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The Sunday Game - Awful Coverage

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Replying To KillingFields:  "That isnt indecisiveness. That's good refereeing
He took his time. Consulted with his assistant to see if they had seen anything different or had more to add to what he had seen."
Disagree.
The play was in front of the referee at that time. The two players involved were in front of him at the time. He saw the incident and called it.
This is known as looking for an out.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 20/08/2019 16:59:48    2227951

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "The referee was very indecisive on Sunday.
Why did the ref take so long to issue the red card ?
The ref saw the incident and blew his whistle.
Why check with the linesman the verify that what he saw was what he saw.
As a ref you call what you see instantly, reflex action.
Ref ignored the high stick to the helmet of the Kilkenny player.
He also blew the penalty cal which should have been awarded to Tipp. The player was fouled and he let play continue, without raising his arm which meant he considered that no foul had occurred. When the player was then dragged down in the penalty area he brought the puck out to where the original incident had taken place."
If a referee should call decisions instantly what is the purpose of having linesman and umpires, if he cannot consult them when they have a better view of incidents?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8004 - 20/08/2019 17:00:03    2227952

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "If a referee should call decisions instantly what is the purpose of having linesman and umpires, if he cannot consult them when they have a better view of incidents?"
A referee must call fouls instantly when the incident is in his line of vision. Their is no need to consult with any other officials on what you saw and what you called. If you need to verify that what you saw in front of you, was what you saw,then you do not belong with a whistle in your mouth.
Consult yes when things out of your line of vision are brought to your attention.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 20/08/2019 17:17:14    2227955

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "A referee must call fouls instantly when the incident is in his line of vision. Their is no need to consult with any other officials on what you saw and what you called. If you need to verify that what you saw in front of you, was what you saw,then you do not belong with a whistle in your mouth.
Consult yes when things out of your line of vision are brought to your attention."
If Owens had flashed the red card instantly I have no doubt there would be people on here criticising him for not consulting his linesman. In fairness I think he knew immediately it had to be red and I suspect he was looking for a reason to leave Hogan on the field. He had a good view of the incident but it's usually a good idea to get a second opinion. He would have been well aware that it was a big call and he wanted to be sure he got it right. I would call that good refereeing.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 604 - 20/08/2019 17:41:12    2227962

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Replying To midlands:  "If Owens had flashed the red card instantly I have no doubt there would be people on here criticising him for not consulting his linesman. In fairness I think he knew immediately it had to be red and I suspect he was looking for a reason to leave Hogan on the field. He had a good view of the incident but it's usually a good idea to get a second opinion. He would have been well aware that it was a big call and he wanted to be sure he got it right. I would call that good refereeing."
Incorrect.
You call what you see and apply the appropriate punishment. In his opinion it was a red card offense but was looking for an out. If he thought other than red he would not have consulted.
Bad refereeing.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 20/08/2019 17:46:23    2227965

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "A referee must call fouls instantly when the incident is in his line of vision. Their is no need to consult with any other officials on what you saw and what you called. If you need to verify that what you saw in front of you, was what you saw,then you do not belong with a whistle in your mouth.
Consult yes when things out of your line of vision are brought to your attention."
The biggest infraction, foul, injustice or whatever you want to call is not the referee's consulting with his officials. The greatest here is that a team and management group who are above reproach were chastised and disciplined. The rules are for other teams only. What else can be understood manager says he is not interested in players who will die for him, only interested in players who will kill for him.
There is an unwritten and carefully cultivated "license to assault " has been at play for decades and it needs to be addressed before serious injury results.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 20/08/2019 17:49:00    2227968

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Replying To PatOLogical:  "The biggest infraction, foul, injustice or whatever you want to call is not the referee's consulting with his officials. The greatest here is that a team and management group who are above reproach were chastised and disciplined. The rules are for other teams only. What else can be understood manager says he is not interested in players who will die for him, only interested in players who will kill for him.
There is an unwritten and carefully cultivated "license to assault " has been at play for decades and it needs to be addressed before serious injury results."
Would you give over. Every team in the country has players who get sent off. Human nature is the same everywhere and doesn't change with county boundaries. You've a 'pathological' hatred of Kilkenny.

Those type of phrases about killing are common in all sports don't take them literally.

For example Johnny Giles quoting a football manager 'would he kill his granny?'. For an uncompromising player. Bill Shankley 'football is not just a matter of life and death, it's more important than that'. Try Compromise Rules against the Aussies for some serious clothes line tackles etc.

Here's a nice Limerick/Clare hurling brawl for you.. https://youtu.be/4nOmN6G3XXY

Here's the Limerick county final 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic_QMP3YYDY

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 20/08/2019 18:07:10    2227975

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I could be wrong but to me it looks obvious that the refs are now getting spoken to in their ear pieces. Fully convinced Cleere was for the semi final (not referring to the hawkeye decisions).
Maybe I'm being paranoid but is there a chance that video evidence has come into play unofficially?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 20/08/2019 18:17:48    2227979

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I could be wrong but to me it looks obvious that the refs are now getting spoken to in their ear pieces. Fully convinced Cleere was for the semi final (not referring to the hawkeye decisions).
Maybe I'm being paranoid but is there a chance that video evidence has come into play unofficially?"
Well I don't think Owens or his linesman saw the incident on Sunday, but yet Hogan got the line after a long delay so draw your own conclusions from that. I also think that this is what Cody is getting at when he mentions Owens taking so long to make a decision

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 20/08/2019 18:22:47    2227981

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Replying To Heftydickonem:  "Well I don't think Owens or his linesman saw the incident on Sunday, but yet Hogan got the line after a long delay so draw your own conclusions from that. I also think that this is what Cody is getting at when he mentions Owens taking so long to make a decision"
I haven't watched the game back and currently I still dont think it was a red to be honest. I do think they seen the incident but there's something else going on upstairs in Croke Park in my opinion.
Cody however needs to take a leaf out of John Kiely's book in how to be gracious in defeat.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 20/08/2019 18:30:35    2227985

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The GAA need the VAR for the big games. Tipp would have got a penalty that was not awarded, no point in Michael Duignan going on about it is the ref. that needs the info. Congrats Tipp ye were by far the better team and I miss those great close battles we had together.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1738 - 20/08/2019 18:33:02    2227986

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Would you give over. Every team in the country has players who get sent off. Human nature is the same everywhere and doesn't change with county boundaries. You've a 'pathological' hatred of Kilkenny.

Those type of phrases about killing are common in all sports don't take them literally.

For example Johnny Giles quoting a football manager 'would he kill his granny?'. For an uncompromising player. Bill Shankley 'football is not just a matter of life and death, it's more important than that'. Try Compromise Rules against the Aussies for some serious clothes line tackles etc.

Here's a nice Limerick/Clare hurling brawl for you.. https://youtu.be/4nOmN6G3XXY

Here's the Limerick county final 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic_QMP3YYDY"
I'm over it and agree with you 100% that every team in the country has players sent off. Why then can' t was Richie dismayed (oustretched arms) and why was s Brian Cody "amazed " by referees decision and why are heroes of yesteryear trying to put an inocent spin on hat was essentially a mugging. RE rule highlighted at he beginning of the year that any strike or any attempt to strike at he head is a red card. Eddie Brennan whoudn' t have lasted 5 minutes in 07 All-Ireland ..jabbing a 19 year old Seamus Hickey through facemask and causing him to be stretched on the ground . ( Accidental? I think not.... ditto..Stephan Lucey)
What's amazing is that Fast Eddie is now pontificating about proper decorum on Sunday game and twitter. That' s what is amazing today.. that's the power of a squeaky wheel with access to a microphone. Eddie is very vocal to the point he may be campaigning..

"Get on with it".. Indeed!! I agree with you again.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 20/08/2019 18:54:10    2227993

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "The GAA need the VAR for the big games. Tipp would have got a penalty that was not awarded, no point in Michael Duignan going on about it is the ref. that needs the info. Congrats Tipp ye were by far the better team and I miss those great close battles we had together."
Thanks a lot Paddy. Those games were thoroughly enjoyable even if we came out on the wrong end of it in 2015 and 2017.

You boys will be back with a bang next year, there is nothing more certain than that.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 20/08/2019 19:01:27    2227996

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Replying To PatOLogical:  "I'm over it and agree with you 100% that every team in the country has players sent off. Why then can' t was Richie dismayed (oustretched arms) and why was s Brian Cody "amazed " by referees decision and why are heroes of yesteryear trying to put an inocent spin on hat was essentially a mugging. RE rule highlighted at he beginning of the year that any strike or any attempt to strike at he head is a red card. Eddie Brennan whoudn' t have lasted 5 minutes in 07 All-Ireland ..jabbing a 19 year old Seamus Hickey through facemask and causing him to be stretched on the ground . ( Accidental? I think not.... ditto..Stephan Lucey)
What's amazing is that Fast Eddie is now pontificating about proper decorum on Sunday game and twitter. That' s what is amazing today.. that's the power of a squeaky wheel with access to a microphone. Eddie is very vocal to the point he may be campaigning..

"Get on with it".. Indeed!! I agree with you again."
Jaysus we're back at 2007 again!

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 20/08/2019 19:55:11    2228009

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "A referee must call fouls instantly when the incident is in his line of vision. Their is no need to consult with any other officials on what you saw and what you called. If you need to verify that what you saw in front of you, was what you saw,then you do not belong with a whistle in your mouth.
Consult yes when things out of your line of vision are brought to your attention."
So a referee shouldn't consult with another official who has a better view of an incident and make a call based on his less informed view, otherwise he's a poor referee?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8004 - 20/08/2019 21:03:03    2228026

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "A referee must call fouls instantly when the incident is in his line of vision. Their is no need to consult with any other officials on what you saw and what you called. If you need to verify that what you saw in front of you, was what you saw,then you do not belong with a whistle in your mouth.
Consult yes when things out of your line of vision are brought to your attention."
I don't think too many will agree with this opinion

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 980 - 20/08/2019 23:38:08    2228049

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Replying To PatOLogical:  "I'm over it and agree with you 100% that every team in the country has players sent off. Why then can' t was Richie dismayed (oustretched arms) and why was s Brian Cody "amazed " by referees decision and why are heroes of yesteryear trying to put an inocent spin on hat was essentially a mugging. RE rule highlighted at he beginning of the year that any strike or any attempt to strike at he head is a red card. Eddie Brennan whoudn' t have lasted 5 minutes in 07 All-Ireland ..jabbing a 19 year old Seamus Hickey through facemask and causing him to be stretched on the ground . ( Accidental? I think not.... ditto..Stephan Lucey)
What's amazing is that Fast Eddie is now pontificating about proper decorum on Sunday game and twitter. That' s what is amazing today.. that's the power of a squeaky wheel with access to a microphone. Eddie is very vocal to the point he may be campaigning..

"Get on with it".. Indeed!! I agree with you again."
Stop embarrassing yourself and your county

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 980 - 20/08/2019 23:39:37    2228050

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Disagree.
The play was in front of the referee at that time. The two players involved were in front of him at the time. He saw the incident and called it.
This is known as looking for an out."
You have no appreciation for refereeing or referees then.
Watch nearly any sport a good official will take their time work with their team of officials to get to the best decision
Yes it was in front of referee at the time of the incident and he saw it but he took his time talked to his fellow official to see if they had a different view before making a very big decision that would have a lasting impact on the result.
A red card should always be a last resort.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3758 - 20/08/2019 23:44:08    2228052

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Replying To Gaa Fan:  "Incorrect.
You call what you see and apply the appropriate punishment. In his opinion it was a red card offense but was looking for an out. If he thought other than red he would not have consulted.
Bad refereeing."
Man what are you on about? Are you seriously suggesting that a referee shouldn't consult with his or her colleagues?

I'm no referee, but I would hazard a guess that on Page 1 of every 'How to be a Referee' book in pretty much any sport they would suggest consulting with your colleagues, if you can, when making a big call is good practice.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 21/08/2019 00:14:58    2228054

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I haven't watched the game back and currently I still dont think it was a red to be honest. I do think they seen the incident but there's something else going on upstairs in Croke Park in my opinion.
Cody however needs to take a leaf out of John Kiely's book in how to be gracious in defeat."
Possibly cillian Buckley's tackle in the limerick game on Nash where he went into a tackle leading with his elbow. Watching the AI programme you could see the refs reviewing games and tackles. Buckley got a yellow for striking and was lucky in my opinion that it was only yellow. possibly that was picked up on by the refs assessor.

over35hurler (Cork) - Posts: 36 - 21/08/2019 00:35:06    2228057

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