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You do know Kerry played in the Munster championship until 2004, right? As I recall, they took themselves out of the Munster championship due to consistently heavy defeats they suffered every year, they weren't forced out by other Munster counties. Am I wrong? And how exactly are the other Munster counties actively blocking Kerrys re-admittance? If everyone else but them wants Kerry back in, how would 5 counties defeat all other 32+ boards in any motion? When it comes to hurling in general, everyone could be doing better. That said, the current promotion/relegation system is completely wrong. If Kerry win the Joe McDonagh, they should be promoted to the Munster championship directly. But, if anyone is really concerned about Kerry coming back into Munster hurling, there is good news. After winning 3 All-Ireland B titles on the trot, Kerry are back in the Munster U20 championship this year. Next step, get the minor hurlers back in the Munster championship. Players need to be playing and competing with the top teams at underage, before they can expect to bridge any gaps at Senior level. Alot of people are getting that back to front. And while I still think that increasing the Leinster championship to 6 teams is premature, at least Carlow, Westmeath, Laois etc have been playing in Leinster underage. Thats why I'm going to keep an open mind on this change, and hope it works out (even if league results so far are not a good sign). I just don't want us to go back to a championship where any team is satisfied with a moral victory. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/03/2020 18:38:53 2271760 Link 0 |
Also to those saying that Offaly will win the Macdonagh cup this year, it would be some achievement as they are not playing in it. UpOffaly (Offaly) - Posts: 68 - 02/03/2020 19:06:35 2271768 Link 0 |
But the fact that the Munster championship is essentially ring fenced is Kerry been abandoned. The fact Munster is protected and leinster isn't is flawed. There should be relegation play off between 5th in Munster and leinster, look I'm 99% certain the Munster team would win, last year it would have been Waterford v carlow but for the transparency of the competition it should take place.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 02/03/2020 21:14:37 2271796 Link 0 |
I dont think that's the debate here though. The point of the thread is that Leinster should or should not have 6 teams in it. Personally I think it is definitely premature. I'm not against the idea at all but doing it now is too soon. (That part is flawed yes). The attendances are poor in the Joe Mc as Carlovia said but promote them and put them as double headers with cship games. Alternate the Joe Mc finals each year as a curtain raiser to the Leinster and Munster finals . Pump effort and money into and you'll drive the support and interest levels up. There's plenty of things that can be done but I dont agree with the 6 team Leinster cship especially considering the mess the club situation is in. tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 02/03/2020 22:16:21 2271808 Link 0 |
There are solid arguments on both sides.Clearly the Mcdonagh is a very good and very competitive compensation and has the potential to be diluted.I think the league's should go down the road of an eight team division 1 and the same in division 2.Nevertheless Laois,Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim,Kerry and Offaly all counties who invest heavily in hurling deserve the opportunity to play in their provincial championships. jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1416 - 02/03/2020 22:34:21 2271812 Link 0 |
What would be the purpose if the relegation game? would Laois replace Waterford in Munster if Carlow won
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 02/03/2020 23:05:01 2271819 Link 0 |
Do you think it would do them any good though to potentially take 2/3/4 hammerings in Leinster? Do you feel they are all ready for it? Genuine question. It's important these teams improve and I think the Joe Mc Cup is the best option for some of these to improve. My club is intermediate in Tipp and I'd love to be playing senior but I don't for a second think we have right to be senior when we haven't shown we deserve it yet.... tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 03/03/2020 23:48:07 2272096 Link 0 |
Probably the same good that it did Waterford, Clare etc back in the day (which I don't remember but know plenty here do) when they were being bet out the gate by Tipp and Cork? And they would probably get big beatings from Wexford, Kilkenny and Galway too - but there will be 1 shock every year to justify this madness. There is no easy answer to extending hurlings reach but deciding that the Munster championship is only for 5 teams, and just dumping everybody else into Leinster, is not the answer. The sooner we either replace the league with the provincial championship, and then have an open draw style championship, the better. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1726 - 04/03/2020 10:51:23 2272138 Link 0 |
but its OK for the footballers in these counties to get hammered by kerry?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 04/03/2020 15:55:00 2272208 Link 1 |
Yes Clare got several hidings over the years as I well remember but they also could beat any of the top teams on their day. Clare would be more comparable to where Dublin are now. But Kerry have not competed at this level for years and it was they that removed themselves from the Munster championship as so many of you prefer to ignore. If Kerry win the JoeMc and want to be part of Munster then Im all for that.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 04/03/2020 17:30:17 2272228 Link 1 |
I think to be fair and I could be wrong but I know Waterford had at least one serious underage team back then so I think its a slightly different scenario. With all due respect to Kerry they would likely not get within 10-12 points of any of the teams so they wouldnt learn as much as they would in the Joe McDonagh cup, but I would be interested to hear a Kerry persons opinion on this.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 04/03/2020 18:53:22 2272237 Link 0 |
That's completely irrelevant to this thread for a number of reasons.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 04/03/2020 18:54:35 2272238 Link 0 |
There has been different league structures, competitions , Joe McDonagh cup etc. but little has changed with the power standings in hurling. (Probable true for football also) The standard at grass root levels in the weaker counties has to be brought up or it will stay that way despite what tinkering is done with formats. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2642 - 04/03/2020 19:36:05 2272244 Link 0 |
But Carlow weren't any more competitive last year in Leinster, would Kerry say be any less competitive? Also why is the point perfect10 made about the Munster football championship irrelevant, I think it is very relevant as you are being accused of double standards?
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1726 - 04/03/2020 19:36:42 2272245 Link 0 |
I agree with it on hurling. Much less so on football. I'd see changing the calendar to be important for improving hurling. I think getting better club competitions for teams from the developing counties is key alongside the juvenile work being done. The Celtic Challenge is a good initiative but I still think too much emphasis is placed on representative teams and not enough on the club game. It happens in football too. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 05/03/2020 00:07:26 2272280 Link 7 |
How can I be accused of double standards when I never said I agree with the Munster football cship? It's a different sport. The results would say Kerry would be less competitive in Munster at the present time, yes. The hope is that the Joe Mc cup helps to improve interest and standard tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 05/03/2020 18:35:14 2272394 Link 0 |
I agree 100% with this and having being saying it for a long time. A hurling task force should be set up to combine club cships in the weaker counties across all levels and age groups. There's only 2/3 clubs in certain counties. For example, if you combined the Leitrim and Longford club cships (different provinces so maybe better examples) then you'd start to give clubs more games and more competition. For the life of me I can't understand why we arent seeing loads of this but it needs to be driven from Croke Park first and county boards second. I see nothing wrong with combining 2/3/4 counties for club cships. It seems the logical approach for me. tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 05/03/2020 18:42:51 2272395 Link 0 |
Spot on
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11477 - 05/03/2020 22:13:37 2272418 Link 0 |
Would they be any less competitive than Waterford are in football, or were for very many years in hurling? Re weaker counties, there is no point really bothering investing in hurling though is there, Brian Carroll has always said (rightly) that the big counties have pulled the ladder up behind them and don't care beyond their own bubble. What reward is it for years of work in Carlow or Laois to be just relegated in Leinster, or Kerry not even allowed to compete? Why would they bother? perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 06/03/2020 10:53:27 2272459 Link 1 |
I think the county championships in the weaker counties should be on a knock out basis and then allow all their club teams play in the provincial championship seeded from each other. As we see there is nothing better than that parish pride to bring out the best in players. Easy do in Munster as only Kerry. In the others take a county or two on a rotating basis. Maybe no county team for them during that time. The question would be how to fit. Do away with some of the meaningless competition, provincial inter counties development squads and now the league is being used the same. Munster need to give up on their sacred cow provincial championship that I also loved, in the interest of the sport. Development squads should be the clubs as used to be and a lot cheaper. Probably all flawed but firm believe that grass roots is the way to improve and not changing formats like underwear. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2642 - 06/03/2020 14:17:51 2272504 Link 0 |