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He wants it expanded to 10?! Gooch and Brolly on TV yesterday said the super 8s was a failed concept because there are only 5 teams up to the standard.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 05/08/2019 09:38:04 2220986 Link 1 |
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Interesting you mention the World Cup. In the World Cup, the group stages are held at the START of the competition. There are dead rubbers, sure, but everyone knows the group stages are to separate the stronger teams from the weaker teams. The real excitement is to come in the knock-out stages. Where the GAA have messed up with this super 8s malarkey is to introduce the group stages THREE-QUARTERS WAY through the competition. So at a stage of a competition, last 8, where every match should be knock-out, do-or-die, coming to the boil, the GAA have managed to (almost) completely take the steam out of the championship. ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 05/08/2019 09:53:05 2220995 Link 1 |
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Well you could take the view that the championship is two competitions, the provincials and the AI series. The S8s are therefore at the beginning of the AI series and for qualification to the knockout stages, the semis. If we want to keep the provincials alive then it has to be this way. The alternative would be to scrap the provincials and have a complete round robin group stage phase followed by knockout a la CL or expand the S8s for the AI series to generate 8 qualifiers from them for QFs.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/08/2019 10:32:08 2221005 Link 2 |
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You can't be making fixtures very late in the day, based on who you think might meet each other, so that the last games might be meaningful. No other sport does this. That would be completely amateurish. If Tyrone wanted to avoid playing a provincial winner in their last game, then they needed to win their own province. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2033 - 05/08/2019 10:38:49 2221011 Link 0 |
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There's probably merits to a provincial group stage. It has worked in hurling and there are no calls for drastic changes in the hurling championship. The main discussion in the hurling championship is to allow a 6th team in Leinster. I've started a separate thread on the merits of a provincial group stage. There are a number of options that the GAA can take from what is working well with the hurling championship. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7819 - 05/08/2019 10:48:47 2221019 Link 0 |
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Regarding the general structure of the football championship, I don't think any sane person would disagree. As long as the current provincial championships exist as part of it, the system will always be unequal and unfair. My point was in relation to people complaining about round-robin groups and the fact that they can have dead-rubber games, asking that fixtures be made based on which team is likely to beat another. That's just nonsense. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2033 - 05/08/2019 11:38:37 2221045 Link 0 |
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Donegal had one bad day at the office and crash out. IamDonegal (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 05/08/2019 14:07:43 2221126 Link 0 |
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I suppose Donegal's destiny was always in Donegal's hands. It can never be a farce when that is the case. They just didn't play for long stretches on Sat. That plus not getting that win against Kerry cost them. One win from three games shouldn't be enough to qualify for an AI semi.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/08/2019 14:15:06 2221131 Link 3 |
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Joxer You know what: you are not wrong. I'm eating sour grapes here. Worse things in life but I'm just sickened to be out. It does seem harsh that we dont get a chance to rectify it but I'm probably going through the angry stage of grief lol IamDonegal (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 05/08/2019 14:31:30 2221136 Link 0 |
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A provincial group stage is the way to go. It's working in hurling and everyone is getting on with the game. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7819 - 05/08/2019 14:31:45 2221137 Link 0 |
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round robin in each province with the provincial finalist going into a straight knock out quarter final, easy. back door was brought in to give teams a second chance this gets them more games, more opportunity to raise their standards against better oppostion . Super 8's where brought in for what ? only to cash in from what I see , and that has not worked out with the attendances has it . ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 05/08/2019 14:35:55 2221139 Link 0 |
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Most worldwide competitions across all sports that operate on the basis of having a volume of non-ko games followed by ko games/playoffs will throw up that anomaly. In fact, it's so commonplace in worldwide sport, that it probably does not even qualify as an anomaly, but it's just another excuse for daft GAA argument about nothing. There is nothing to stop an American football NFL team with an 10-6 win-loss record beating a team with a 16-0 unbeaten record in the superbowl. It could happen, and did as recently as the 2007 season. That is the essence of league format, followed by ko format. It is what it is. If you lose a ko game, you're out. If you lose a non-ko game, you are not necessarily out. Mayo didn't do anything wrong here. They have not lost a ko championship game this season to date. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 05/08/2019 14:41:15 2221141 Link 0 |
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Yeah I've been there many times in the past. I could be there next Sat because sooner or later our tun will end and it's going to be the biggest crash in history. It never ends well for teams on a run. But look Donegal have a smashing team there. They didn't fire on Sat yet still stayed in touch. There's better days ahead for that team.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/08/2019 14:42:13 2221142 Link 2 |
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The problem I see with the 'super 8' is the physical toll, and the impact this is having on team's capacity to do themselves justice. Mayo looked knackered in Kerry, after going to the well so many times in 'the backdoor'. Donegal looked a bit jaded on Saturday night, after that epic with Kerry, which came on the back of their must win home opener with Meath. Now teams that have come through this grueling schedule of games to survive in 'last 4' have the farcical scenario of a 6/7 day turnaround to the semi, the biggest game of their seasons so far. Whatever other changes are made, a 2 week run-in to the semis in football & hurling should be built in imo. It's a shame that teams who make the last 4 might not be in a position to do themselves justice physically, due to a lack of recovery time in the game scheduling. They are not pros, but seem to be increasingly asked to behave and perform like pros. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 05/08/2019 14:55:45 2221155 Link 0 |
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The attendances were good in Killarney, Dr Hyde Park, Ballybofey, Navan, McHale Park and Omagh. I would lean towards a provincial group stage and the return of the traditional quarter-finals. The hurling format can be applied to the football championship with a few tweaks to suit the needs of football. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7819 - 05/08/2019 14:56:12 2221157 Link 0 |
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It works in hurling because there are two provinces with 5 teams each.
Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 05/08/2019 15:10:52 2221162 Link 0 |
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All these systems don't matter when the gap between Dublin and the rest is so large. Even the gap between the top six and the rest is bigger than ever as professionalism has taken hold. shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 187 - 05/08/2019 15:38:37 2221177 Link 0 |
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There has been debate about a 5, 6 or 8 team Leinster Hurling Championship. The football provinces can have 5, 6 or 8 team competitions as suits their needs and that of the All-Ireland Championship. Example: Munster - 1 group of 5 teams. Connaught - 1 group of 5 teams. Ulster - 2 groups of 4 teams. Leinster - 2 groups of 4 teams. Tier 2 - 1 group of 6 teams. (Tier 2 winner promoted to their provincial championship.) Qualifier Round 1 (6 teams): Ulster and Leinster semi-finals losers, Munster 3rd and Connaught 3rd. Qualifier Round 2 (8 teams): 4 provincial runners-up, 3 Q1 winners and Tier 2 winner. Quarter-finals (8 teams): 4 provincial winners and 4 Q2 winners. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7819 - 05/08/2019 15:49:28 2221181 Link 0 |
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Just put in another backdoor format or return to single-elimination. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 05/08/2019 15:56:12 2221184 Link 1 |
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Is there any other sport where for example take Tyrone this year where a team gets beaten, then ends up in knockout competition where 1 loss and they're gone, then back into another scenario where they can not only get beaten again but can effectively throw a game (again not a slight on Tyrone they're well within their rights to do what they did) and end up being rewarded with a semi final spot. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1326 - 05/08/2019 16:26:02 2221202 Link 0 |