12/2020 17:28:56
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