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It's all about respect .......

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Its very unfortunate - and disappointing - to see some of the threads springing up in the last couple of days following Tyrone's fully deserved All Ireland win. Surely a few months before a ball is kicked in the league leaves plenty of time to discuss these matters? After all the All Ireland final saved what was an otherwise poor championship - a great climax to an indifferent season. And how many sendings off, bookings etc did the Champs pick up - one yellow I think. So the referee saw nothing foul or sinister - nor did the majority of spectators. They did see some niggle and some unsavouries - but mostly they saw great scores, fielding, endeavour, athleticism and commitment. True they may have saw very little sportsmanship but in all honesty I'm struggling to remember much of that from a whole summer of football - never mind one game.

But there is no doubt that every manager and player in this country needs to sit down - alone and together - and ask themselves what direction they want our great game to go. There is no doubt that cynicism reigns - goading, diving, feigning injury, time wasting etc. To suggest this is the preserve of one county or a few counties is disingenuous. To suggest that one or a few counties are the purveyors of these acts is delusional. Indeed one of the problems is that they do seem to bring a degree of success (and this is at a number of different levels) and are therefore more likely to be imitated and spread.

My own county have embarrassed me at times with some of the antics in the last few years - I am not going to say any different. A county where a young Joe McNally was rightly put on the small of his back in his attempt to goad P. Se a few years back. A county where, around the same time, a clearly injured Barney Rock was dragged up by the scruff of the neck by the great Mick Holden RIP and told to get on with it. Different times, but in a lot of ways, better times. Times when men were men (a trite cliché but so true) and had respect for each other and what they were about.

It especially galls me to see great players - and we have some great players today - indulging in these acts. Some will argue they need this element in their game, it makes them the players they are. Sorry, but Jack O'Shea, JB Murphy, Dermot Early, Enda Colleran, Paddy Moriarty, Nudie Hughes, Martin O'Connell, Sean Doherty - all great players - never acted like this, nor never saw the need to act like this.

To me it is all about a word I have mentioned above - respect. It seems to show any to an opponent now is a sign of weakness - this is sad but true.

Every intercounty player surely knows that his counterpart is putting in a phenomenal effort to play for his county - whether he be in Carlow, Clare, Leitrim or Antrim - you would think this might be considered?

continued next post

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 23/09/2008 22:49:39    106121

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continued ........

Much as I don't like following the lead of soccer, the Premiership have initiated a 'respect' campaign this year aimed at getting players to respect officials more.

A similar initiative by the GAA, and maybe a few workshops / conferences might be a good idea now that the season has ended. Bring (a selection of) everyone together - have roadshows around the country - players from all counties, managers, chairmen, officials, referees, fans, even media. Let's get all this out there. Let's find out why it happens and why it is on the increase. Let's hear from those involved themselves how they think it might be curbed or stamped out. Let's see the GPA take a lead role in this - let's see them 'guide' the players in a really important issue that doesn't involve money but instead a much more precious commodity - respect.

Let's tackle the discipline issue as well while we're at it. Let's get rid of the (costly) layers and layers of judges and juries and appeal courts. Let's simplify it. Better still let's encourage the offenders to hold their hands up and say 'fair cop!'

Let's give our games back their manliness, dignity and most importantly - their integrity.

But for this week let's applaud the great champions that are Tyrone. Let's admire their many triumphs over adversity over the years and their hunger and skill and ability. Let's applaud Kerry for the entertainment, the achievements and the standards they have set.

Let the victors be humble in victory and the vanquished gracious in defeat and let the rest of us admire and aspire....

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 23/09/2008 22:53:35    106126

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Just reading about the failure of the campaign in England, and thinking the GAA will need one of those.

Unfortunately, the premiership influence is great, and that is where the diving, gamesmanship, lack of respect was picked up from.

Just one thing however, the best players in Antrim have no intention of playing for the county team. Been like that for years.

Apart from that, good post, but from what I have seen tonight, a cry in the wilderness.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 23/09/2008 23:37:48    106169

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Excellent suggestions Jayo and posted with your usual eloquence. Sadly, this is as far as it will go, unless
somebody has the capability to publish the article in a more widely read forum i.e. national press. I don't know how this can be done, technically, but its' well worth looking into.
On a lighter note, I was watching "Up for the match" on Sat. night and heard Ger Power bracket 4 teams together in one of his observations - Kerry, Tyrone, Galway and yes! you've guessed correctly - LEITRIM !!
You might have allowed me a week in fantasia land at least, before taking over the mantle of RELEGATER.
You're a terrible man altogether!!

Boxtyeater (Leitrim) - Posts: 745 - 23/09/2008 23:46:50    106175

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Just to put a Kerry slant on this and to hold our hands up also. Down here we have been rightly accused of diving and notebook slapping (Which IS a form of abuse towards an umpire) and in all fairness almost all of us were appalled by both of these incidents. No place for them and I'm glad actually now that Galvin did not lift Sam. As for a couple of sending offs that we had, 1 marc o'se's was rightly overturned which left Darragh'2 sending off's. No place for boxing and Darragh was right to get a RED Card but there is no place for nipple pinching either and this kind of stuff has to be pulled with stronger punishment. As for Darraghs first sending off it all happened right in front of me and the refs view point was very very 1 sided throughout the 10 minute spell that this was going on. He was getting an awful amount of abuse, punches in the back, pinching etc and all he did was tap O'Neill on the back on 2 occassions when going up for a high ball to get his second yellow. The ref had warned Darragh but it should have been the other way around. I thought O'Neill was disgraceful that day and had obviously been swapped at half time and given clear instruction to man handle Darragh and take him out of the game. Darragh is no saint either and has a history and we all know that but not really much at fault that day down in Cork. I think all managers should cut out the Diving, I've no doubt that O'Mahony's poor performance in the final had something to do with the inability to handle the embarrassment of the dive. the likes of Galvins carry on has no place in our sports and managers and players shouls start to respect the refereee more. Otherwise it will creep down into our game and become commonplace at grassroots level and if this happens it will never be gotton rid of. Same with the diving. Violence - a physical game with winners playing in very intense circumstances is formula for aggro. I dont condone it but can see how it happens. I know there are a lot of parents out there who consider it too violent for their children which is a shame on the assocciation. Has to be stamped out as much as possible but as we all know has been in our game for a long time now. Maybe stronger penalties will make people think twice. Feigning injury - as unhonourable as diving. No place for it. People jumping up off the ground once a card has been branded. As for the CCCC, DRA etc. This was brought in to ensure internal resolution and stop countys taking decisions to the law courts which was really a disgrace. I think minimum punishment should be given so that there is nothing to appeal. If they want to increase the minimum punishment then that is fine. Only in exceptional circumstances should it go higher than the minimum.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 24/09/2008 07:52:29    106229

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God Jayo thats some read lad, are you a priest by any chance !

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/09/2008 09:27:26    106254

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Jayo....you could have been a writer on Dawsons Creek with all those big words.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/09/2008 09:31:18    106259

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Well said Jayo.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 24/09/2008 10:02:59    106285

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Just coming to terms with game now.never been so gutted after a game.
was a great game,but alittle disppointed with way we lost i nin last few mins
Fair play to Tyrone,thought ye deserved it in the finish.
a few unsavoury incidents during the game but by both teams,unfortunately it the norm now.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 24/09/2008 10:03:05    106286

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God Jayo thats some read lad, are you a priest by any chance !
Cavan_Slasher , 24/09/2008 at 09:27
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I'm not Slasher but it has been said to me that I'd say mass!!!

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 24/09/2008 10:27:46    106312

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Well given the threads and posts we've had since Sunday I thought I'd throw this one out there. And throw in a possible way forward - a way of opening up discussion. The lack of interest in discussing it (not one reply from a Tyrone poster for example) seems to indicate that I'm all wrong - there is nothing the matter with our game. How silly of me. Lets carry on! For all the indignation shown this week - no-one has commented or suggested improvements. Easier to throw muck I suppose! Ah well, if its not broke don't fix it!

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 24/09/2008 12:59:28    106518

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JayoC, I think the lack of respect you mention could be ascribed to a lot of other aspects of society these days and not just the football pitch.

I think Irish people this last decade or more have become accustomed to getting their own way too easy and spit the dummy, or do anything they can just to get their way.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9972 - 24/09/2008 14:31:50    106646

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I agree with all that was said. As a Limerick man i must relay an incident in a League match a number of years back when an average player on our county hurlers took a dive near the opponents end with a few minutes to go in an attempt to engineer a free. The roars the came from the crowd to get up you edjit to much worse were heard all round from both Limerick and Clare supporters. Limerick wanted no silly stuff and a score, Clare were insulted by the act and rightly so.
Today we have a major problem where football teams that go a few points up attempt to close out play and go defensive. The prime example this year was when Ricey hopped on Dooher to stop Mayo getting back the ball. (Denis Irwin missed an FA cup final for kicking a ball away)
The problem is i think that a point scored from play these days is worth only one point. It stiffles ambition. If your a point up teams try and protect it. Imagine if a point from play was worth two points. It would encourage players to chance their luck and might root out the protection of a lead.
Make a goal 4 points, Make a (professional foul) anywhere inside the 21 a free directly in front of the goals 2 points. Make normal fouls 1 point.

87LK100 (Limerick) - Posts: 65 - 24/09/2008 14:51:59    106677

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Great post, Jayo: very thought-provoking and sensible. However, we need to be careful that the rose-tinted glasses suggesting past times were always better is framed with some realism. You mentioned the great JBM in the post. Those of us who are old enough to remember the 70s will remember exactly why he gave up inter-county football: too much off the ball treatment from a particular corner-back. Football to-day is not perfect but it has many facets that are far more appealing than that played in past eras.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 24/09/2008 15:07:13    106692

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24/09/2008 12:59:28
JayoCluxton
County: Dublin
Posts: 1425

The lack of interest in discussing it (not one reply from a Tyrone poster for example)


It's the Wednesday after they have won the AI. They probably have other things on their mind. If the Dubs had just won it would you want to talk about ways to change the game or would you want to focus on the great victory your county had just experienced? Anyway, there are plenty of other counties represented that should be able to get a lively debate going on what's wrong with the game. And if all else fails, I'll argue with you!!

RMDrive (Donegal) - Posts: 2202 - 24/09/2008 15:10:04    106701

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I'll argue with you!!
RMDrive , 24/09/2008 at 15:10
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You most certainly will not!!!!!!!!!!

ps I was offering Tyrone supporters the chance to offer opinions ....

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 24/09/2008 15:23:06    106731

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"The problem is i think that a point scored from play these days is worth only one point. It stiffles ambition. If your a point up teams try and protect it. Imagine if a point from play was worth two points. It would encourage players to chance their luck and might root out the protection of a lead.
Make a goal 4 points, Make a (professional foul) anywhere inside the 21 a free directly in front of the goals 2 points. Make normal fouls 1 point."

That would promote fouling would it not?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1447 - 24/09/2008 15:24:33    106736

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People have very skewed opinions on some of these things.

For example: Spitting (not a GAA problem..yet:() This is an heinous act, yet some people get more disgusted by it than a leg-breaking tackle. One act momentarily hurts your pride, the othe would leave with you difficulty walking for the rest of your life.

Diving and feigning injury are something you dont want to see but I cant fathom how its worse than clothsline tackles or barging into players crouching to pick up the ball. These cowardly acts have the potential to leave a player in a wheelchair, yet people in the stand have steam coming out of their ears when somebody lies down with "cramp" in the last 5 minutes?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12484 - 24/09/2008 15:32:18    106748

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Patrique, who are these best players in Antrim who won't play for the county team?

fear an chamain (Antrim) - Posts: 12 - 24/09/2008 15:35:37    106754

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I watched the game live and haven't seen the reply yet and it seemed like a tight, intense game, and it was the first competitive final in three years (in hurling and football?). Bit niggly at times, but other than that, a top spectacle, with 1-14 scored from play in the second half. People are nostalgic for some type of football that never actually existed - i've seen enough All Ireland Gold to realise that. It's like my dad said - "they don't like it up 'em."

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 24/09/2008 15:39:11    106760

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