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Timekeeping

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4 minutes added today in Navan. At least 2 minutes of that taken up with stoppages. Ref blew it up exactly on 4 minutes with Meath losing by a point. Obviously unlike in Croke Park last night.

You can change the rules all you like, the biggest problem with the game is referees. They are generally an utter disgrace.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1316 - 09/02/2020 21:23:47    2266588

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Replying To Crinigan:  "4 minutes added today in Navan. At least 2 minutes of that taken up with stoppages. Ref blew it up exactly on 4 minutes with Meath losing by a point. Obviously unlike in Croke Park last night.

You can change the rules all you like, the biggest problem with the game is referees. They are generally an utter disgrace."
Getting turned over in the 69th minute inside your own 45 is unforgivable at this level, and got punished for it.
There's no room for that carry-on in Div 1, and it's the reason why Meath will be relegated.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 09/02/2020 21:48:01    2266599

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Replying To Crinigan:  "4 minutes added today in Navan. At least 2 minutes of that taken up with stoppages. Ref blew it up exactly on 4 minutes with Meath losing by a point. Obviously unlike in Croke Park last night.

You can change the rules all you like, the biggest problem with the game is referees. They are generally an utter disgrace."
If you have a cynical game with players slowing down the clock it is right they are punished. In Croke Park on 77 mins Monaghan Keeper strolled up to take free, when he kicked it 1.53 secs had passed is that OK? Rule now states a free/kick out must be taken within 15 secs it is right the clock is stopped. The issue with Meath game you would have to look at in added time was there subs, frees or delayed kickouts if there was then Meath have a case. In Dublin game in added time there was cards, injuries, ridiculous delays to kick outs and as I pointed out a deliberate attempt at time wasting by keeper. In fairness Banty had no complaints about Meath game but Meath manager did, maybe if he got his team to concentrate on game he wouldn't be blaming his liss on the Ref or Dublin.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 09/02/2020 22:13:31    2266612

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Replying To TheImmortal:  "Just the 9 minutes of injury time last night (6 indicated)"
Main reason for the additional 3 minutes on top of the 6 was because the referee was running aound giving pointless yellow cards to players. Complete waste of time. If they going to be black cards then fair enough but they weren't.

He was actually right to add on the additonal time but the reason behind the additonal time being there in the first place was stupid.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 754 - 09/02/2020 22:40:11    2266625

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Replying To Crinigan:  "4 minutes added today in Navan. At least 2 minutes of that taken up with stoppages. Ref blew it up exactly on 4 minutes with Meath losing by a point. Obviously unlike in Croke Park last night.

You can change the rules all you like, the biggest problem with the game is referees. They are generally an utter disgrace."
The biggest problem with the game is players constantly trying to con refs and making their job almost impossible. People will happily slate a ref for incorrectly for penalising a player over what appears to be a foul, but just accept the fact that the 'fouled' player feigned or exaggerated any contact.
In a fast moving game with so many instances of players trying to pull a fast one, it's a given that refs will make a number of mistakes. In fact I'd expect more mistakes than we see, given the level of messing that goes on.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 10/02/2020 00:20:56    2266654

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Stop the clock for any break in play in the last 10 mins. Game ends on 70 minutes regardless of whether the ball is in play or not and regardless of where the ball is or who has the ball. Think ladies football is done similar to this?

aidan64 (Kerry) - Posts: 665 - 10/02/2020 08:24:54    2266670

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "The biggest problem with the game is players constantly trying to con refs and making their job almost impossible. People will happily slate a ref for incorrectly for penalising a player over what appears to be a foul, but just accept the fact that the 'fouled' player feigned or exaggerated any contact.
In a fast moving game with so many instances of players trying to pull a fast one, it's a given that refs will make a number of mistakes. In fact I'd expect more mistakes than we see, given the level of messing that goes on."
Nail on the head; it's getting worse by the game, has to be addressed somehow

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 10/02/2020 10:17:49    2266710

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Think the ref did play a lot of extra time, maybe should not have been 9 minutes, but it should have been close to it. Most of the first bit of the original 6 minutes were taken up with giving out cards etc. Now we can look at how long it took the ref to sort all that out (which is an issue with the ref), but the game really restarted at just before 73 mins on the clock, so the extra 6 is fine for me. It just makes the ref look so bad, even though he probably didn't do much wrong. Time to take the timekeeping away from them in some way maybe.

I'd far rather this than not play enough. How often have we seen 4 or whatever minutes allowed for. Ages taken over cards, taking frees, kickouts and all that. You'd be there in the stand thinking, well sure most of that 4 minutes was taken faffing around, he'll definitely add on another 2 at least, but bang, there you go whistle blown on the second of the 4 minutes. That's not right. You have to all remember that refs are adjudicated on. They have to answer to someone judging their performance in the stand. The refs committee is maybe tasking them with allowing the right time if there are stoppages in injury time and seems to me on matches this year, that is what seems to be happening.

Who'd want to be a ref, huh?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 10/02/2020 10:38:58    2266720

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Replying To arock:  "If you have a cynical game with players slowing down the clock it is right they are punished. In Croke Park on 77 mins Monaghan Keeper strolled up to take free, when he kicked it 1.53 secs had passed is that OK? Rule now states a free/kick out must be taken within 15 secs it is right the clock is stopped. The issue with Meath game you would have to look at in added time was there subs, frees or delayed kickouts if there was then Meath have a case. In Dublin game in added time there was cards, injuries, ridiculous delays to kick outs and as I pointed out a deliberate attempt at time wasting by keeper. In fairness Banty had no complaints about Meath game but Meath manager did, maybe if he got his team to concentrate on game he wouldn't be blaming his liss on the Ref or Dublin."
Is the 15 second rule not in relation to the time required following a mark, could you show me where you got that in relation to a 45, I wasn't aware that came in
As far as I'm concerned Monaghan ran down the clock legitimately for the last 2 minutes before keeper kicked the 45. He was under no obligation to rush any more than he did during the rest of the game, and should not have been punished for doing so. There was not 3 minutes further time to be added IMO

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 10/02/2020 11:50:06    2266754

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Replying To arock:  "If you have a cynical game with players slowing down the clock it is right they are punished. In Croke Park on 77 mins Monaghan Keeper strolled up to take free, when he kicked it 1.53 secs had passed is that OK? Rule now states a free/kick out must be taken within 15 secs it is right the clock is stopped. The issue with Meath game you would have to look at in added time was there subs, frees or delayed kickouts if there was then Meath have a case. In Dublin game in added time there was cards, injuries, ridiculous delays to kick outs and as I pointed out a deliberate attempt at time wasting by keeper. In fairness Banty had no complaints about Meath game but Meath manager did, maybe if he got his team to concentrate on game he wouldn't be blaming his liss on the Ref or Dublin."
Every team wastes time.

The only thing that should be applied is a consistent rule.

I have no other complaints. Players should never rely on a ref to get their win.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 10/02/2020 11:52:11    2266755

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Everything comes full circle doesnt it, i remember a furor not that long ago about refs not playing enough time as Cluxton was allegedly taking to long over kick outs, more time was added, now to much time is playing played.

I suppose its a case of be careful what you wish for.

All that said Mongahan deserved to win, we absolutely snuck a draw undeserved, they did more then enough to win that game, we can consider ourselves very lucky.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/02/2020 15:34:17    2266828

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Everything comes full circle doesnt it, i remember a furor not that long ago about refs not playing enough time as Cluxton was allegedly taking to long over kick outs, more time was added, now to much time is playing played.

I suppose its a case of be careful what you wish for.

All that said Mongahan deserved to win, we absolutely snuck a draw undeserved, they did more then enough to win that game, we can consider ourselves very lucky."
The introduction of the sin bin hasn't helped the ref's cause. Lads can lie down for 4 or 5 mins now to burn off the sin bin clock. Smacks like another poorly thought out rule change. The case is growing for a fourth officially who manages roll on roll off subs, no need to stop play for them, and times the sin bins where sin bin clock stops if there's an injury. The extra time was well justified on Sat but as I've said before, leaving time to a ref's discretion is very dangerous and will always lead to controversy.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 10/02/2020 15:56:12    2266838

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Replying To Joxer:  "The introduction of the sin bin hasn't helped the ref's cause. Lads can lie down for 4 or 5 mins now to burn off the sin bin clock. Smacks like another poorly thought out rule change. The case is growing for a fourth officially who manages roll on roll off subs, no need to stop play for them, and times the sin bins where sin bin clock stops if there's an injury. The extra time was well justified on Sat but as I've said before, leaving time to a ref's discretion is very dangerous and will always lead to controversy."
I thought the extra time was excessive myself Jox, but ill take it. I know lads have broken it down and its probably right, but still, i was surprised we got the last phase of play to score.

Seems simple to me, Rugby do it brilliantly at the elite level, on time management, i was watching the lads on Saturday before our game and how Rugby keeps the clock and manages breaks in play is brilliant. I also like the idea of a TMO to help the ref in GAA, probably not feasible given the infrastructure around the country but would be perfect, but most of all it is possible.

That said technology isnt infallible in my opinion, we see it Rugby sometimes, VAR is soccer hasnt been great and i dont care what Hawkeye said, that Cormac Costello point in the final this year was over! ;D

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/02/2020 18:36:56    2266867

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Replying To Joxer:  "The introduction of the sin bin hasn't helped the ref's cause. Lads can lie down for 4 or 5 mins now to burn off the sin bin clock. Smacks like another poorly thought out rule change. The case is growing for a fourth officially who manages roll on roll off subs, no need to stop play for them, and times the sin bins where sin bin clock stops if there's an injury. The extra time was well justified on Sat but as I've said before, leaving time to a ref's discretion is very dangerous and will always lead to controversy."
Should ref be micced up so you can hear what they say? Would help as well as timekeeping being assisted by an official on the sidelines.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3499 - 10/02/2020 18:39:08    2266868

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "The biggest problem with the game is players constantly trying to con refs and making their job almost impossible. People will happily slate a ref for incorrectly for penalising a player over what appears to be a foul, but just accept the fact that the 'fouled' player feigned or exaggerated any contact.
In a fast moving game with so many instances of players trying to pull a fast one, it's a given that refs will make a number of mistakes. In fact I'd expect more mistakes than we see, given the level of messing that goes on."
Would agree with all you are saying for sure. However when it comes to time there is no need for anyone to be conned. Guess what the !!! CLOCK !!! tick tock. If you want to take it further when the main clock stops a restart clock next to it for restart begins. Goaltenders, free takers etc. will quit their sh-t and learn quickly if the free goes the other way when restart time expires. Injuries are different but when a set time expires they have to be taken off the pitch and allow back on at the refs discretion. This will sort out feigners. An other poster noted on here correctly about the GAA messing with rules and actually making things worse for the lack of better thought. It is unbelievable that a simple time keeping update in 2020 can not be corrected.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 10/02/2020 19:44:42    2266876

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Should ref be micced up so you can hear what they say? Would help as well as timekeeping being assisted by an official on the sidelines."
No harm. I just think refs have way too much on their plate. All of the rules aside, their expected to deal with stoppages for injuries, blood subs on and off, normal subs, black cards off and on, track advance marks, deal with God knows what going on off the ball, count number of hops when soloing, count number of steps when soloing, manage extra time in both halves, make split second decisions on black and red cards with no TMO and then deal with criticism from TV analysts for making a difficult correct call because he "ruined" the game. Hats off to refs.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 10/02/2020 19:47:39    2266877

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Everything comes full circle doesnt it, i remember a furor not that long ago about refs not playing enough time as Cluxton was allegedly taking to long over kick outs, more time was added, now to much time is playing played.

I suppose its a case of be careful what you wish for.

All that said Mongahan deserved to win, we absolutely snuck a draw undeserved, they did more then enough to win that game, we can consider ourselves very lucky."
Some speculate Cluxton is still running up the field to take that 2011 all Ireland free kick

futtbull (Roscommon) - Posts: 13 - 11/02/2020 08:14:34    2266971

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Replying To Joxer:  "No harm. I just think refs have way too much on their plate. All of the rules aside, their expected to deal with stoppages for injuries, blood subs on and off, normal subs, black cards off and on, track advance marks, deal with God knows what going on off the ball, count number of hops when soloing, count number of steps when soloing, manage extra time in both halves, make split second decisions on black and red cards with no TMO and then deal with criticism from TV analysts for making a difficult correct call because he "ruined" the game. Hats off to refs."
I do wonder though are there some of the rules that could be changed to make life easier for the ref. For example, its good enough to use the number of the player to give him a "tick" but not for a yellow, black or red. Change the rules such that if teams line out with the same number on a jersey they forfeit the game.
Of course get rid of the advance mark:)
Make all black cards yellow cards and a 10min sin bin.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 11/02/2020 10:34:43    2266998

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Replying To Canuck:  "Would agree with all you are saying for sure. However when it comes to time there is no need for anyone to be conned. Guess what the !!! CLOCK !!! tick tock. If you want to take it further when the main clock stops a restart clock next to it for restart begins. Goaltenders, free takers etc. will quit their sh-t and learn quickly if the free goes the other way when restart time expires. Injuries are different but when a set time expires they have to be taken off the pitch and allow back on at the refs discretion. This will sort out feigners. An other poster noted on here correctly about the GAA messing with rules and actually making things worse for the lack of better thought. It is unbelievable that a simple time keeping update in 2020 can not be corrected."
Simple solution to a simple problem. Get this problem off the table and then start working on the advanced mark.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 11/02/2020 11:54:16    2267020

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I thought the extra time was excessive myself Jox, but ill take it. I know lads have broken it down and its probably right, but still, i was surprised we got the last phase of play to score.

Seems simple to me, Rugby do it brilliantly at the elite level, on time management, i was watching the lads on Saturday before our game and how Rugby keeps the clock and manages breaks in play is brilliant. I also like the idea of a TMO to help the ref in GAA, probably not feasible given the infrastructure around the country but would be perfect, but most of all it is possible.

That said technology isnt infallible in my opinion, we see it Rugby sometimes, VAR is soccer hasnt been great and i dont care what Hawkeye said, that Cormac Costello point in the final this year was over! ;D"
Have a look on YouTube for the Ruan Pienaar conversion and see is that the type of stuff you want in gaelic games when you pay your money at the gate. There is far less cynical play in ladies football compared to the men's game but even there the clock is now being taken advantage of. Soccer is the most popular game across the world and they manage fine without a clock, and for the technology they have introduced there are now many supporters who would be happy to see it gone again.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 11/02/2020 12:30:53    2267029

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