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Replying To KY4SAM2015: "No surprise to see mainly the dubs backing the gaa on this given the massive help they have received from them, including favorable scheduling of games in alternative venues anytime they are drawn away from home.
Am i right in saying that all season ticket holders can be accomated in Newbridge with a couple thousand extra seats available then this H +S bull the GAA are coming out with now is a load of rubbish.
Many smaller capacity stadiums have held games that had big demands for tickets in many sports, the integrity of competitions is more important then a supporters not being able to get in to see the game. Home advantage means home advantage doesn't matter the capacity of the ground.
Kildare are the first team to have the guts to stand up to the GAA in a proper way in a long time and of course they are 100% right. Wicklow tried to keep their game in Aughrim against the dubs but failed, this issue will be keep cropping up and fair play to Kildare for standing their ground.
If the GAA kick them out of the competition over this then they have crossed the line. Gaa fans in every county have a choice to stand up to corporate greed or stand up and fight them on this. If that mean a fan boycott on games or a strike so be it. If it harms Kerry or any other county let it be so. Would be the lesser of two evils IMO." I've seen one Dub on here dare have a different opinion to which he is entitled regardless where he is from. You lot down South are terribly rattled altogether!
lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 758 - 26/06/2018 15:44:03
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Replying To culmore: "what about the supporters here mainly the Mayo supporters who wont get to the game if its played in Newbridge. Thought the fans came first , they are the ones that pay the money to keep the organisation going" From one Mayo man to another, will ya stop!
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8432 - 26/06/2018 15:46:57
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Replying To essmac: "Mayo, with two key men out injured, are not at full strength. Kildare should be focussing on capitalising on that and trying to win the game, instead of this sideshow stuff. After all, Kildare to Croke Park is a lot handier than Mayo to Croke Park. And isn't the fact that Dublin play their 'home' games in Croke Park generally seen as an unfair advantage? Most managers are delighted to get an extra game in Croke Park. If I was Mayo, I'd smell fear here. And giving up a home game hasn't seemed to have been an issue for Cavan." Cavan's home ground is not available due to on-going works. I doubt Cavan would be happy playing Tyrone in Croke Park if Breffni Park was available. All these teams want to succeed and there is a big carrot down the line in the shape of the super 8's. Cavan identified Brewster Park but when asked/told were happy with Croke Park. Cavan are not in a position to annoy the CCCC after last week. I suspect your view is more to do with your county, as Tyrone will be very happy to play Cavan on a bigger pitch. It is patronising of you to say kildare are running scared. They had two challenging games in Owenbeg and Longford and this was probably the toughest draw they could have got, however I'm sure there was excitement in the county with the prospect of welcoming the second best team in the country over the last few years to Newbridge. The GAA need to learn from this and maybe gave each ground a catagory like other sports, then grading a match as Catagory A etc, which determines the kind of ground required to host an individual match. None of that is in place currently and no prior warning that Newbridge was unsuitable. I'm not sure Kildare will continue to protest or accept some compensation. But if Kildare wanted to, they could likely drag the GAA through the courts which would have an impact on the whole Championship.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 26/06/2018 15:47:55
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Replying To mhunicean_abu: "Fair point so on what grounds do you think they re-fixed the game given the following statement from Kildare
GAA
"we had no issue with adhering to the criteria for St Clonleth's Park as previously agreed with the National Facilities /Health and Safety committee"
Given that the above was previously agreed and they came out of the hat first what is the reason? Any barrister worth his salt would tear the CCCC to pieces" I'm making the point that as things stand its the CCC who decide, rightly or wrongly. Health and Safety approval is a minimum requirement whether a game can or can't be played. They, or the Gardai, are not the decision making body.
And, as it currently stands, the counties themselves do not decide where a game is or isn't played.
Very hypothetical (but topical) scenario since your good selves are down to play our good selves. So -
1. Leitrim vs Monaghan Carrick-on-Shannon (CCC say NO, pick an alternative)
2. Leitrim say - "its Hyde Park". Meets all standards, no issue there
3. CCC come back and say "sorry its - Semple Stadium, Thurles"
Ludicrous, but that's it, Nothing Leitrim (or Monaghan) can do about it. Ethically wrong perhaps. But that's how it works, at present.
As per previous posts - the right thing to do is get this more clearly defined through congress. It is currently flawed / contradictory. By the way, leaving it up to the counties as long as H&S / Gardai say its ok - might cause more problems.
My main point is - Kildare coming out all guns blazing quoting "the rules" (without reading it all) was very misjudged.
Solo_Run (Leitrim) - Posts: 219 - 26/06/2018 15:48:35
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Replying To jimbodub: "Well said here
Think O'Neill May have made another daft managerial call to back up quite a few to date.
"John Maughan feels that Kildare's negotiating tactics over the venue for their SF Qualifier against Mayo leave a lot to be desired.
The CCCC relieved the Lilywhites of home advantage and fixed Saturday night's game for Croke Park, with Kildare boss Cian O'Neill insisting that his team will not play anywhere else other than Newbridge.
"Kildare have backed themselves into a corner, this should have been dealt with behind closed doors. There should have been some sort of an arrangement, but coming out publicly as Cian O'Neill did yesterday and Kildare management did saying it is St Conleth's Park or nowhere, I don't think that is helpful and what we have now is a very, very entrenched situation," former Mayo manager Maughan stated RTE Radio.
"You will not hear a comment form Mayo because why would they get involved here but it is a position where nobody wants to be. It is very unfortunate."" I'd disagree with his comment about it not being helpful to be honest.
I don't think there's anything the county board or O'Neill could have said that would have been more helpful in all of this.
They aren't there to pander to Croke Park or a team with a big support.
They are there to represent Kildare GAA and at the moment they are doing it absolutely brilliantly.
For too decisions have been made behind closed doors with little rhyme or reason behind them (at least in public), I don't think it's too much for Kildare GAA be transparent in all of this.
If worst comes to worst I'm sure plenty of Kildare fans will happily sit out the 2019 season if it means holding firm on this. It's the players who'll suffer the most obviously but you'd imagine communication has been extended to the players after the county board said yesterday they have been in constant contact with management team.
At no point did the GAA highlight any minimum requirements or standards for stadia to be used in qualifier games (regardless of round) or the super 8's, and to be honest, this exact situation would have come around had Clare or Longford or Westmeath made the super 8's or drawn Mayo at home either. If Conleth's was good enough to host Mayo twice in the last four years - the latest only a few months ago then I don't see any reason why it's not good enough to host them now. How many season tickets could they have sold since the league game anyways?
Feargal McGill confirmed that the only issue here is the number of people who'd want to see the match - how many times have a county had to forfeit home advantage instead of just holding an all ticket game?
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 26/06/2018 15:48:49
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Im a hurlin man, this is probably the first time ive commented on a football issue. But I hope Kildare hold out. They have nothing to lose anyway as they will likely get bet in the game anyway. But they have the backing of 90% of the Gaa grassroots anyway.
As for Mayo, they should be ashamed of themselves saying nothing. They proved before and are proving again they are a heap of YesMen who bottle every all Ireland. If they had any bottle they would come out in support of playing in Newbridge.
clare_sparrow (Galway) - Posts: 441 - 26/06/2018 15:57:20
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What i dont like about this is everyone wants Kildare to make a stand, in fact there seems to be a bit pressure to do so, both on Kildare and Mayo.
But really no other county supporter has a right to play fast and loose with another counties fortunes. having a passionate opinion about it is all well and good when it doesn't have consequences for your own county and their isnt a threat of kicked out of the championship.
If Kildare dont fulfill the fixture in Croke Park they could be kicked out, everyone will say fair play, but it wont be remembered in two weeks time when the super 8's are played, or the semi or the final.
Arguably if anything this could suit the GAA if Kildare fall on their sword, lay down a marker and set a precedent before the super 8's about ultimate consequences because the same issue is going to happen again once they start.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4517 - 26/06/2018 16:05:19
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Replying To Solo_Run: " Replying To mhunicean_abu: "Fair point so on what grounds do you think they re-fixed the game given the following statement from Kildare
GAA
"we had no issue with adhering to the criteria for St Clonleth's Park as previously agreed with the National Facilities /Health and Safety committee"
Given that the above was previously agreed and they came out of the hat first what is the reason? Any barrister worth his salt would tear the CCCC to pieces" I'm making the point that as things stand its the CCC who decide, rightly or wrongly. Health and Safety approval is a minimum requirement whether a game can or can't be played. They, or the Gardai, are not the decision making body. And, as it currently stands, the counties themselves do not decide where a game is or isn't played. Very hypothetical (but topical) scenario since your good selves are down to play our good selves. So - 1. Leitrim vs Monaghan Carrick-on-Shannon (CCC say NO, pick an alternative) 2. Leitrim say - "its Hyde Park". Meets all standards, no issue there 3. CCC come back and say "sorry its - Semple Stadium, Thurles" Ludicrous, but that's it, Nothing Leitrim (or Monaghan) can do about it. Ethically wrong perhaps. But that's how it works, at present. As per previous posts - the right thing to do is get this more clearly defined through congress. It is currently flawed / contradictory. By the way, leaving it up to the counties as long as H&S / Gardai say its ok - might cause more problems. My main point is - Kildare coming out all guns blazing quoting "the rules" (without reading it all) was very misjudged."
Jesus!
Manstein (Roscommon) - Posts: 43 - 26/06/2018 16:07:04
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Replying To lilylanger: "I've seen one Dub on here dare have a different opinion to which he is entitled regardless where he is from. You lot down South are terribly rattled altogether!" "You're spot on"
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/06/2018 16:07:51
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Replying To TheUsername: "What i dont like about this is everyone wants Kildare to make a stand, in fact there seems to be a bit pressure to do so, both on Kildare and Mayo.
But really no other county supporter has a right to play fast and loose with another counties fortunes. having a passionate opinion about it is all well and good when it doesn't have consequences for your own county and their isnt a threat of kicked out of the championship.
If Kildare dont fulfill the fixture in Croke Park they could be kicked out, everyone will say fair play, but it wont be remembered in two weeks time when the super 8's are played, or the semi or the final.
Arguably if anything this could suit the GAA if Kildare fall on their sword, lay down a marker and set a precedent before the super 8's about ultimate consequences because the same issue is going to happen again once they start." Could see issues arising if Donegal and Tyrone are fixed for Ballybofey, there was a brave fight to get the Ulster first round to Clones in 2013 and I'd imagine there would be a bigger fight this time around if it worked out that way with the draws.
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 236 - 26/06/2018 16:16:06
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Solo_Run....someone has come on & told you that your interpretation of the rules does not apply for Round 3 qualifiers. Before slating Kildare again for not reading the rules properly don't you think it would be better for you to address his post & either confirm to him why he is wrong or else stop repeating what you are saying if you are wrong.
KildareKelly (Kildare) - Posts: 593 - 26/06/2018 16:17:13
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Replying To Solo_Run: "Not sure if this has been pointed out earlier on - haven't had time to go through full thread yet. So apologies if it has.
Kildare have made a complete mess of this by jumping the gun - using "the rules" to justify their position.
I actually believe the have a "just" position.
However "the rules" - like them or loathe them - state home venue advantage is subject to the approval of the CCC. So they are NOT automatically entitled to home advantage. So before going around shouting the odds about the rules they should have read all of them first not the bit(s) that suited them.
Now backed themselves into a corner whereby they will either look to have "buckled" or are out of the championship.
Only choice, play in Croke Park and try and use to their advantage. Headless stuff. Calmer heads were needed." in what way have Kildare jumped the gun?? the match is on next Saturday evening! at what stage would you expect them to take their stand?
As a mayo man Kildare are 100% within their rights to demand that they retain home advantage and as other posters have pointed out if Real Madrid draw cork city in the champions league the game goes ahead in Turners cross unless cork decide to move to a bigger venue for commercial reasons.
Finally this is a issue between Kildare and the white collar people in croke park. it does not and should not involve mayo but it most certainly should be involving the GPA who I personally think needs to flex their muscles here and come out strong on the side of Kildare on this one, but will they? I doubt it
mayomanic (Mayo) - Posts: 85 - 26/06/2018 16:18:45
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John maughan's comment was pathetic. Who backed who into a corner ???
It makes perfect sense why Mayo are still waiting to win an all Ireland if that's the attitude of a former manager. No backbone, no gumption, no balls. Sad.
handpassking (Galway) - Posts: 438 - 26/06/2018 16:26:26
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Replying To joeteor: "Could see issues arising if Donegal and Tyrone are fixed for Ballybofey, there was a brave fight to get the Ulster first round to Clones in 2013 and I'd imagine there would be a bigger fight this time around if it worked out that way with the draws." Its bound to happen.
Imagine Kildare beat Mayo and end up in a group with Dublin, three games in Croke Park.
*Runs.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4517 - 26/06/2018 16:27:22
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Replying To Manstein: " Replying To Solo_Run: "[quote=mhunicean_abu: "Fair point so on what grounds do you think they re-fixed the game given the following statement from Kildare
GAA
"we had no issue with adhering to the criteria for St Clonleth's Park as previously agreed with the National Facilities /Health and Safety committee"
Given that the above was previously agreed and they came out of the hat first what is the reason? Any barrister worth his salt would tear the CCCC to pieces" I'm making the point that as things stand its the CCC who decide, rightly or wrongly. Health and Safety approval is a minimum requirement whether a game can or can't be played. They, or the Gardai, are not the decision making body. And, as it currently stands, the counties themselves do not decide where a game is or isn't played. Very hypothetical (but topical) scenario since your good selves are down to play our good selves. So - 1. Leitrim vs Monaghan Carrick-on-Shannon (CCC say NO, pick an alternative) 2. Leitrim say - "its Hyde Park". Meets all standards, no issue there 3. CCC come back and say "sorry its - Semple Stadium, Thurles" Ludicrous, but that's it, Nothing Leitrim (or Monaghan) can do about it. Ethically wrong perhaps. But that's how it works, at present. As per previous posts - the right thing to do is get this more clearly defined through congress. It is currently flawed / contradictory. By the way, leaving it up to the counties as long as H&S / Gardai say its ok - might cause more problems. My main point is - Kildare coming out all guns blazing quoting "the rules" (without reading it all) was very misjudged."
Jesus!"]Think you should
Solo_Run (Leitrim) - Posts: 219 - 26/06/2018 16:27:41
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Extract from the GAAs own Rulebook on the qualifiers.
(2)
Venues
Home Venues shall be used in Rounds 1,
2 and 3 of the All-Ireland Qualifier Series,
with the first Team drawn having Home
Advantage.
exception:
A Division 3 or 4 team drawn against a
Division 1 or 2 team in the current year's
National Football League shall have Home
Advantage
Venues for Round 4 shall be determined
by the Central Competitions Control
Committee
Unless one is a total bumpkin Kildare have the law on their side.
End of
Manstein (Roscommon) - Posts: 43 - 26/06/2018 16:31:46
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Replying To TheUsername: "What i dont like about this is everyone wants Kildare to make a stand, in fact there seems to be a bit pressure to do so, both on Kildare and Mayo.
But really no other county supporter has a right to play fast and loose with another counties fortunes. having a passionate opinion about it is all well and good when it doesn't have consequences for your own county and their isnt a threat of kicked out of the championship.
If Kildare dont fulfill the fixture in Croke Park they could be kicked out, everyone will say fair play, but it wont be remembered in two weeks time when the super 8's are played, or the semi or the final.
Arguably if anything this could suit the GAA if Kildare fall on their sword, lay down a marker and set a precedent before the super 8's about ultimate consequences because the same issue is going to happen again once they start." To be honest this where i feel you may be wrong.
This may end up having major consequences. I would not be one bit surprised if this went further should Kildare end up being thrown out of the competition. Its my understanding that if Kildare dont give adequate notice of a forfeiture then the penalty is to be excluded in 2019. Will the GAA push ahead with that for example?
Already there is talk of the legal avenue being explored should the match go ahead in Croke Park with Kildare not turning up. There is in my opinion a real possibility of everything held up until the legal avenue is explored, we know county boards are not shy about going that route these days.
This may rumble on for a while imho.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1515 - 26/06/2018 16:32:39
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Replying To jimbodub: "I 100% agree with you
But we're not the ones making the call on health and safety grounds with probably multiple other factors lobbed in that we wouldn't be aware of..
I would like to see Kildare get home advantage but can also understand the thinking behind the GAAs decision making here.
It's all well and good having a strong opinion on this but perhaps if you were in the decision making end of things perhaps you'd have to ignore your own personal opinions and play the safe hand when you know all the factors ?
The GAA have got more and more health and safety conscious and this plays directly into that.
Do I want to see Kildare get home advantage = yes
Can I see the logic in the GAAs decision = yes" The Gardai and the H&S Authority don't have a safety issue with the game going ahead on Newbridge so that kills that argument. Unless the mighty suits have another safety authority that nobody has ever heard of supplying them with different information. Just spouting "health and safety " blandly to get your way isn't good enough. By that logic no All Ireland final would ever be played because more people than can get a ticket would want to get in to see it!! Stupid stuff. When's the last time you heard of a huge crowd of gobshites turning up at a ground with no tickets bursting their way in? People are a bit more clever than that. Then the GAA come out worrying about all the people who won't get in to see the game........Then put it on SKY. Not so worried about all the people who won't see it there. Amateur organisation alright.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 26/06/2018 16:34:08
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And this is an extract from the Rulbook regarding the Super 8s:
The order of fixtures shall be as follows:
Phase 1
Team 1 v Team 2 (venue: Croke Park)
Team 3 v Team 4 (venue: Croke Park)
Phase 2
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4 (venue: Home advantage for
Team 3 or 4)
Team 2 v Team 3 or 4 (venue: Home advantage for
Team 3 or 4)
Phase 3
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4 (venue: Home advantage for
Team 1)
Team 2 v Team 3 or 4 (venue: Home advantage for
Team 2)
The Central Competitions Committee shall make the
Draws for Phases 2 and 3.
note:
Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the
Central Competitions Control Committee and shall
meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/
Health and Safety Committee.
Note the CCCC HAVE the power to refix a super 8 on the grounds the venue is not suitable BUT they did NOT give themselves this power for Rounds 1,2 and 3 of qualifiers.
Manstein (Roscommon) - Posts: 43 - 26/06/2018 16:37:47
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Replying To tearintom: "To be honest this where i feel you may be wrong.
This may end up having major consequences. I would not be one bit surprised if this went further should Kildare end up being thrown out of the competition. Its my understanding that if Kildare dont give adequate notice of a forfeiture then the penalty is to be excluded in 2019. Will the GAA push ahead with that for example?
Already there is talk of the legal avenue being explored should the match go ahead in Croke Park with Kildare not turning up. There is in my opinion a real possibility of everything held up until the legal avenue is explored, we know county boards are not shy about going that route these days.
This may rumble on for a while imho." Cant see it really, its in nobody's interests., i fully expect a solution to be reached on this with some kind of sweetheart deal in place.
Kildare wont go head to head with the GAA in a legal sense IMHO, essentially it would be Kildare suing themselves. I also fail to see what law has been broken really, my opinion of course.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4517 - 26/06/2018 16:43:03
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