This kk team is far better than clare in the '90s. You named a few great clare players there but with kk its more or less 1-15. At the moment it is hard to see someone beating them.

Keane16 (Kerry) - Posts: 306 - 17/09/2008 22:35:03    102118

When it comes to travelling, you should prepare like a German and travel like an Australian. In hurling, look no further than Kilkenny, as they have raised the bar to dizzy heights.

Frankly, they should be ashamed of themselves; this is a nation famous for its reputation for begrudgery and producing gallant losers. Who do these cool cats think they are with their absolute dedication, meticulous preparation and faultless execution of the best field game in the world? The next thing you know the rest of us will have to stop moping about, griping and shirking and follow their example.

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 17/09/2008 23:38:48    102142

Listen, in 95 Clare had to beat Cork, Limerick (All-Ireland finalists in 94), Galway and Offaly (Winners 94). Who had kilkeeny ultimately to beat this year?? An over the hill Cork who are olympic athlethes, not hurlers and Waterford who were a shamnles from start to end (including getting lucky against Tipp). YE'RE NOT COMPARING LIKE WITH LIKE!!!

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 18/09/2008 08:59:55    102186

Hag he was the only one really I can think of. He was dropped though when he was 33. And that was more Cody falling out with him rather than him being ruthless. Carters was one of the best players in the league that year as a sub and should've been starting so I would discount Charlie Carter. Cody is not a ruthless manager...no way!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 18/09/2008 09:50:50    102216

I would concur with Banner_boy to be honest. The Kilkenny team of 08 would just not live with the Clare team of the 90s. Here's how I would compare the Kilkenny team to the 95 Clare team.

Goalkeeper:
Davy Fitzgerald - 10/10
PJ Ryan - 7/10

Right Corner Back:
Michael O'Halloran - 7/10
Michael Kavanagh - 9/10

Full Back:
Brian Lohan - 9/10
Noel Hickey - 8/10

Left Corner Back:
Frank Lohan - 9/10
Jackie Tyrell - 8/10

Right Half Back:
Liam Doyle - 8/10
Tommy Walsh - 9/10

Centre Back:
Seanie McMahon - 9/10
Brian Hogan - 7/10

Left Half Back:
Anthony Daly - 9/10
JJ Delaney - 9/10

Midfield:
Ollie Baker - 9/10
Cha FitzPatrick - 8/10

Midfield:
Jamisie O'Connor - 10/10
Derek Lyng - 8/10

Right Half Forward:
Fergie Tuohy - 8/10
Martin Comerford - 9/10

Centre Forward:
PJ O'Connell - 8/10
Richie Power - 8/10

Left Half Forward:
Fergal Hegarty - 7/10
Eoin Larkin - 9/10

Right Corner Forward:
Stephen McNamara - 7/10
Eddie Brennan - 9/10

Full-Forward:
Conor Clancy - 8/10
Henry Sheflin - 10/10

Left Corner Forward:
Sparrow O'Loughlin - 9/10
Aidan Fogarty - 7/10

TOTAL:
Clare 127/150
Kilkenny 125/150

Thats how I would see it anyway.

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 18/09/2008 10:12:39    102234

Doesn't matter if he's ruthless or not tiobraid, he's still won more All-Irelands as a manager than most
But if I'm reading between the lines right, I think you're pointing out that the media and others have simply gone to town with Kilkenny and are heaping praise on them - in some ways more than they deserve
In that regard, I would agree but you've just got to accept that the media are always going to go mental about the current champions of every sport. I have no problem with the Kerry football team but the way the media fawn over them is enough to make me sick. Likewise New Zealand in rugby and Man Utd in soccer.
Best to just bite the tongue and get on with it

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 18/09/2008 10:42:27    102269

That Clare team of the mid 90s wouldnt lace this kk teams boots

Bigern (Wexford) - Posts: 10 - 18/09/2008 10:48:43    102276

Goalkeeper:
Davy Fitzgerald - 10/10
PJ Ryan - 7/10

Right Corner Back:
Michael O'Halloran - 7/10
Michael Kavanagh - 9/10

Full Back:
Brian Lohan - 10/10
Noel Hickey - 9/10

Left Corner Back:
Frank Lohan - 9/10
Jackie Tyrell - 8/10

Right Half Back:
Liam Doyle - 9/10
Tommy Walsh - 10/10

Centre Back:
Seanie McMahon - 9/10
Brian Hogan - 8/10

Left Half Back:
Anthony Daly - 9/10
JJ Delaney - 9/10

Midfield:
Ollie Baker - 8/10
Cha FitzPatrick - 9/10

Midfield:
Jamisie O'Connor - 10/10
Derek Lyng - 8/10

Right Half Forward:
Fergie Tuohy - 8/10
Martin Comerford - 8/10

Centre Forward:
PJ O'Connell - 7/10
Richie Power - 8/10

Left Half Forward:
Fergal Hegarty - 7/10
Eoin Larkin - 9/10

Right Corner Forward:
Stephen McNamara - 8/10
Eddie Brennan - 9/10

Full-Forward:
Conor Clancy - 7/10
Henry Sheflin - 10/10

Left Corner Forward:
Sparrow O'Loughlin - 8/10
Aidan Fogarty - 7/10

TOTAL:
Clare 126/150
Kilkenny 128/150

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/09/2008 11:14:19    102310

Goalkeeper:
Davy Fitzgerald - 10/10
PJ Ryan - 7/10

Right Corner Back:
Michael O'Halloran - 7/10
Michael Kavanagh - 9/10

Full Back:
Brian Lohan - 10/10
Noel Hickey - 9/10

Left Corner Back:
Frank Lohan - 9/10
Jackie Tyrell - 8/10

Right Half Back:
Liam Doyle - 9/10
Tommy Walsh - 10/10

Centre Back:
Seanie McMahon - 9/10
Brian Hogan - 8/10

Left Half Back:
Anthony Daly - 9/10
JJ Delaney - 9/10

Midfield:
Ollie Baker - 8/10
Cha FitzPatrick - 9/10

Midfield:
Jamisie O'Connor - 10/10
Derek Lyng - 8/10

Right Half Forward:
Fergie Tuohy - 8/10
Martin Comerford - 8/10

Centre Forward:
PJ O'Connell - 7/10
Richie Power - 8/10

Left Half Forward:
Fergal Hegarty - 7/10
Eoin Larkin - 9/10

Right Corner Forward:
Stephen McNamara - 8/10
Eddie Brennan - 9/10

Full-Forward:
Conor Clancy - 7/10
Henry Sheflin - 10/10

Left Corner Forward:
Sparrow O'Loughlin - 8/10
Aidan Fogarty - 7/10

TOTAL:
Clare 126/150
Kilkenny 128/150


Loughnane took team management and training to a whole new level, Cody has taken it a step further.

loughnane 9/10
Cody 10/10

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/09/2008 11:17:52    102319

Excellent post loyal.

Holymoly....i'm not denying they are a great team and have a great manager. And they deserve the hype. But little things like saying how ruthless Cody is annoys me. Why come up with statements and not back them up...thats all i'm saying. Not running down KK in anyway. Just why do people make up stuff?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 18/09/2008 11:18:00    102321

lads..i just started this thread to see is there a better performance in kilkenny. that is the bench mark they have set themselves and next season when they play if they dont reach the heights of the all ireland final this year will they drop the heads with pressure from the media/supporters.

cant see it happening to be honest because of their professionalism but its a possibility.

p.s. i wasnt trying to compare the clare team of the 90's and this KK team. two different eras. preparation has been taken to a whole new level with dieticians, statiticians, phycologists, hypotists and what have ya. but it would be an interesting match up if the two teams in their prime were to play.

howshecuttin (Longford) - Posts: 376 - 18/09/2008 11:40:04    102346

I'd agree tiobraid. I don't think he's ruthless, more of a pragmatist. Sure Cody has said more or less the same before. When the media hear that he's dropped say Tyrrell or Tennyson or Power they paint him as ruthless in that because they are such big names and are proven quality players you would have to be ruthless to drop them - not in KK's case since they have such a depth of talent to choose from.
He simply picks players based on form and not on reputation. Most managers would do the same

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 18/09/2008 11:45:02    102353

The overall standard at the moment isn't great, and perhaps Kilkenny are being made to look even better than they really are?Kilkenny's winning margins this year were 9, 18, 19 and 23. That tells you that apart from a reasonably competitive game against Cork (which they won with a bit to spare) their level of opposition this year has been substandard. They might have beaten the Clare team of the 90s but certainly wouldn't have hammered them by 23 points.

Though of course you can only beat what's put in front of you and I think Kilkenny will continue to beat everyone for another couple of years. I don't think there's anyone to stop them in the near future. Cork need to rebuild, Tipp have a bit to go yet to be challenging and Galway are no nearer than ever. Take Joe Canning out of it and this is a poor enough Galway team if I'm honest about it.

aidangalway (Galway) - Posts: 648 - 18/09/2008 12:38:07    102416

You see the fact is a lot of people don't really understand or appreciate how good or more to the point how EFFECTIVE some of that Clare team were. Take Conor Clancy for example. A mercurial, skillful hurler he most certainly was not. But he was brilliant to win a high ball, off-load to better-scoring forwards, put pressure on full back line on clearances etc (He got 2 valuable points in 95 final too by de way in a low scoring game!!). Very similar to Martin Comeford yet nowhere near as highly rated for some reason. Michael O'Halloran was avery much unheralded corner back who was NEVER taken to the cleaners by ANYBODY. A much better player than Michael Kavanagh as he never fouled, becuase he was such a clever and skillful defender (Loughanne dedicates nearly half a whole chapter of his autobiography to him). Stephen McNamara was a brilliant corner forward who had a consistently excellent year in 1995, skinning all his markers in terms of posession and was often able to knock over 0-3/-0-4 in a big game.

These are just some of the examples. People sometimes illogically conclude that because they can't remmeber or don't have knowledge of someone that he can't have been a very good/effective player. Rubbish. That Clare team was unquestionably the greatest of all time and more than likely always will be.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 18/09/2008 13:59:51    102511

Banner_boy change your name to biased_boy.

I would give that maybe the clare backs might have been better but in fairness ye didn't have the forwards all-ireland 1995 score line 1-13 to 2-8 and 1-18 to 18 points in 97 not the sort of scoring you'd expect from the best team of all time. Think highest score ye got around that era was 1-19 against cork in 97. Yer highest score aginst the top team in 95 was 3-12 against galway how do that compare to kilkenny??

If clare had the forward line to match the back and midfield yes they would have been probably the best team of all time!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/09/2008 16:46:41    102666

Kilkenny would beat that Clare team by 8-10 points. That clare team won an all-ireland on fitness alone (as we did the following year). You watch the games of the mid 90's and then watch a game this year. The pace of the game is up by 20% i reckon. Not a hope for any team in the 90's.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 18/09/2008 16:56:13    102673