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How would you reform the championship without creating a second tier? Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 22/07/2019 12:15:00 2214627 Link 0 |
The 8 groups of 4 seeded using league positions is the obvious one. The GAA were against this when proposed by the GPA. I think they didn't want to get rid of the Provincials and they couldn't fit in a group phase afterwards them were the reasons I believe were given at the time. They did then go on to add the super 8s which is weird. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 22/07/2019 13:59:39 2214709 Link 7 |
Start the league late, around April, and finish in June. This determines where you start in the knock out championship. First Sunday in July, 8 div 4 teams play at home to 8 div 3 teams. Two weeks later, the 8 winners play 8 division 2 teams. Two weeks later the 8 winners play at home to the 8 div. 1 teams. That leaves 8 for the AI quarter finals and so on. The concept is simple, no confusing structures and no tin pot secondary trophies. All games are (hopefully fiercely contested) knock out games but no lambs are thrown to the slaughter either. It's effectively a tiered championship. Any div 4 team that plays a div 1 team has earned it and had a very memorable year in getting that far. Far better than a tin pot pot trophy. No senior provincial championship but keep it for all other grades minor, U20, club championships etc. The leagues could have a tiered start and finish also as div 1 teams won't play championship until about a month later than div 4 for example. By starting the league first an especially the championship first the div 3 and 4 teams have all the media attention. So Sunday Game in opening weeks is all about those teams so that improves their profile. The leagues could be made more interesting by introducing playoffs between 3rd top team and 3rd bottom team in div above. A pre championship league play off to decide both promotion and what round of championship you start in would great great interest for the counties. Playing league games in summer will be huge IMO. Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 22/07/2019 14:16:15 2214723 Link 0 |
Copied from one of my posts a while back: cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 22/07/2019 14:34:34 2214737 Link 0 |
Group stage provincials are the most likely to implement. Couple of different was to do it Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 22/07/2019 14:36:03 2214738 Link 0 |
Divide the 32 teams into pools and seed teams into groups based on their performance in the League (and Provincials if they are retained). Or just randomly seed teams. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 22/07/2019 17:29:52 2214851 Link 0 |
Hawkeye I have given yo my opinion to improve the lower counties on another posting so I will not repeat myself only to say that any modification to the present formats will do nothing to improve the bottom teams. More that half the county teams competing in both codes would not stand a chance against the top club teams. We all agree that the inter county scene is at least two if not three grades above club. So it is trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear with no disrespect to these counties. It is only window dressing and always has been in the attempt to make us think there is a real planned agenda to improve these teams. Something much more radical is required. Thanks for raising these issues because public opinion should matter. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 22/07/2019 18:03:30 2214873 Link 0 |
I remember. I do think your proposal to combine counties would have merit if Irish people weren't so tribalistic. There are other issues. Clare and Tipp have both been competitive in football so I can't see them forming a team with Limerick and Waterford.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 22/07/2019 18:27:13 2214884 Link 0 |
Simple shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 199 - 22/07/2019 18:58:21 2214901 Link 0 |
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 22/07/2019 19:22:06 2214913 Link 0 |
Waterford were not the last team in division 4 this year. If fact were joint 3rd on points if you take out scoring differentials and better than both and Limerick and Wexford. . We are still pathetic with zero chance of ever moving up. In the 2019 if all we are about is tribalism that is sad. Give counties the option to combine (not based on province) with funding and coaching resources the weaker counties not interested would have second thoughts. I personally would feel represented and support a football team made up of Kilkenny, Wexford Maybe Carlow and Waterford or some combination of that. Travel not an issue. 15 of the Waterford hurling team travels from Dublin to train. Some have another hour to get to West Waterford. Limerick and Clare should be together. Those teams may have occasional success but fleeting. We beat Kerry in 1958 when our football team was backboned by the great hurling team. That has not gone too well for us since. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 22/07/2019 19:51:18 2214934 Link 1 |
@Whammo86 - omahant (USA) - Posts: 2608 - 22/07/2019 23:20:17 2215040 Link 0 |
Groups of 4 are too prone to dead rubbers - mainly due to a lower frequency of draws in GAA. Instead - I'd go for a different 8x4 - Allocate a pair of Div 1 and a pair of Div 4 teams to pools A1, A2, A3 & A4. Then, allocate a pair of Div 2 and a pair of Div 3 teams to pools B1, B2, B3 & B4. Merge pools with the same number (say, A3 & B3) to form 4 groups of 8 (incl say, AB3). Each team plays 4 'A v B' group matches - 2 at home / 2 away. Top 5 of 8 from each group advances to KO 20. KO 1st Rd - AB1 v AB2 (non repeat pairings) - 1st hosts other 5th; 2nd hosts other 4th; stronger 3rd hosts other 3rd (5 winners advance, kept apart for 10-team Rd 2). KO 1st Rd - AB3 v AB4 (non repeat pairings) - 1st hosts other 5th; 2nd hosts other 4th; stronger 3rd hosts other 3rd (5 winners advance, kept apart for 10-team Rd 2). KO 2nd Rd - 5v5 (non repeat pairings) - 5 winners - 3 best records to SFs, 2 others to 1 QF - for SFs, avoid repeat pairings, if possible - otherwise, best v worst record. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2608 - 24/07/2019 02:14:48 2215553 Link 0 |
Your proposals tend to be convoluted. The format needs to be easy to follow.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 24/07/2019 10:36:15 2215635 Link 1 |
A proposal which retains regional divisions. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 24/07/2019 16:56:10 2215856 Link 0 |
A few years ago there was an idea to merge Ulster with Connacht and have an 11 team division made up of 7 and 4 teams respectively. Same with Munster and Leinster. Best 4 in their division from Ulster and Leinster and best 3 from Munster and Connacht would play their Provincial knockout stages. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 24/07/2019 17:50:13 2215883 Link 6 |
Have a round robin for the lower ranked teams as the Preliminary Round in the Championship with each team guaranteed three games and one qualifying. Rankings would be based on league postition. The winners of the prelim round would be in an open draw for the proviincial round proper Games are all played three weekends in a row in May. Top team qualifies to enter the first round of their provincial and if beaten can still use the qualifiers so they are guaranteed 5 championship games. The other three are OUT completely. They had three games and didn't make the cut. (If you wanted a second tier you could start it with the 15 eliminated teams) So it would look something like this: Connaught Sligo, Leitrim, London and NY - (might be problems with the NY leg but not insurmountable - The GAA/Connaught Council could cough up and have them over for a week to play two of the games) Ulster Antrim, Derry, Down, Armagh Leinster - Two Groups Wexford, Wicklow, Carlow, Offaly Longford, Louth, Laois and Westmeath. Munster Limerick, Waterford, Tipp and Cork (Cork is obviously an outlier but that's the way it goes) There are all sorts of possibilities with this structure. You could have the super 8s or go back to the pre super 8s system with one QF game per team. That's it - Problem Solved. They can rename Sam in my name when I'm gone :) Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 24/07/2019 19:31:38 2215926 Link 0 |
I have to ask how any of these format is going to change the standard of the bottom teams. Define what is going to be regarded as improvement, how it is going to be measured and what are the consequences when it fails like many changes before it for the last 100 years. I do appreciate that no one can predict an out come but if you do not have specific goals with time lines you are just stumbling around in the dark. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/07/2019 19:33:13 2215927 Link 0 |
That's a difficult question to answer. I don't think any format will drastically alter the fortunes of the weakest teams. They won't address the funding issues. I am trying to address the numerical imbalances between the provinces. I do think it will make the Championship more competitive.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 24/07/2019 20:24:35 2215957 Link 0 |
No you are basically looking at what will improve the lot (competitiveness) of the teams closest to the elites stopping at 12 approx teams. Number 12 won't compete in the next 100 years never mind number 33. The reality is the next 20 teams are so far out of their dept that Houdini could not help them compete with the top.Their standards are not close to the top clubs never mind the top counties. These formats are rubbish and anyone on here do not believe for a second that it will improve football in Kilkenny, Waterford , Carlow, Wexford etc. Again I say put the best players in these counties in position where they can succeed if you care about them. Otherwise tell it as it is, you do not give a sh-t about the bottom feeders.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/07/2019 21:02:27 2215981 Link 0 |