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Major mistake for a number of reasons.
1. You have two teams who now will target one game a year.
2. More games - affects clubs further but no one cares about that.
3. Dilutes the competitiveness of arguably the most competitive of all GAA competitions ( the Joe mcDonagh)
4. As it stands there is a seriously competitive leinster cship. It sounds derogatory but that's now gone.
I'm baffled by the support for this. Laois most definitely have improved because of the competitiveness of the Joe Mc cup and the feel good factor they got from winning it.
They could arguably spend the next 5 years in the leinster cship and take multiple hammerings and be back to square one in terms of being in the doldrums. Absolutely stupid decision.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 29/02/2020 21:42:53
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Have to disagree with you.
At the moment there are a lot of leinster teams in tier 2 that need to be playing the higher standard.
Look at Westmeath who beat Kilkenny u21 but don't get to play leinster championship or Carlow who get one year of it and then sent back down.
Offaly will be trying to get back up as well in future years.
With the 5 team system it was almost guaranteed that counties would go up and down.
Now there's at least 2 of those counties getting better matches. The Mcdonagh will still be competitive for the others.
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 29/02/2020 22:04:29
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Replying To tiobraid: "Major mistake for a number of reasons.
1. You have two teams who now will target one game a year.
2. More games - affects clubs further but no one cares about that.
3. Dilutes the competitiveness of arguably the most competitive of all GAA competitions ( the Joe mcDonagh)
4. As it stands there is a seriously competitive leinster cship. It sounds derogatory but that's now gone.
I'm baffled by the support for this. Laois most definitely have improved because of the competitiveness of the Joe Mc cup and the feel good factor they got from winning it.
They could arguably spend the next 5 years in the leinster cship and take multiple hammerings and be back to square one in terms of being in the doldrums. Absolutely stupid decision." 100% agree with you. Laois were competitve last year but are showing in the league that they are still a bit behind the top counties. The current league system, if they are good enough, gives Laois, Carlow, Westmeath the chance to play the bigger sides and show that results like Laois v Dublin is not a blip/fluke. Westmeath nearly beat Cork in miserable conditions a few weeks ago. Nearly but didn't. Lost by 20+ points when they played last summer. Current league system is good. Leinster championship should be max 5. Laois deserve to be in it based on last summer but the jury is very much out on whether they can remain competitive.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 29/02/2020 23:17:13
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Replying To carlovia: "Have to disagree with you.
At the moment there are a lot of leinster teams in tier 2 that need to be playing the higher standard.
Look at Westmeath who beat Kilkenny u21 but don't get to play leinster championship or Carlow who get one year of it and then sent back down.
Offaly will be trying to get back up as well in future years.
With the 5 team system it was almost guaranteed that counties would go up and down.
Now there's at least 2 of those counties getting better matches. The Mcdonagh will still be competitive for the others." I can see people's reasons for wanting this - don't get me wrong but the simple fact of the matter is all counties and players want to play at the top level but that doesn't mean they should. The league has proven they aren't ready yet. You referenced one underage result and that's great but it's one result. Personally I'd pump revenue and funding into the Joe mcdonagh cup and aim to have two seriously competitive cships. 10 teams for a sport that isn't strong in every county is a good number in my opinion with maybe 8 in the next tier.
I seen in tipp when they started promoting extra teams from intermediate a number of years ago what happened.
You now have two cships where there quality and excitement has dropped dramatically. There should be no shame in being an "intermediate" team.
I've seen the likes of kerry and laois in particular seriously benefit from being in the lower division and am excited to see the leinster cship this year. 2021 youll see a fair few games with big bearings, I can guarantee you that and it'll drive counties back rather than forward. You only learn from playing the best if you're competitive.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 29/02/2020 23:27:29
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Crazy decision. It will dilute the Joe McDonagh and the Leinster Round Robin. Arguably the two best hurling competitions last year.
The Competitiveness of the JMD is going to be fierce again this year. Impossible to pick from Kerry, Westmeath, Carlow, Offaly and possibly Antrim to win. Apart from Laois any of these teams will get hockied in the LSH C'ship. Massive loss to the teams left in it. The best Tier 2 county being replaced with a tier 3 county. Massive gulf in quality - mainly because their Co Boards treat their hurlers as a tier 3 teams. Offaly and Antrim aside, the County Boards of the remaining JMD teams treat their hurling teams as the very very poor relation. So why don't Croke Park promote development from within their own county first. I'm a Limerick hurling man and I wouldn't suggest for one second that Limerick Footballers should be automatically in the Super Eights. And can I be so bold as to suggest the distance between Limerick and 50% of the supper 8 teams is smaller than the gap between the best of the JMD teams and say Galway Hurlers (who came 4th in Leinster in 2019)
The GAA should be more interested in getting more TV time for the JMD. Apparently, there are absolutely fantastic games in the JMD but we don't get to see them. What about a TG 4 mid week programme. They cannot currently show them as RTÉ has the rights.
The Tier 2 counties have come on leaps and bounds in the last 3-4 years. This certainly isn't from playing the Tier 1 counties. Would love to see more of them but not being beaten by a Tier 1 by 30-40 points.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 01/03/2020 02:05:54
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Replying To carlovia: "Have to disagree with you.
At the moment there are a lot of leinster teams in tier 2 that need to be playing the higher standard.
Look at Westmeath who beat Kilkenny u21 but don't get to play leinster championship or Carlow who get one year of it and then sent back down.
Offaly will be trying to get back up as well in future years.
With the 5 team system it was almost guaranteed that counties would go up and down.
Now there's at least 2 of those counties getting better matches. The Mcdonagh will still be competitive for the others." Ridiculous decision ...another team up to take a hiding so the bigger teams can build on their score difference.... Galway lost out last year cos they didn't beat Carlow by as much as the others...
Rubbish talk about needing 2 years to get competitive in leinster
Joe McDonagh destroyed as two weak christy ring teams come up... remember how Meath hammered everyone last year and now 2 of them will come up...
Once again lip service to clubs
Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 01/03/2020 08:40:41
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Crazy decision. It will dilute the Joe McDonagh and the Leinster Round Robin. Arguably the two best hurling competitions last year.
The Competitiveness of the JMD is going to be fierce again this year. Impossible to pick from Kerry, Westmeath, Carlow, Offaly and possibly Antrim to win. Apart from Laois any of these teams will get hockied in the LSH C'ship. Massive loss to the teams left in it. The best Tier 2 county being replaced with a tier 3 county. Massive gulf in quality - mainly because their Co Boards treat their hurlers as a tier 3 teams. Offaly and Antrim aside, the County Boards of the remaining JMD teams treat their hurling teams as the very very poor relation. So why don't Croke Park promote development from within their own county first. I'm a Limerick hurling man and I wouldn't suggest for one second that Limerick Footballers should be automatically in the Super Eights. And can I be so bold as to suggest the distance between Limerick and 50% of the supper 8 teams is smaller than the gap between the best of the JMD teams and say Galway Hurlers (who came 4th in Leinster in 2019)
The GAA should be more interested in getting more TV time for the JMD. Apparently, there are absolutely fantastic games in the JMD but we don't get to see them. What about a TG 4 mid week programme. They cannot currently show them as RTÉ has the rights.
The Tier 2 counties have come on leaps and bounds in the last 3-4 years. This certainly isn't from playing the Tier 1 counties. Would love to see more of them but not being beaten by a Tier 1 by 30-40 points." Offaly haven't a hope of winning the JMcD
Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 01/03/2020 10:52:00
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Crazy decision. It will dilute the Joe McDonagh and the Leinster Round Robin. Arguably the two best hurling competitions last year.
The Competitiveness of the JMD is going to be fierce again this year. Impossible to pick from Kerry, Westmeath, Carlow, Offaly and possibly Antrim to win. Apart from Laois any of these teams will get hockied in the LSH C'ship. Massive loss to the teams left in it. The best Tier 2 county being replaced with a tier 3 county. Massive gulf in quality - mainly because their Co Boards treat their hurlers as a tier 3 teams. Offaly and Antrim aside, the County Boards of the remaining JMD teams treat their hurling teams as the very very poor relation. So why don't Croke Park promote development from within their own county first. I'm a Limerick hurling man and I wouldn't suggest for one second that Limerick Footballers should be automatically in the Super Eights. And can I be so bold as to suggest the distance between Limerick and 50% of the supper 8 teams is smaller than the gap between the best of the JMD teams and say Galway Hurlers (who came 4th in Leinster in 2019)
The GAA should be more interested in getting more TV time for the JMD. Apparently, there are absolutely fantastic games in the JMD but we don't get to see them. What about a TG 4 mid week programme. They cannot currently show them as RTÉ has the rights.
The Tier 2 counties have come on leaps and bounds in the last 3-4 years. This certainly isn't from playing the Tier 1 counties. Would love to see more of them but not being beaten by a Tier 1 by 30-40 points." You say the gap between the macdonagh cup and the Leinster championship is huge but how then did Laois beat Dublin last year.
Are people really saying that only 1 team from Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow , Offaly and Kerry get to play championship every year ?
Also to those saying that Offaly will win the Macdonagh cup this year, it would be some achievement as they are not playing in it.
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 01/03/2020 11:09:16
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I agree, this is madness. But sure maybe somebody has to do something for Kerry and the like.
There is no easy answer to hurlings expansion but leaving counties to rot but pulling up the ladder behind them, as the Munster counties have done to Kerry, is simply not right.
I also don't see why Wexford/KK/etc have to play an extra game to get to the same stage of the championship.
There should be 6 teams in each province, end of story.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 01/03/2020 11:59:32
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Crazy decision. It will dilute the Joe McDonagh and the Leinster Round Robin. Arguably the two best hurling competitions last year.
The Competitiveness of the JMD is going to be fierce again this year. Impossible to pick from Kerry, Westmeath, Carlow, Offaly and possibly Antrim to win. Apart from Laois any of these teams will get hockied in the LSH C'ship. Massive loss to the teams left in it. The best Tier 2 county being replaced with a tier 3 county. Massive gulf in quality - mainly because their Co Boards treat their hurlers as a tier 3 teams. Offaly and Antrim aside, the County Boards of the remaining JMD teams treat their hurling teams as the very very poor relation. So why don't Croke Park promote development from within their own county first. I'm a Limerick hurling man and I wouldn't suggest for one second that Limerick Footballers should be automatically in the Super Eights. And can I be so bold as to suggest the distance between Limerick and 50% of the supper 8 teams is smaller than the gap between the best of the JMD teams and say Galway Hurlers (who came 4th in Leinster in 2019)
The GAA should be more interested in getting more TV time for the JMD. Apparently, there are absolutely fantastic games in the JMD but we don't get to see them. What about a TG 4 mid week programme. They cannot currently show them as RTÉ has the rights.
The Tier 2 counties have come on leaps and bounds in the last 3-4 years. This certainly isn't from playing the Tier 1 counties. Would love to see more of them but not being beaten by a Tier 1 by 30-40 points." Offaly in the Joe McDonagh? You haven't a bulls.
dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 01/03/2020 12:34:56
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We're going to run out of teams to put in the Lory Meagher soon, there's only 4 in it as is and we're promoting another 2. They've shunted so many teams upwards it's really devaluing the lower competitions.
For example in 2009 the 20th ranked team in Ireland would be relegated from the Christy Ring and play the Nicky Rackard the following year. Now in 2021 the 20th ranked team will be playing the Christy Ring final!
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 01/03/2020 17:54:28
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I agree, this is madness. But sure maybe somebody has to do something for Kerry and the like.
There is no easy answer to hurlings expansion but leaving counties to rot but pulling up the ladder behind them, as the Munster counties have done to Kerry, is simply not right.
I also don't see why Wexford/KK/etc have to play an extra game to get to the same stage of the championship.
There should be 6 teams in each province, end of story." With all due respect to Kerry what are they going to get from being in the Munster cship. They have improved dramatically but they aren't ready yet. I think any Kerry hurling person will agree with that. If they win the Joe Mc cup then they should get their chance for sure.
Laois, Westmeath, carlow, Kerry have all benefited massively from competitive games every week.
The new system will see half of the teams take big beating and the other half dish out big beatings from the teams from the Christy ring. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see any other outcome.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/03/2020 18:12:46
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Replying To carlovia: "You say the gap between the macdonagh cup and the Leinster championship is huge but how then did Laois beat Dublin last year.
Are people really saying that only 1 team from Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow , Offaly and Kerry get to play championship every year ?
Also to those saying that Offaly will win the Macdonagh cup this year, it would be some achievement as they are not playing in it." No one is saying only one of those teams can at all. If they're good enough 2 can play in it.
The Joe Mc cup gives teams a great chance of winning silverware. There are 5 cups to be won by all these teams every year and the big teams will win four of them.
Laois has homecomings and school visits last year after the Joe Mc win and it gave a massive lift to hurling in Laois. The GAA finally nailed the hurling cship over the last couple of years. Tinkering with it again has ruined the competitiveness of both the leinster and Joe Mc cup.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/03/2020 18:22:19
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Replying To tiobraid: "No one is saying only one of those teams can at all. If they're good enough 2 can play in it.
The Joe Mc cup gives teams a great chance of winning silverware. There are 5 cups to be won by all these teams every year and the big teams will win four of them.
Laois has homecomings and school visits last year after the Joe Mc win and it gave a massive lift to hurling in Laois. The GAA finally nailed the hurling cship over the last couple of years. Tinkering with it again has ruined the competitiveness of both the leinster and Joe Mc cup." And even more than that, the top 2 teams in the McDonagh group are then one game away from an AI quarter-final. Alot of the arguments for increasing the teams in Leinster is so that they can play in the AI championship, and play top teams. But they actually already have that in the Joe McDonagh. The Joe McDonagh cup IS part of the AI series.
Laois played in the Joe McDonagh cup last year, but got further in the championship than Clare , Galway, Waterford or Dublin. Carlow made it to the same stage as the 3rd places team in Leinster, just via a different route, and had a longer summer than Clare , Galway, or Waterford .
I really don't think the pro's of being in he McDonagh cup were fully considered here.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 01/03/2020 18:52:27
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If it ain't broke don't fix it... Both Leinster and jmd have been phenomenal, just give us some jmd televised games...
murrax (Wexford) - Posts: 90 - 02/03/2020 00:02:05
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I'm actually surprised with the overall negative sentiment here - maybe a fair compromise could be this - have the JMD group top 3 join Lein group's 5th in the JMD Cup KO SFs - Champ takes Lein's 5th slot in the following year.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2583 - 02/03/2020 00:24:28
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Replying To murrax: "If it ain't broke don't fix it... Both Leinster and jmd have been phenomenal, just give us some jmd televised games..." They have been competitive but the attendances at the McDonagh cup
matches are very poor.
If players dont get a chance to play at the higher level they will walk away
from it.
Its only 1 extra team in Leinster and the JMD wont be diluted. Lets try it
for a few years and see how it works.
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 02/03/2020 09:35:34
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Don't understand all the negative comments, it was common sense as far as I'm concerned, I'd have no issue Kerry playing in leinster as it seems they've been abandoned by the other 5 Munster counties, self interests can be a terrible thing.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 02/03/2020 13:34:58
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Replying To wexico15: "Don't understand all the negative comments, it was common sense as far as I'm concerned, I'd have no issue Kerry playing in leinster as it seems they've been abandoned by the other 5 Munster counties, self interests can be a terrible thing." Ya cause kerry have been so supportive of munster football counties.
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 775 - 02/03/2020 13:56:11
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Replying To cityman73: "Ya cause kerry have been so supportive of munster football counties." The Munster football wasn't ring fenced to protect the teams in it, the fact that Kerry will be more than likely not get into liam McCarthy competition if they win the joe mcdonagh is completely wrong
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 02/03/2020 14:16:10
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