National Forum

Mccarty Cup 2020 Revised Format.

(Oldest Posts First)

Top 12 teams open draw. Losers group with the the winners of the losers group coming back in at the semi- final to make four teams. The winner of the losers group would have to be decided on scoring average to have them play the say number of games as the other semi finalists. Makes sure each team gets at least two games. The same could be done for the other cups, not forgetting their contribution to the sport.
However not being a pessimist no one will be playing any thing this year.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 901 - 22/03/2020 20:05:47    2274318

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Losers group be stretching things, straight knockout opendraw , have preliminary quarter finals to end up with 8 teams for quarter finals open draw no munster or leinster.
I did a draw just now.

Preliminary quarter finals
Cork v Tipperary
Kilkenny V Waterford

Quarter finals
Dublin v Wexford
Cork or Tipperary v Limerick
Clare v Laois
Galway v Kilkenny or Waterford

Semi Finals
Dublin or Wexford v Cork or Tipperary or Limerick
Clare or Laois v Galway or Kilkenny or Waterford

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 287 - 23/03/2020 12:47:32    2274366

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Why can't we still have provinces?

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 23/03/2020 14:04:38    2274378

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Losers group be stretching things, straight knockout opendraw , have preliminary quarter finals to end up with 8 teams for quarter finals open draw no munster or leinster.
I did a draw just now.

Preliminary quarter finals
Cork v Tipperary
Kilkenny V Waterford

Quarter finals
Dublin v Wexford
Cork or Tipperary v Limerick
Clare v Laois
Galway v Kilkenny or Waterford

Semi Finals
Dublin or Wexford v Cork or Tipperary or Limerick
Clare or Laois v Galway or Kilkenny or Waterford"
Yes probably a stretch. If it is important to have a provincial championship to some I would take the two top finishers in the open draw from each province and they play a Munster and Leinster final. If more than two teams advance to the same stage in the open draw use head to head if they have played each other. If not scoring differences.
I honestly don't see a bid program if any at all.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 901 - 23/03/2020 17:05:50    2274398

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Replying To Breezy:  "Why can't we still have provinces?"
Yes - 2 groups of 3 in both Provs (guest team in Muns).
Top 2 in each group to AI QFs (incl 2 Prov Finals).
Seeded 'Champs Apart' SFs and Final.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1815 - 25/03/2020 04:21:17    2274563

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I saw an article this morning where some of GAA admin are still not giving up hope of finishing the leagues this year, before the championship even starts. They have to write the leagues off, April and May are pretty much off the table at this stage. But before they revert to a straight knockout, maybe its worth looking at pushing back the date of the AI first. The hurling AI is currently scheduled for 16 August, could that not be pushed back to the end of September, just for this year?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1765 - 27/03/2020 17:13:13    2274842

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I saw an article this morning where some of GAA admin are still not giving up hope of finishing the leagues this year, before the championship even starts. They have to write the leagues off, April and May are pretty much off the table at this stage. But before they revert to a straight knockout, maybe its worth looking at pushing back the date of the AI first. The hurling AI is currently scheduled for 16 August, could that not be pushed back to the end of September, just for this year?"
The league finals should be on this weekend if right was right.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11421 - 27/03/2020 18:22:24    2274847

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4 Prov groups of 3 (1 guest team in Muns).
4 group winners to Prov Finals/AI QFs; Other 8 to KO QF Playoffs.
KO AI QFPs, QFs, SFs, Final.
Bye week before AI Final.
23 matches / 8 wks / max 6, min 3 games per team.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1815 - 28/03/2020 01:43:47    2274868

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If there is a championship I think it's pretty likely it'll be something along the lines of a preliminary round for 4 of the McDonagh teams. The remaining 13 teams go forward to a Provincial championship. Munster for Munster teams, Leinster for the rest. Munster champions v Leinster champions in the final.

That'd be a fine competition for a 1 off year.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3049 - 28/03/2020 18:00:21    2274912

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Yeah, I could see something like the being played if they need to play off in a very small window.
As its a one off, and if they have to play a straight knockout, it'd be interesting if they just did a straight 32 team (excluding teams like London, as I really don't know how travel is going to work even in summer) knockout competition, non-provincial.
Seed the top 16 teams, and give the bottom 16 teams home advantage. Then thats a 5 round championship: round of 32, round of 16, quarter-finals, semi-finals, final.

I know there would be large winning margins in the first rounds, but for one year, I think the positives would make up for that. People in those counties will see the top top teams in the flesh in their locality, and players from 3rd/4th tier counties will get to chance to see how they do against the very best. You could have situations like Sligo hosting Tipp in Markiewicz park, Armagh hosting Cork in the Athletic grounds, Mayo hosting Wexford etc For one year, give every hurler in the county the chance to face the top teams. And who's to say you wouldn't get one or two upsets?

I'd love if the powers that be would consider something like the above, or come up with some solution that works for counties in all tiers. I could still see them sticking with the current format, and just pushing the AI finals back a month though.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1765 - 28/03/2020 19:32:14    2274920

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I saw an article this morning where some of GAA admin are still not giving up hope of finishing the leagues this year, before the championship even starts. They have to write the leagues off, April and May are pretty much off the table at this stage. But before they revert to a straight knockout, maybe its worth looking at pushing back the date of the AI first. The hurling AI is currently scheduled for 16 August, could that not be pushed back to the end of September, just for this year?"
When the coast is clear,if ever, teams will need at least a month to prepare for the championship. Why not finish the League in that month and teams can use it as a means of preparing for the championship.

Oldertourman (Limerick) - Posts: 161 - 29/03/2020 16:30:28    2274970

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I saw an article this morning where some of GAA admin are still not giving up hope of finishing the leagues this year, before the championship even starts. They have to write the leagues off, April and May are pretty much off the table at this stage. But before they revert to a straight knockout, maybe its worth looking at pushing back the date of the AI first. The hurling AI is currently scheduled for 16 August, could that not be pushed back to the end of September, just for this year?"
An option might be to scrap next year's O'Byrne Cup/Munster League etc. and play the last 2 rounds of the football league, and remaining hurling games in the November/ December slots. The football finals can be played or not, depending on the mood, but it would sort out promotion/relegation and give a few weeks to plan the remaining fixtures.

A few managers will say "It's a disgrace not knowing what division we'll be in in next years league blah blah" or "too long of a break between games" but the pandemic has turned the world on it's head and a few moaning managers would be the least of our problems.

I hope the GAA come to a strong, fair conclusion on this and stick to it. Just like the many soccer fans wanting the PL season voided in order to deny Liverpool a title, a lot of counties (ourselves especially, as the only confirmed relegation or promotion across the 4 divisions...) will claim the conclusion that suits themselves is the "obvious, logical" one.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 29/03/2020 17:44:24    2274977

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I'd like all current competitions to be finished (NFL, NHL, AIC, EPL etc) how ever long it takes. I think it makes more sense to shorten next year's competitions, where needed, as they haven't started yet and this wouldn't have an impact in promotion etc.

So let's finish the NFL and play Sam and Tailteann as intended even if it goes into 2021.

If necessary, next year's NFL could be shortened by splitting the divs into two 4-team groups. After 3 games per team, 6 group winners go up, 8 play div in div finals and 6 last teams go down. AI Sam KO in 2021 instead - hopefully, back on track for 2022 with Free State centenary.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1815 - 29/03/2020 18:33:19    2274981

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Liam Griffin is correct there are two leagues now. When this is all over this needs to be rectified. One league with three divisions for the different cups. A relegation and promotion based on two or three year results not this yo-yo up and down. Start in March and finished in July to allow the club games get a proper season. The play offs designed so as to finish on time.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 901 - 29/03/2020 19:22:19    2274986

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I saw an article this morning where some of GAA admin are still not giving up hope of finishing the leagues this year, before the championship even starts. They have to write the leagues off, April and May are pretty much off the table at this stage. But before they revert to a straight knockout, maybe its worth looking at pushing back the date of the AI first. The hurling AI is currently scheduled for 16 August, could that not be pushed back to the end of September, just for this year?"
Why? Because there is the small matter of a lot of clubs who deserve fairness in this. You're correct though in that they'll be an after thought.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 2867 - 30/03/2020 23:49:15    2275065

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How about this? Simple because of time constraints.
Championships and promotion:
Leinster Championship: knockout
Munster Championship: knockout
All-Ireland Championship: Leinster champions vs Munster champions in the final

Joe McDonagh: knockout
Christy Ring: knockout
Nicky Rackard: knockout
Lory Meagher: knockout

Relegations:
From McCarthy to McDonagh: knockout between anyone who doesn't win a game in Leinster (if Kerry don't win McDonagh) or Munster (if they do, with the losers to play Kerry in a further playoff*)
From McDonagh to Ring: knockout involving anyone who doesn't win a game in McDonagh
From Ring to Rackard: knockout involving anyone who doesn't win a game in Ring
From Rackard to Meagher: knockout involving anyone who doesn't win a game in Rackard

*Although personally, I'd prefer to see Kerry just join the Leinster championship rather than be insulted by a further playoff, although I understand why it's there.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 568 - 02/04/2020 17:55:47    2275217

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I'd love to put those straight KO Provs and AI Final on a 3-yr cycle going forward. We could enjoy the riund ribins for two yrs and look forward to the less frequent old-style KO in the 3rd year.

I'd make them two 6-team Provs (guest in Muns).
After 4 Prov QFs and 4 SFs (combined), the 8 non-Prov Finalists could play two KO rds to determine two down.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1815 - 02/04/2020 19:35:21    2275226

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For 2020, I'd like the following -
Top 10 Open Draw Rd 1 - 5 winners to AI QFs, 5 losers to 6-team QF Playoffs.
Also in Rd 1 - a Rest of Ireland 'A team' plays their 'B team' (Probables v Possibles) - a combined Rest of Ireland selection completes the QF Playoff lineup.
AI KO QFs, SFs, Final (repeat pairings avoided, where possible).
This could be very exciting, given a curtailed timeframe.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1815 - 05/04/2020 02:21:50    2275353

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