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Replying To TheUsername: "I get honestly that, that is the narrative but it's all subjective. What is it specifically that Dublin do, that other counties don't, or just count afford objectively? What does the envied eye see and wish they had? To give an example I would be envious of counties who have some great COE facilities in their counties that benefit all the grades. Mayo are planning to have two in their county alone. Dublin intercounty currently train in the club fields at Innisfallis GAA club in Dublin, they train at separate sites to the u de rage teams. So objectively what is it specifically Dublin have in prep other counties want, aspire to or would envy?" That would be the $64,000 question, I'm sure the mayos and Kerry's know what training Dublin do. They would have their own coaches implementing their own programmes. All racking up the money. Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 660 - 03/10/2019 10:17:29 2241105 Link
The Dubs had to buy All Irelands! HighStoolBandit (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 03/10/2019 11:33:38 2241127 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I get honestly that, that is the narrative but it's all subjective. What is it specifically that Dublin do, that other counties don't, or just count afford objectively? What does the envied eye see and wish they had? To give an example I would be envious of counties who have some great COE facilities in their counties that benefit all the grades. Mayo are planning to have two in their county alone. Dublin intercounty currently train in the club fields at Innisfallis GAA club in Dublin, they train at separate sites to the u de rage teams. So objectively what is it specifically Dublin have in prep other counties want, aspire to or would envy?" I don't think it's just facilities. The very top counties have paid video analysts, nutritionists, S & C coaches, access to specialist services like altitude training etc. All of this costs lots of money and when you put it all together is it any wonder the top counties are pulling away? Problem will get worse before it gets better, we are already seeing good players turn their backs on the game at the top level because they know they have no chance to compete. I've no idea what the answer is, I'm just pointing out the reality of what the smaller counties are facing. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/10/2019 12:52:55 2241143 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "I don't think it's just facilities. The very top counties have paid video analysts, nutritionists, S & C coaches, access to specialist services like altitude training etc. All of this costs lots of money and when you put it all together is it any wonder the top counties are pulling away? Problem will get worse before it gets better, we are already seeing good players turn their backs on the game at the top level because they know they have no chance to compete. I've no idea what the answer is, I'm just pointing out the reality of what the smaller counties are facing." Jeepers Gerry altitude training in a new one on me, whose doing that, i wouldn't be surprised if its us, but have never heard of us doing are Kerry doing it, is that common place now? Their does to seem to be a t bit of an arms race going on with backrooms, i do wonder how much of it true though and how much is assumption, i know that Dublin facilities and backroom team arent as big and facilities certainly not as good as many believe, Dublin train on club ptiches, but we want for little and are in that group of big spenders with Cork, Yourselves Mayo and a few others. Is the gap getting wider, probably, but its a gap that was always there really and that an important point also, Dublin and Kerry have nearly won about 50% of all the All Ireland titles, with a handful of counties bringing home repeated success, really there was always a a gap, maybe its the modern context, the arms race is just as it splaying out. There was always little or no change of someone from a certain county winning the whole sha bang, as unfortunate as it is, i think its fact. i do wonder if what we are seeing now is similar to what happened when football creeped into soccer, with Utd Arsenal Chelsea and a few others being on the right side of success when money flooded into the game. With histroic big clubs like Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, Villa being on the wrong side of success at the wrong time n that sports history. Money will follow success and perhaps that is what we are seeing in GAA now with more money creeping in then ever before, those competing and being successful will future proofing themselves now to always be there, Dublin Kerry, Mayo etc. Ive no real answer either just musing is all. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/10/2019 14:08:22 2241158 Link
You would have to laugh at the Rossies and the likes complaining about Dublins money and population. When they are trouncing Leitrim in the Connacht Championship they have a right good laugh in Roscommon and theres no mention then... that they have double the population we have or more money as well. Oh Leitrim are crap and the worst thing is we learned nothing about how good or bad we are from that game. Oh well lets move on to the next game. Then when they get the same tanking in the Supers 8's it not fair... My heart bleeds. Ludovic_Giuly (Leitrim) - Posts: 111 - 03/10/2019 15:40:02 2241175 Link
Replying To Ludovic_Giuly: "You would have to laugh at the Rossies and the likes complaining about Dublins money and population. When they are trouncing Leitrim in the Connacht Championship they have a right good laugh in Roscommon and theres no mention then... that they have double the population we have or more money as well. Oh Leitrim are crap and the worst thing is we learned nothing about how good or bad we are from that game. Oh well lets move on to the next game. Then when they get the same tanking in the Supers 8's it not fair... My heart bleeds." I made the same argument. Poor Kerry when they play Dublin. Poor Clare when they get to play Kerry. Look no further than the club scene for same disparity. As long as there is sponsorship involved then a return is expected. Ad infinitum. And before the point is made for me, I totally accept Donegal club and county teams are givers and takers too depending on the pairings. Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 03/10/2019 18:50:18 2241208 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Jeepers Gerry altitude training in a new one on me, whose doing that, i wouldn't be surprised if its us, but have never heard of us doing are Kerry doing it, is that common place now? Their does to seem to be a t bit of an arms race going on with backrooms, i do wonder how much of it true though and how much is assumption, i know that Dublin facilities and backroom team arent as big and facilities certainly not as good as many believe, Dublin train on club ptiches, but we want for little and are in that group of big spenders with Cork, Yourselves Mayo and a few others. Is the gap getting wider, probably, but its a gap that was always there really and that an important point also, Dublin and Kerry have nearly won about 50% of all the All Ireland titles, with a handful of counties bringing home repeated success, really there was always a a gap, maybe its the modern context, the arms race is just as it splaying out. There was always little or no change of someone from a certain county winning the whole sha bang, as unfortunate as it is, i think its fact. i do wonder if what we are seeing now is similar to what happened when football creeped into soccer, with Utd Arsenal Chelsea and a few others being on the right side of success when money flooded into the game. With histroic big clubs like Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, Villa being on the wrong side of success at the wrong time n that sports history. Money will follow success and perhaps that is what we are seeing in GAA now with more money creeping in then ever before, those competing and being successful will future proofing themselves now to always be there, Dublin Kerry, Mayo etc. Ive no real answer either just musing is all." Gap was always there but with the huge advances in sports science since the turn of the century money makes more difference now than ever. I always smile when I see the naive (or more likely disingenuous) posts on here claiming that money makes no difference and it doesn't kick the ball over the bar etc. That's not a dig at Dublin btw, I doubt my own county want for anything in terms of their preparation along with a few others, but we are definitely in an era of the haves and have nots. I don't think a great group of players is enough any more, there are many other things you need to get right and most of them cost money. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/10/2019 19:50:22 2241216 Link
Replying To Ludovic_Giuly: "You would have to laugh at the Rossies and the likes complaining about Dublins money and population. When they are trouncing Leitrim in the Connacht Championship they have a right good laugh in Roscommon and theres no mention then... that they have double the population we have or more money as well. Oh Leitrim are crap and the worst thing is we learned nothing about how good or bad we are from that game. Oh well lets move on to the next game. Then when they get the same tanking in the Supers 8's it not fair... My heart bleeds." Not trying to insult you or Leitrim people, but if the gaa get there way then ye won't be playing Roscommon Mayo or Galway ever again because ye will be playing in tier 2. gallarus14 (Kerry) - Posts: 127 - 03/10/2019 21:10:57 2241233 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Gap was always there but with the huge advances in sports science since the turn of the century money makes more difference now than ever. I always smile when I see the naive (or more likely disingenuous) posts on here claiming that money makes no difference and it doesn't kick the ball over the bar etc. That's not a dig at Dublin btw, I doubt my own county want for anything in terms of their preparation along with a few others, but we are definitely in an era of the haves and have nots. I don't think a great group of players is enough any more, there are many other things you need to get right and most of them cost money." I agree but the gap between say Dublin to Kerry/Mayo/Donegal/Tyrone etc is not a large as the gap down to Leitrim, Sligo, Waterford, Carlow and the likes. Just having a great bunch of players was never enough, management and the board setup behind it be in cash and everyone rowing in the one direction was always needed. I believe Cork for example have 15-30 players at all times that should be capable to challenge for Sam every year...they have 2/3 times as many clubs as most counties. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 03/10/2019 21:36:05 2241242 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Gap was always there but with the huge advances in sports science since the turn of the century money makes more difference now than ever. I always smile when I see the naive (or more likely disingenuous) posts on here claiming that money makes no difference and it doesn't kick the ball over the bar etc. That's not a dig at Dublin btw, I doubt my own county want for anything in terms of their preparation along with a few others, but we are definitely in an era of the haves and have nots. I don't think a great group of players is enough any more, there are many other things you need to get right and most of them cost money." I think the debate isn't absolute, I think you need a baseline finance to contribute to an overall talented team if you want to be successful. But i do believe you can throw as much money at it as you like, but unless you have quality you will get no where. Cork spent the most in 2018, for very little return. Always comes back to talent in my opinion. But if you want to compete in and at S8 level with an eye on an All Ireland you need a baseline of sports science etc to enable and compete. One piece of analysis I've done is looking at what enables finance in terms of the big spenders, key aspects of raising finance are big city teams, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick are all big spenders, sponsorship and population/ commercial market plays a huge role and counties with broad diaspora on the western seaboard, who have put corporate structures in place in regard to fundraising like Kerry and Mayo. Both do well with sponsorship to be fair to both to. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/10/2019 21:37:50 2241245 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I think the debate isn't absolute, I think you need a baseline finance to contribute to an overall talented team if you want to be successful. But i do believe you can throw as much money at it as you like, but unless you have quality you will get no where. Cork spent the most in 2018, for very little return. Always comes back to talent in my opinion. But if you want to compete in and at S8 level with an eye on an All Ireland you need a baseline of sports science etc to enable and compete. One piece of analysis I've done is looking at what enables finance in terms of the big spenders, key aspects of raising finance are big city teams, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick are all big spenders, sponsorship and population/ commercial market plays a huge role and counties with broad diaspora on the western seaboard, who have put corporate structures in place in regard to fundraising like Kerry and Mayo. Both do well with sponsorship to be fair to both to." How can you write so many words but actually manage to say nothing, you'd have made it as a politician. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/10/2019 22:06:29 2241252 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I think the debate isn't absolute, I think you need a baseline finance to contribute to an overall talented team if you want to be successful. But i do believe you can throw as much money at it as you like, but unless you have quality you will get no where. Cork spent the most in 2018, for very little return. Always comes back to talent in my opinion. But if you want to compete in and at S8 level with an eye on an All Ireland you need a baseline of sports science etc to enable and compete. One piece of analysis I've done is looking at what enables finance in terms of the big spenders, key aspects of raising finance are big city teams, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick are all big spenders, sponsorship and population/ commercial market plays a huge role and counties with broad diaspora on the western seaboard, who have put corporate structures in place in regard to fundraising like Kerry and Mayo. Both do well with sponsorship to be fair to both to." There is a point of diminishing returns with anything. That said, investment over a long period coupled with good management and coaching at all levels should nearly always yield results. Of course talent is a prerequisite, money cannot buy success with average players but it absolutely can help gain success with good players. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/10/2019 00:56:50 2241268 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "There is a point of diminishing returns with anything. That said, investment over a long period coupled with good management and coaching at all levels should nearly always yield results. Of course talent is a prerequisite, money cannot buy success with average players but it absolutely can help gain success with good players." I think in actual fact it starts earlier, the money comes later on in terms of how it enables senior success, there is a cradle to grave pathway in a GAA career and i think the cultivation and structures around that are important. Im talking about introducing GAA to young people, participation and club, county, its an area Dublin have particularly done a lot of work and one of the reasons, i think we are successful. I think the parish model in the GAA, particularly the more rural areas have always had a symbiotic relationship of parish, school, club and talent has been identified much easier is small rural areas and cultivated. In many ways the money we spend on GDO isnt needed in more rural areas as its been done naturally for years, where there might be one school and one club. Its a model that doesnt work in Dublin and i assume increasingly more in big towns and urban centres. Where you can have say 10 -15 schools all in the catchment area of one club or on the border of another and multiply that increasingly along the City. I often find the role of GDO is misinterpreted as a coach, but this isnt the case really, its more to facilitate that pathway of cradle grave of a GAA career. Its particularly worked well in Dublin and to be honest been a terrific innovation for the growth of the game and success. For me i think that investment is more critical then the one at senior, but only my opinion. Its often what we would call getting the right structures in place and i think its as important as big spends for counties. I think it happens mor eventually ruraly, i think its difficult in counties with big urban centers and rural areas like, Cork and Galway, Antrim and Down and perhaps in one big Urban center like Dublin the full GDO route is the way to go. Im soap boxing i know, but i think deciding on that type of investment if priority over all the sports science in the world at senior. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/10/2019 10:24:51 2241293 Link
Kevin McStay having to temporarily pay for the roscommon hotel. Theres an example for dubs when they say stuff like money doesn't put the ball over the bar gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 04/10/2019 18:34:50 2241384 Link
Replying To gahfan: "Kevin McStay having to temporarily pay for the roscommon hotel. Theres an example for dubs when they say stuff like money doesn't put the ball over the bar" It doesn't. Why are you singling out Dublin to illustrate your point? Has Wexford ever had to do this? Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Cork? Anyone? Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 04/10/2019 18:59:29 2241386 Link
Apparently the dubs share ideas with the all blacks - another example that a roscommon wouldn't have. Anyway kind of sick of it all myself. It's all a turn off. gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 04/10/2019 19:34:56 2241395 Link
Doubt gavin ever had to temporarily pay for a hotel gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 04/10/2019 19:42:38 2241397 Link
The winter will be Dublin players and management getting awards while a player like Andy Moran had to retire with no medal. Scandalous really. We should be boycotting gaa matches or marching to highlight the inequalities gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 04/10/2019 19:45:05 2241398 Link
Replying To gahfan: "Apparently the dubs share ideas with the all blacks - another example that a roscommon wouldn't have. Anyway kind of sick of it all myself. It's all a turn off." Ah yes "apparently". People love using that word around here. Means nothing. Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 04/10/2019 19:52:34 2241400 Link
Replying To gahfan: "Apparently the dubs share ideas with the all blacks - another example that a roscommon wouldn't have. Anyway kind of sick of it all myself. It's all a turn off." You'd have to feel sorry for the other teams at the rugby World Cup in that case. ;) TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/10/2019 20:29:23 2241407 Link