National Forum

Does The GAA Have Too Many MEANINGLESS Matches?

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One glaring difference between the GAA and other leagues are the amount of meaningless matches. In most leagues every match counts as it can be the difference between getting to your sports playoffs or even relegation.

The word "meaningless" may be a bit harsh and many people might get annoyed but let's face it the attendances got some of these matches is pathetic.

Examples of MEANINGLESS matches: the League, the Walsh Cup, etc. Even though the League can be a useful tool in preparing for the Championship it's still loaded with meaningless matches. Do the weaker teams get better because they just went through a League schedule?!? Not really. Kilkenny are still Kilkenny and Leitrim is still Leitrim, etc.

Combine the League and Championship in some kind of SMART way and then you'll see attendances improving due to the matches having some meaning.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 12:24:09    2279229

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what else would you fill the schedule with,meaningful matches?

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 26/05/2020 14:06:48    2279246

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Replying To perfect10:  "what else would you fill the schedule with,meaningful matches?"
Yeah come up with better competitive structures so that games count towards something.

A big problem is that the league is played outside peak season and means it becomes a development competition rather than an integral part of the season.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/05/2020 14:14:23    2279249

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Replying To perfect10:  "what else would you fill the schedule with,meaningful matches?"
Yes. That's what I mean by combining the League and Championship in some kind of SMART way in which the matches have meaning. Interest would grow, attendances would grow, etc. Everyone cares about the All Ireland but who really cares who wins the League every year?

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 14:17:26    2279250

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah come up with better competitive structures so that games count towards something.

A big problem is that the league is played outside peak season and means it becomes a development competition rather than an integral part of the season."
I won't even be nice enough to call it developmental as it rarely improves teams very much. Maybe you can say some teams use it better than others but that's about it. The average attendances at most of these meaningless matches tell you all you need to know.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 14:24:54    2279251

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Yes. That's what I mean by combining the League and Championship in some kind of SMART way in which the matches have meaning. Interest would grow, attendances would grow, etc. Everyone cares about the All Ireland but who really cares who wins the League every year?"
You dont have to combine them though. Play league all through year with all Ireland and provincial championships spaced out between league games with weekends for clubs as well. Like in soccer with clubs having champions league/fa cup/league cup all played inbetween premiership games

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 26/05/2020 14:28:46    2279252

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Yes. That's what I mean by combining the League and Championship in some kind of SMART way in which the matches have meaning. Interest would grow, attendances would grow, etc. Everyone cares about the All Ireland but who really cares who wins the League every year?"
You can be sure the League meant something to Leitrim last year, and this year too as they try to stay up and enjoy the tougher games in Div 3.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1032 - 26/05/2020 14:49:38    2279255

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I don't get the point about the league not being meaningful. With the 8 team divisions there is a fine line between being promoted and relegated.Nearly every match is important.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1057 - 26/05/2020 15:25:42    2279259

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You dont have to combine them though. Play league all through year with all Ireland and provincial championships spaced out between league games with weekends for clubs as well. Like in soccer with clubs having champions league/fa cup/league cup all played inbetween premiership games"
That sounds good to me. Make the matches count for something.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 15:38:54    2279261

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "You can be sure the League meant something to Leitrim last year, and this year too as they try to stay up and enjoy the tougher games in Div 3."
I'm glad for any improvement from Leitrim and others. I'd love to see them win Connacht again. My sister lives in Sligo and I'd love to see them do well too. Surely some improvement is warranted for the current system.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 15:41:01    2279262

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You dont have to combine them though. Play league all through year with all Ireland and provincial championships spaced out between league games with weekends for clubs as well. Like in soccer with clubs having champions league/fa cup/league cup all played inbetween premiership games"
Clubs will never go for that. Intercounty is our equivalent of international soccer games.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 26/05/2020 17:42:37    2279271

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Replying To gunman:  "I don't get the point about the league not being meaningful. With the 8 team divisions there is a fine line between being promoted and relegated.Nearly every match is important."
Is more meaningful in football than in hurling. In hurling the National League has basically lost most of its value as a competition because the 2 provincial championships are run on a round robin basis and doing well in that "league" is what matters. The NHL for the most part is like another pre season competition now for the top counties and it is only whatever counties "fall" into the final that will have a more than passing interest in winning it. Has meaning for the "weaker" counties at the relegation end though who can retain their provincial championship place by staying up.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 26/05/2020 18:55:01    2279276

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Clubs will never go for that. Intercounty is our equivalent of international soccer games."
You cant still find more than enough time for clubs though. Clubs can play league games without inter county players on specified weekends off of no inter county league games and counties knocked out of early rounds of provincial and all Ireland cups could play club championship rounds on those weekends.
It would be far better than the current system anyway

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 26/05/2020 19:12:09    2279278

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Replying To gunman:  "I don't get the point about the league not being meaningful. With the 8 team divisions there is a fine line between being promoted and relegated.Nearly every match is important."
Because it's a send rate competition. The Championship is everything. Just look at the attendances for obvious proof.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2125 - 26/05/2020 19:35:39    2279279

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Clubs will never go for that. Intercounty is our equivalent of international soccer games."
Well it would be better than the system that's in place now. Intercounty isnt near equivalent of international though with the way gaa is set up and organised

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 26/05/2020 19:46:57    2279280

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Could they not try a League Champuonship? Start in February, 7 league games each but stretched into the summer in between provincial championship and 4 provinces playoffs. Break in between league to run provincial championships but keep top and bottom teams apart in provinces until latter stages. Later in league have play offs between provincial winners for trophy, not the championship. When League finishes top two in Divisions 3 and 4 play off for two spots against top two in Division 2. Those two winners play top 2 in Division 1 in championship semi final for a place in an All Ireland final. A bit like the playoffs for the old league.

So the provincial and provincial playoff Cup become the secondary competition but we'd get traditional rival battles in the summer. The bigger teams might have more emphasis on a league championship, field weakened teams and give so-called weaker counties a shot at provincial glory or even a, secondary, national trophy. The League part of the League Championship should have few dead rubber games and there's a slight chance, very slight mind you, that a so-called weaker county could reach a semi final or even a final. It's more that I'm a dreamer rather than having too much time on my hands!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 26/05/2020 20:16:28    2279281

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Well it would be better than the system that's in place now. Intercounty isnt near equivalent of international though with the way gaa is set up and organised"
No, it wouldn't. The intercounty season should be shortened to give clubs more time.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 26/05/2020 20:44:58    2279286

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Could they not try a League Champuonship? Start in February, 7 league games each but stretched into the summer in between provincial championship and 4 provinces playoffs. Break in between league to run provincial championships but keep top and bottom teams apart in provinces until latter stages. Later in league have play offs between provincial winners for trophy, not the championship. When League finishes top two in Divisions 3 and 4 play off for two spots against top two in Division 2. Those two winners play top 2 in Division 1 in championship semi final for a place in an All Ireland final. A bit like the playoffs for the old league.

So the provincial and provincial playoff Cup become the secondary competition but we'd get traditional rival battles in the summer. The bigger teams might have more emphasis on a league championship, field weakened teams and give so-called weaker counties a shot at provincial glory or even a, secondary, national trophy. The League part of the League Championship should have few dead rubber games and there's a slight chance, very slight mind you, that a so-called weaker county could reach a semi final or even a final. It's more that I'm a dreamer rather than having too much time on my hands!"
The Fixtures Review proposed a similar format and it wasn't received well. Division 3 and 4 finalists play off against the 3rd and 4th placed Division 2 teams. The winners join the the top 2 teams Division 2 and the top 4 teams in Division 1 in the quarter-finals. I can see why a lot of teams oppose this. Why should the Division 4 champions get preference over Division 2 or 1 teams who are competing at a higher level?

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 26/05/2020 20:48:29    2279287

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Could they not try a League Champuonship? Start in February, 7 league games each but stretched into the summer in between provincial championship and 4 provinces playoffs. Break in between league to run provincial championships but keep top and bottom teams apart in provinces until latter stages. Later in league have play offs between provincial winners for trophy, not the championship. When League finishes top two in Divisions 3 and 4 play off for two spots against top two in Division 2. Those two winners play top 2 in Division 1 in championship semi final for a place in an All Ireland final. A bit like the playoffs for the old league.

So the provincial and provincial playoff Cup become the secondary competition but we'd get traditional rival battles in the summer. The bigger teams might have more emphasis on a league championship, field weakened teams and give so-called weaker counties a shot at provincial glory or even a, secondary, national trophy. The League part of the League Championship should have few dead rubber games and there's a slight chance, very slight mind you, that a so-called weaker county could reach a semi final or even a final. It's more that I'm a dreamer rather than having too much time on my hands!"
The league should be the championship but I really hate the quirk in the GAA where lower division teams are given spots in the playoffs for the top competition.

It makes it less of a big deal getting relegated, it's probably even an advantage to get relegated to get an easier passage to the knockout stages.

It can actually hurt the competitive integrity of the competition.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/05/2020 21:17:52    2279290

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "No, it wouldn't. The intercounty season should be shortened to give clubs more time."
Inter county season dorsnt have to be shortened to give clubs more time. Just make more weekends within county season for clubs to play and ensure with proper regulation county players are released and have to play club

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 27/05/2020 00:28:44    2279299

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