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I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 27/09/2019 19:53:12
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Replying To gatha: "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?" Honestly this is just such complete rubbish.
Did you see Jack McCaffrey, Sean O'Shea, David Moran or Brian Howard in the first game?
Then there was Murchan, Fenton and Mannion in the replay.
Players take on their man all the time.
These players are pure class.
Murchan is a corner back who roasted a midfielder and slotted the ball into bottom corner with the outside of his foot after a 50 yard run.
Paddy Durcan, Con O'Callaghan, Peter Harte, Cathal McShane, Michael Murphy, Paddy McBrearty, Conor McManus, Eoin McHugh.
I actually pity people who can't appreciate these guys. I don't know what game you're watching if you can't see the skills on show.
They're proper ballers these lads and they're testing each other more than players ever did back in the day.
The decision making is at a level that wasn't even a consideration 20 years ago.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 27/09/2019 22:05:04
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Replying To gatha: "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?" Well gatha games evolve and change. Hurling is a far different game than it was 40 years ago. You don't see guys ground hurling anymore. It's pretty much completely gone from the game where as back then it was one of the major skills involved. Rugby , soccer and Gaelic football are very different to back then also. If you look back at a lot of things and romanticize about the past you can pretty much convince yourself that everything was better. But , you know what , maybe some things were but there was a lot that wasn't. There was a lot that was plain sh1te. The football of today and those other sports are played by individuals who are faster, stronger and every bit as skilled as what went before.
It might not be at the same skills but at the skills that are of the modern games.
What makes a great footballer today ? natural ability, a love of the sport , a dedication to their craft and a will to win and be the best they can be. Probably the same things required in any era.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 27/09/2019 22:40:39
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Simple either to score or defend well
DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 267 - 27/09/2019 22:48:23
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Replying To gatha: "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?" your talking balls man. Im older than you and I have never seen such skilfull brave honest and super fit and smart players as the likes of these dubs. go back and look at the wide counts in say the 60s - 80s and also score % from frees. Hit and hope was the order of the day. fenton would field with any of them and clifford has more skill than any of them.
lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 28/09/2019 00:00:06
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Replying To gatha: "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?" Intelligence, bravery and an unwavering determination makes a county footballer!
At all levels now; senior, intermediate and junior; as far down as minor, the strength and athleticism exists.
Thankfully coaching is evolving and those not naturally blessed are being equipped with the fundamentals as far as is possible.
The difference is a split second; making the right decision; taking the chance or passing up the gamble. Being able to do that off both sides; in the most pressurised situation, results from preparation. That preparation takes a dogged determination and sacrifice. The lesser player passes up the gamble; the difference between top shelf and average is that split second and that choice; either way both players have committed wholeheartedly to being there and making that choice.
I believe that every group in the country; every county squad have a majority that are willing to forego everything and give the commitment. Most of these young men are intelligent (not all football intelligent) and few have that raw natural ability - that is why there is a gulf. To answer the question about Gooch: I believe he would have shone in any era. He possessed the traits: Intelligence, bravery (physical & mental) and commitment. As did Matt Connor, McGuigan et al.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the 40+ players who featured in the All Ireland final & replay don't possess the fundamental skills. As Whammo86 already highlighted the skills are abundant in our games throughout the country.
Perhaps the issue is with the viewer. Can we not see the subtly of their application amongst the distraction of game-plans and tactics?
Would Jako have fielded above Moran? Would Darren Fay mark Con? Paidi or McCaffery? Not questions which need to be answered; players; athletes and footballers to be admired and appreciated.
Gatha - you are 62; young enough to see the present and lucky enough to appreciate "golden" eras. Don't question it; coach it if you can and embrace it for what it is: Pure love of sport & pride in club and parish.
fizzygravy (USA) - Posts: 144 - 28/09/2019 01:31:53
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A few million to the county board doesnt hurt.
HighStoolBandit (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 28/09/2019 10:45:12
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Replying To fizzygravy: "Intelligence, bravery and an unwavering determination makes a county footballer!
At all levels now; senior, intermediate and junior; as far down as minor, the strength and athleticism exists.
Thankfully coaching is evolving and those not naturally blessed are being equipped with the fundamentals as far as is possible.
The difference is a split second; making the right decision; taking the chance or passing up the gamble. Being able to do that off both sides; in the most pressurised situation, results from preparation. That preparation takes a dogged determination and sacrifice. The lesser player passes up the gamble; the difference between top shelf and average is that split second and that choice; either way both players have committed wholeheartedly to being there and making that choice.
I believe that every group in the country; every county squad have a majority that are willing to forego everything and give the commitment. Most of these young men are intelligent (not all football intelligent) and few have that raw natural ability - that is why there is a gulf. To answer the question about Gooch: I believe he would have shone in any era. He possessed the traits: Intelligence, bravery (physical & mental) and commitment. As did Matt Connor, McGuigan et al.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the 40+ players who featured in the All Ireland final & replay don't possess the fundamental skills. As Whammo86 already highlighted the skills are abundant in our games throughout the country.
Perhaps the issue is with the viewer. Can we not see the subtly of their application amongst the distraction of game-plans and tactics?
Would Jako have fielded above Moran? Would Darren Fay mark Con? Paidi or McCaffery? Not questions which need to be answered; players; athletes and footballers to be admired and appreciated.
Gatha - you are 62; young enough to see the present and lucky enough to appreciate "golden" eras. Don't question it; coach it if you can and embrace it for what it is: Pure love of sport & pride in club and parish." I do appreciate what these players bring to the game but i can't embrace it. I think today's players are very talented but the way the game is played they are not allowed to show their skills. As a nuetral watching the 2nd half of the All- Ireland was boring. The drawn game and the 1st half of the replay was very good. Donegal and Kerry was a great game. those games were few and far between. The fact that every year they consider rule changes says more then anyone can say about todays game.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 28/09/2019 12:42:52
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Replying To gatha: " Replying To fizzygravy: "Intelligence, bravery and an unwavering determination makes a county footballer!
At all levels now; senior, intermediate and junior; as far down as minor, the strength and athleticism exists.
Thankfully coaching is evolving and those not naturally blessed are being equipped with the fundamentals as far as is possible.
The difference is a split second; making the right decision; taking the chance or passing up the gamble. Being able to do that off both sides; in the most pressurised situation, results from preparation. That preparation takes a dogged determination and sacrifice. The lesser player passes up the gamble; the difference between top shelf and average is that split second and that choice; either way both players have committed wholeheartedly to being there and making that choice.
I believe that every group in the country; every county squad have a majority that are willing to forego everything and give the commitment. Most of these young men are intelligent (not all football intelligent) and few have that raw natural ability - that is why there is a gulf. To answer the question about Gooch: I believe he would have shone in any era. He possessed the traits: Intelligence, bravery (physical & mental) and commitment. As did Matt Connor, McGuigan et al.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the 40+ players who featured in the All Ireland final & replay don't possess the fundamental skills. As Whammo86 already highlighted the skills are abundant in our games throughout the country.
Perhaps the issue is with the viewer. Can we not see the subtly of their application amongst the distraction of game-plans and tactics?
Would Jako have fielded above Moran? Would Darren Fay mark Con? Paidi or McCaffery? Not questions which need to be answered; players; athletes and footballers to be admired and appreciated.
Gatha - you are 62; young enough to see the present and lucky enough to appreciate "golden" eras. Don't question it; coach it if you can and embrace it for what it is: Pure love of sport & pride in club and parish." I do appreciate what these players bring to the game but i can't embrace it. I think today's players are very talented but the way the game is played they are not allowed to show their skills. As a nuetral watching the 2nd half of the All- Ireland was boring. The drawn game and the 1st half of the replay was very good. Donegal and Kerry was a great game. those games were few and far between. The fact that every year they consider rule changes says more then anyone can say about todays game."
boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 28/09/2019 13:51:27
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Replying To gatha: " Replying To fizzygravy: "Intelligence, bravery and an unwavering determination makes a county footballer!
At all levels now; senior, intermediate and junior; as far down as minor, the strength and athleticism exists.
Thankfully coaching is evolving and those not naturally blessed are being equipped with the fundamentals as far as is possible.
The difference is a split second; making the right decision; taking the chance or passing up the gamble. Being able to do that off both sides; in the most pressurised situation, results from preparation. That preparation takes a dogged determination and sacrifice. The lesser player passes up the gamble; the difference between top shelf and average is that split second and that choice; either way both players have committed wholeheartedly to being there and making that choice.
I believe that every group in the country; every county squad have a majority that are willing to forego everything and give the commitment. Most of these young men are intelligent (not all football intelligent) and few have that raw natural ability - that is why there is a gulf. To answer the question about Gooch: I believe he would have shone in any era. He possessed the traits: Intelligence, bravery (physical & mental) and commitment. As did Matt Connor, McGuigan et al.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the 40+ players who featured in the All Ireland final & replay don't possess the fundamental skills. As Whammo86 already highlighted the skills are abundant in our games throughout the country.
Perhaps the issue is with the viewer. Can we not see the subtly of their application amongst the distraction of game-plans and tactics?
Would Jako have fielded above Moran? Would Darren Fay mark Con? Paidi or McCaffery? Not questions which need to be answered; players; athletes and footballers to be admired and appreciated.
Gatha - you are 62; young enough to see the present and lucky enough to appreciate "golden" eras. Don't question it; coach it if you can and embrace it for what it is: Pure love of sport & pride in club and parish." I do appreciate what these players bring to the game but i can't embrace it. I think today's players are very talented but the way the game is played they are not allowed to show their skills. As a nuetral watching the 2nd half of the All- Ireland was boring. The drawn game and the 1st half of the replay was very good. Donegal and Kerry was a great game. those games were few and far between. The fact that every year they consider rule changes says more then anyone can say about todays game."
Poster here talking about D Moran and Fenton well although great players in their own right wouldn't last pissing time against Jacko, Mullins or Tohill and they had no strength and conditioning done over the years.
Forwards like Linden, Matt Connor John Egan could take a man on an beat him , none of this across the park crap looking for an opening like you'd see at a basket ball arena.
Forwards like Rock and Mannion can kick a point from the 45 on the run but who else can?
I'd rather watch the all Ireland final of 1991 on YouTube than any of this decade. And that's no disrespect to Dublin , they a fine side . But in saying that none of the present forwards had the same skill, movement , accuracy, ability that Bernard Brogan had. He had the lot.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 28/09/2019 13:58:16
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I agree 100% with you.
Poster here talking about D Moran and Fenton well although great players in their own right wouldn't last pissing time against Jacko, Mullins or Tohill and they had no strength and conditioning done over the years.
Forwards like Linden, Matt Connor John Egan could take a man on an beat him , none of this across the park crap looking for an opening like you'd see at a basket ball arena.
Forwards like Rock and Mannion can kick a point from the 45 on the run but who else can?
I'd rather watch the all Ireland final of 1991 on YouTube than any of this decade. And that's no disrespect to Dublin , they a fine side . But in saying that none of the present forwards had the same skill, movement , accuracy, ability that Bernard Brogan had. He had the lot.
Maybe the reason players go "across the park " is because it's a different problem they face now. There's often 14 of the opposition inside their own half of the field protecting the D and none of the forwards you mention from back whenever had to deal with that.
Even at that , I don't know what you're looking at if you cannot recognize how the likes of Con O Callaghan manages to score some of his goals.
Yes, that's right he takes on his man or men and beats them. Game was a lot more open and different 40 years ago.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 28/09/2019 17:20:08
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From some posters here what makes a great footballer is money pure and simple, that is all.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 28/09/2019 18:02:20
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Replying To gatha: "I am 62 yrs old and a fan of both codes. After watching the football replay I was wondering what makes a great footballer today. The catching, kick passing, long range scoring and basically taking your man on is gone from the game for the most part you see them occasionally. I wonder would the Gooch even be considered for a senior panel today as an 18 or 19 year old. Now i will say the players today are superior athletes as far as strength and fitness but the skills required today are far different from say the 80's or 90's. To me he skill set from earlier years are more complete then today's footballers. If a player today scores from any kind of distance it is considered a fantastic score. Frank McGuigan and Matt Connor did this regularly with both feet. If you catch a clean ball today you get a free kick JackO, Mullins etc lived catching balls in traffic. Never saw John Egan or Jimmy Keaveney work their way into big square to turn around and go back out the field. I know i am getting a bit old but besides strength and fitness what is required to be an inter-county footballer today?" Would be an interesting debate OP but unfortunately around here nowadays you are only allowed to have the opinion that football is at an all time high level and we are in the presence of the greatest team ever. To suggest otherwise will only draw scorn from the usual empty vessels and their Antrim fan-boy. Although at least he has said he has pity on us so that's something.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 28/09/2019 19:47:08
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "I agree 100% with you.
Poster here talking about D Moran and Fenton well although great players in their own right wouldn't last pissing time against Jacko, Mullins or Tohill and they had no strength and conditioning done over the years.
Forwards like Linden, Matt Connor John Egan could take a man on an beat him , none of this across the park crap looking for an opening like you'd see at a basket ball arena.
Forwards like Rock and Mannion can kick a point from the 45 on the run but who else can?
I'd rather watch the all Ireland final of 1991 on YouTube than any of this decade. And that's no disrespect to Dublin , they a fine side . But in saying that none of the present forwards had the same skill, movement , accuracy, ability that Bernard Brogan had. He had the lot.
Maybe the reason players go "across the park " is because it's a different problem they face now. There's often 14 of the opposition inside their own half of the field protecting the D and none of the forwards you mention from back whenever had to deal with that.
Even at that , I don't know what you're looking at if you cannot recognize how the likes of Con O Callaghan manages to score some of his goals.
Yes, that's right he takes on his man or men and beats them. Game was a lot more open and different 40 years ago." Look mate . Even FIFA stopped the back pass in scoccer 20 odd years ago but it's a budding thing with the GA A.
I'd hate to be a so called inter county forward having to call up my keeper to kick a 45. What an embarrassment that must be to any forward.
The games glorified basketball where you might kick it an odd time.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 28/09/2019 23:29:56
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Any footballer needs pace, conditioning and a competitive attitude. After that, it's:
1 Game intelligence - a ability to read the play and to be in the right place at the right time and to see the gaps and opportunities before they happen.
2. Leadership quality - an ability to inspire a team (by example, words or both), a bloody-minded will to win and an ability to raise their game when their team is struggling.
3. Ruthlessness - a rage at losing, a psychotic willingness to beat the other team out the gate and the ability to keep a cool head under pressure.
4. Above-average skills: unpredictability, exceptional fielding (springs in the heels, timing, difficult to dispossess once the ball is caught, quick distribution), a solo run which doesn't go out of control at speed, ability to kick a ball accurately off the ground, ability to put it on a plate when foot passing, score with both feet from the wing and from in front of the posts, feints and swerves to give his marker twisted blood, and an ability to time a good shoulder.
5. Love of place, humility and manners off the pitch and the ability to inspire the next generation.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 29/09/2019 01:11:26
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Replying To Greenfield: "Would be an interesting debate OP but unfortunately around here nowadays you are only allowed to have the opinion that football is at an all time high level and we are in the presence of the greatest team ever. To suggest otherwise will only draw scorn from the usual empty vessels and their Antrim fan-boy. Although at least he has said he has pity on us so that's something." Haha Antrim fan boy
I'm a fan of the GAA and you lads can have your opinions. I don't really understand it though.
I've watched plenty of All Ireland gold, I don't see why we'd want to go back to that era. I'm sure it was good at the time but things have moved on.
I'd much rather enjoy the games as they are now than hark back to a long gone age. Jack O Shea or Tohill are not coming back.
We have our own great players today though.
I don't really know if they're better than what's gone before, it doesn't matter they are testing themselves against each other. I enjoy the games.
I wish there was more than Dublin and Kerry in the real hunt for Sam. I wish we'd more similarly matched teams and the 2018 championship was shocking because of a lack of competitiveness.
2019 was way better and the style of play has improved a lot since the extreme blankets hey day are 3-5 years ago.
I did like the old centre half forward style player. Trevor Giles, Brian McGuigan and the like. That sort of nice play maker pick out players on the run in space was great to watch is not really effective now with extra defenders now inside.
It's not all bad though, I think half back play and quick attacking has improved loads and that's incredibly exciting in its own right.
Who knows what the future will hold. Teams will have to figure out keep ball tactics in a similar way as the extreme blanket was figured out. Who knows after that maybe there's more space inside again and long kicking becomes effective again.
I'd rather we just see how things play out, rather than just try to stick our games back to one era and play variations of the exact same game until the end of time.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 29/09/2019 11:19:52
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Coddle, the food of champions
CaogaCuig (Dublin) - Posts: 63 - 29/09/2019 16:50:49
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It's hard to compare players of different eras.
Strength and conditioning techniques progress and there's no doubt that players are fitter these days.
Nevertheless, if players from the 50s, 60s and 70s had been playing today, they would have been raised up to today's fitness standards.
The only way you can make any sort of comparison is to compare skills.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 29/09/2019 17:24:51
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Replying To Whammo86: "Haha Antrim fan boy
I'm a fan of the GAA and you lads can have your opinions. I don't really understand it though.
I've watched plenty of All Ireland gold, I don't see why we'd want to go back to that era. I'm sure it was good at the time but things have moved on.
I'd much rather enjoy the games as they are now than hark back to a long gone age. Jack O Shea or Tohill are not coming back.
We have our own great players today though.
I don't really know if they're better than what's gone before, it doesn't matter they are testing themselves against each other. I enjoy the games.
I wish there was more than Dublin and Kerry in the real hunt for Sam. I wish we'd more similarly matched teams and the 2018 championship was shocking because of a lack of competitiveness.
2019 was way better and the style of play has improved a lot since the extreme blankets hey day are 3-5 years ago.
I did like the old centre half forward style player. Trevor Giles, Brian McGuigan and the like. That sort of nice play maker pick out players on the run in space was great to watch is not really effective now with extra defenders now inside.
It's not all bad though, I think half back play and quick attacking has improved loads and that's incredibly exciting in its own right.
Who knows what the future will hold. Teams will have to figure out keep ball tactics in a similar way as the extreme blanket was figured out. Who knows after that maybe there's more space inside again and long kicking becomes effective again.
I'd rather we just see how things play out, rather than just try to stick our games back to one era and play variations of the exact same game until the end of time." I wouldn't say we are in the hunt as such, it was just our turn to take a whooping this year although you could say we're the tier 2 champions this year of the amateur championship.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 29/09/2019 19:59:28
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I wouldn't say we are in the hunt as such, it was just our turn to take a whooping this year although you could say we're the tier 2 champions this year of the amateur championship." You should have won the first day. I felt Keane's approach to the spare man was on the conservative side for instance.
In the replay Murchan's goal was hard for you to come back from and Dublin controlled the pace of the second half. You squandered a lot of good positions in the first half playing it directly into full forward. From 5-1 down you really owned the rest of the first half. You can put it up to Dublin in a way that no one did in 2018.
You'll only be better next season and Dublin's bench was certainly stronger 2 to 3 years ago than it was this year.
I see 3+ All Ireland's in Kerry in the next 10 years and some mighty battles with the Dubs.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 29/09/2019 20:55:06
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