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Are We Too Critical Of Referees

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Watching the Sunday game last night referees and match officiating were the main talking points again. Certainly it was entertaining all be it dramatic Donal Òg comments about analysts who are the purists for our games. On the referees and match officials it was heart breaking as a Limerick man that the 65 at the end of the game on Saturday was missed but in real time it happened so fast it's hard to blame the linesman for missing it. Sean Clere got a bit of a doing from some supporters and the analysts on the Sunday game on Sunday yes he missed a few things but I think the only controversial mistake he made was he could have played advantage for Tipperary second goal.

The main problem with match officiating is the GAA are reluctant to use the technology available to help the referee, also linesmen, umpires and the fourth official should be more involved with helping him out too. This has been discussed numerous times on the Sunday game too yet the GAA are failing to act and help the referees to do the job the best they can.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 29/07/2019 13:48:50    2218186

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It is correct to be critical of decisions. Note "decisions" not necessarily referees. The GAA's using control systems in a game that has doubled in speed, athletes who are twice as strong, know how to take advantage (simulation) on one of the largest playing arena in sport. Generally the referees are years old than the players they are expected to keep up with and are mostly on their own when the ball is hit 100 yds away from them. The player has 14 others to assist them. A bit of common sense would tell you this can not be done without two refs four lines men, scoring technology and a time clock. Get rid of the umpires.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2019 14:26:55    2218226

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we need 2 refs on the field

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 29/07/2019 14:38:46    2218231

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No.

Referees are fans of the game otherwise they wouldn't be doing the job. Because they are fans of the game they also have bias towards certain teams just like fans do.

However, if referees do come out and say they have made a mistake it isn't going to benefit them. If referees don't come out and say they make mistakes the powers to be in GAA wont acknowledge there either needs to be a change in the rules or something has to be implemented to help them.

The GAA are going around with their head buried in the sand. Every year there's a handful of games that have been decided by unfair or bad refereeing decisions.

Helm82 (Armagh) - Posts: 13 - 29/07/2019 14:40:32    2218232

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Some posters on here certainly are.

Blackening the names of refs online for years.

They know who they are.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 29/07/2019 14:45:54    2218237

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Definitely needs to be 2 referees. It's daft stuff altogether still expecting one man to keep up with play and make the right calls. GAA are dinosaurs where this is concerned.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 29/07/2019 14:50:46    2218239

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I think some refs do get a very hard time whenever they get anything wrong. There is so much on the line now for teams that little things like the missed KK touch for a 65 at the end of Saturday's game will infuriate many fans. I think 2 refs is inevitable given the speed of play nowadays, the use of technology for key decisions also needs to be looked at and I think a review in general of rules that are simply not adhered to need to be looked at e.g. the steps rule. Colin Fennelly took a good 10-11 steps for his batted goal the other evening and another similar amount for a nice score in the 2nd half. I understand there has always been an interpretation of this rule and by and large most players get away with at least 6 steps but in a massive game such as a semi final how a lad can take double figures in steps and not get blown up is beyond me. It is also an issue in football too.

TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 206 - 29/07/2019 15:01:13    2218246

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How would 2 refs work? If one ref has a style of 'letting things go' and the other is on the whistle to enforce all indiscretions?

SaffronSpice (Antrim) - Posts: 3 - 29/07/2019 15:19:30    2218255

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Posted this on another thread.
The whole GAA culture around referees is wrong though.
Like it or not, referees get a rule book and a whistle and its off you go to whatever club and its sink or swim as a bunch of savages on the side line berate your every decision, get called everything under the sun, maybe a few slaps for your troubles and then the GAA wonder why we don't have better referees?
If you go into Wexford Rugby club (or any rugby club) and start mouthing off at a referee, you will get told to shut your mouth. At a GAA match you are more likely to get roared on or more people roaring with you.
An attitude change is needed at every level towards referees in the GAA. I will be playing for another 10 years (if they sort out the fixtures mess), after that would I consider refereeing? Not unless something changes.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 29/07/2019 16:13:58    2218293

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Posted this on another thread.
The whole GAA culture around referees is wrong though.
Like it or not, referees get a rule book and a whistle and its off you go to whatever club and its sink or swim as a bunch of savages on the side line berate your every decision, get called everything under the sun, maybe a few slaps for your troubles and then the GAA wonder why we don't have better referees?
If you go into Wexford Rugby club (or any rugby club) and start mouthing off at a referee, you will get told to shut your mouth. At a GAA match you are more likely to get roared on or more people roaring with you.
An attitude change is needed at every level towards referees in the GAA. I will be playing for another 10 years (if they sort out the fixtures mess), after that would I consider refereeing? Not unless something changes."
Very well said.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 29/07/2019 16:20:39    2218303

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Posted this on another thread.
The whole GAA culture around referees is wrong though.
Like it or not, referees get a rule book and a whistle and its off you go to whatever club and its sink or swim as a bunch of savages on the side line berate your every decision, get called everything under the sun, maybe a few slaps for your troubles and then the GAA wonder why we don't have better referees?
If you go into Wexford Rugby club (or any rugby club) and start mouthing off at a referee, you will get told to shut your mouth. At a GAA match you are more likely to get roared on or more people roaring with you.
An attitude change is needed at every level towards referees in the GAA. I will be playing for another 10 years (if they sort out the fixtures mess), after that would I consider refereeing? Not unless something changes."
If You think rubgy fans arbt as bad go to a few Munster games. Refs are always deemed to be robbing them. The Neil Back incident is still famous in Limerick

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 29/07/2019 16:22:10    2218304

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Personally referees individually are not the problem it's the rules and badly deployed systems. Take the 65 that never was in KK v Limerick game. Umpire couldn't see it, linesman thinks he may have seen something but umpire didn't see it so he thinks it probably didn't happen. That is the system failure - empowering two people to make decisions, results in none being called. On the Hawkeye decision Re point that was and goal that wasn't. Again technology called the correct decision a point was given, so how come the game continued for a full 32 seconds in which a goal was scored? Ludicrous and shocking example of players, public and officials being let down by a flawed use of technology. If Hawkeye is used the game HAS to stop while a decision is made. These two incidents are the fault of no official but both highlight how poor the games are officiated. Don't worry nothing will be done u til we have a real controversy.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 29/07/2019 16:28:03    2218310

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Replying To Canuck:  "It is correct to be critical of decisions. Note "decisions" not necessarily referees. The GAA's using control systems in a game that has doubled in speed, athletes who are twice as strong, know how to take advantage (simulation) on one of the largest playing arena in sport. Generally the referees are years old than the players they are expected to keep up with and are mostly on their own when the ball is hit 100 yds away from them. The player has 14 others to assist them. A bit of common sense would tell you this can not be done without two refs four lines men, scoring technology and a time clock. Get rid of the umpires."
one umpire at each end should be required to be a referee (no different to linesman) especially in big games!

AND BEFORE PEOPLE BERATE ME, I APPRECIATE THAT A LOT OF REFS DO BRING ALONG REFEREES AS UMPIRES BUT MANY DO NOT!

faithful4ever (Offaly) - Posts: 209 - 29/07/2019 16:33:17    2218315

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No is the short answer .There are some downright bad refs out there.
I will say however that Mr Cleere is getting more than his fair share of criticism.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 29/07/2019 16:37:15    2218319

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Replying To SaffronSpice:  "How would 2 refs work? If one ref has a style of 'letting things go' and the other is on the whistle to enforce all indiscretions?"
It takes time. patience and understanding. It took time in hockey. Now you hear, the back ref got that and 99.9% of the time it is a correct call.
The let things go is nonsense and part of the problems. Players play the referee and know they have a 50/50 chance of getting away with something. Especially if the last three frees were called against his team. Or, or your team just had a player sent off. It was ridiculous yesterday what happened after McGrath sending off. A Wexford player rugby tackled in the square and at least 6 other blatant fouls. By the way I am not anti Tipp.
Another thing irritates me. Posters (some from these counties) on here saying it was Limerick own fault they lost. Too many wides, bad passes. Wexford ran out of steam and over trained. Could not score or make a pass in 20 minutes etc. etc. Bad decisions on the line. The subs contributed nothing. Is this how we want to justify refereeing mistakes that cost a team to lose by a point ? They deserve to lose because of these things ?
The reasons we have way too many incorrect decisions is the rule are not applied period. They are applied selectively or unevenly. Not good rules to begin with. Too hard to apply. Too many opportunities for refs, and lines men to make errors. It is not about criticizing them but giving them the tools to do better.
That responsibility is the GAA's. They hang these guys out to dry trying to get every thing right in the fastest sport in the world. Use the correct number of officials conferring, rule application (players running around the field taking 12 steps) and technology to reduce errors. There is nothing wrong with reversing an incorrect call.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2019 16:59:51    2218336

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Replying To faithful4ever:  "one umpire at each end should be required to be a referee (no different to linesman) especially in big games!

AND BEFORE PEOPLE BERATE ME, I APPRECIATE THAT A LOT OF REFS DO BRING ALONG REFEREES AS UMPIRES BUT MANY DO NOT!"
Umpiring is a specific skill that takes a.litrle bit of time to develop. Having referees as umpires will not necessarily work. There is a shortage of referees as it is and they are needed for club games in their county and would find it hard to get away to.do umpire in big games.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 29/07/2019 17:01:43    2218339

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GAA needs to take flax here, the hurling referees don't seem to be properly trained.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 29/07/2019 17:27:00    2218358

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people seem to think that sean cleere is superhuman,can cover 80 yards in the same time it takes a ball to do it.
it was a bad day all round for him yesterday,did he cost us the match,well a few decisions went against us but players made bad decisions too,why dont we debate them?

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 29/07/2019 17:57:30    2218368

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Replying To perfect10:  "people seem to think that sean cleere is superhuman,can cover 80 yards in the same time it takes a ball to do it.
it was a bad day all round for him yesterday,did he cost us the match,well a few decisions went against us but players made bad decisions too,why dont we debate them?"
Agree the expectation for the ref is ridiculous. So have a ref in the half of the field where the ball will land. We do and should be discussing the players who make plenty mistakes. However if you make the analogy of a cop giving an incorrect speeding ticket and a judge issuing the death penalty to an innocent person the consequences are much different. Not for a second saying sport is live and death but Limerick or Wexford do not get another chance in 2019. So you want things to be as fair as possible for those that have made such a commitment including the officials.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2019 21:06:24    2218474

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Replying To perfect10:  "people seem to think that sean cleere is superhuman,can cover 80 yards in the same time it takes a ball to do it.
it was a bad day all round for him yesterday,did he cost us the match,well a few decisions went against us but players made bad decisions too,why dont we debate them?"
Hard luck yesterday Perfect 10. That's a good point. Don't be too hard on your boys. Playing in your first semi final as a player is hard going.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 29/07/2019 22:39:15    2218526

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