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Replying To hurler101: " Replying To cragask: "Fairly obvious what went on Saturday night lads. We hurled brilliantly to get ourselves in front,they stayed in the game using there unmatched ability to manufacture frees, we missed oppertunities to bury them,there fresh legs brought the mimpetus and then there ability to score there frees and our inability to consistenly nail ours killed us. Also I will say this game was lost on the line. How or why Dee O Keeffe stayed on the pitch was beyond me. It was obvious 5 minutes into the second half that he hadn't the energy to track Ritchie Leahy when he was dropping back for puck outs, leahy went on to score 2/3 points which won them the game. Why was eoin moore or deveaurax brought onto him? Happened right in front of our line yet we waited til the damage was done before changing it!!
We should of brought on fresh legs when we went 7/8 up early in the second half to kill the game then when we did make changes we brought off our most lively and energitc forward in david dunne and left on kevin foley and nolan who both looked dead on there feet. Why wasn't Dunbar brought on? His pace would of caused havoc in the conditions.
Yes i agree about the referrering. KK are the most cynical team in the country and its an obvious fact that teams are simply not allowed tackle TJ Reid without the kk fans throwing a tantrum. There ability to manufacture frees,convert them and get away with systematic fouling whilst uintimaditing referrees is unrivalled in irish sport. Our naievity and wastefullness is our biggest flaw.
Things we learned again sat night;
1) we have to stay short with puck outs. We dont have any forwards capable of winning clean possession consistently. Chin was superb ball winner one time but seems to have forgotten how to,mcdonald is the most fouled forward in ireland but gets no protection. This wex team is crying out for afully fit jack guiney,say what you like about the chap but id of sent him an sos on sat night.
2) O keffee struggled defensively again.
3) Chin needs to play centrally im sick to death saying it.
4) our forward line needs either more pace/movement or a forward like jack guiney who can play at 11, win and distubute possession.
5) i Thought we defended well overally. Firman done well until donnellys fresh legs caused him bother. Despite others having a go ,o hanlon limited Tj reid quite well. Reid won rucks and stuff but didn't exatcly run riot as others appear to think.
6) I know we went 8 up using our sweeper but I am 100% if we were 15 v 15 against kk we would beat them. We again showed them too much respect. We have better hurlers than them full stop. By playing a sweeper were allowing them nulify our best forward and tighten up there weakesrt position at 3.Conor Mc 1 v 1 with Padraig Walsh would have resulted in the umpire having a sore arm. WE should of gone in for the kill saturday night and I dont care what anybody thinks.
We are very close to being a seriously hard team to beat. Few adustments, a week/10 days off training and we go at it again. Get everybody back and push on.Were 3 games from an all ireland final,theres's not a team out there that I think is any better than us bar Galway who are a step ahead of everyone. I believe limerick have peaked and although hurling brilliantly may well blow themselves out by the time august comes and we've proven we can beat clare and cork... Our season starts now in my eyes." I completely agree about O Keefe. In no mans land for puck outs, either go all the way with leahy or hold the 40. He did neither. Couple of issues with what your saying though. 1. What evidence is there that Jack Guiney would improve our team?? 2. Conor Mac is not our best forward by a long shot, if he learned to pass he could be. 3. MOH got a run around. I watched the game back, Tj Reid set up 5 points in the 2nd half!! He got on an amount of ball and simply ran the show. 4. Firman got skinned by Blanchfield. Got moved off him and then conceded 2 points off Donnelly. If that was Donahoe we would want him dropped. Firman is young and a good player so id stick with him but he didnt do well in the second half! 5. We didnt show them too much respect, we showed them too little by not killing the game. Its as if we didnt expect them to come back at us. We dropped our intensity, made poor decisions and what really bugged me is nobody stepped up in the 2nd half. The biggest thing learned over the past few weeks is that we have a thin squad. Davy clearly has no faith in a lot of our bench as he hasnt put them in at all even when we were hanging on sat evening."
2) Conor mc is the best forward we've produced in a generation. Has everything needed to be top class. He is a player being drowned in our system.Eaten breed is soon forgotten and Mc is sufferering from the extrordinary standards he set himself. 1 v 1 he is as good as any forward in the country.
3) bit harsh on matthew. Yes reid won a few rucks and laid off ball but if you were told before the game reid would only score 0-1 from play and have 7/8 possessions, would you not have been satisfied? Matthew limited reid, contained him and stuck to his task manfully although a few times particularly in the first half i thought he struggled.
4) Firman had a good first half hence his man being taken off ( Scanlon), blanchfield /donnellys fresh legs won some ball off him but ive been impressed with him overal.
5) by setting up with a sweeper we should them too much respect. There was no need to play anextra man against a forward unit that managed a grand total of what 3/4 points from play intheir last championship game. There the most limited of all the teams left, we should of backed ourselves and took them on. We should of made changes when we were in front ,had momentum. Few fresh legs including O keeffe and we would of won that game comfortably.
I think our squad is better than what Davy has utilised. Would Moore, deveraux,Mc Govern, Dunne,Tomkins, Donohoe realy weaken what started saturday night? I dont think its a case of not rating our subs with davy,its more of a preferance/loyality for certain players who have had poor years.
I think it was more mental fatigue than physical with us, 1 game a week shouldnt of kiled anybody. WE missed the boat in the offaly game,we could of made 6/7 changes that night ,rotated the squad and won comfortably ,we didn't and then lads energy did drop but with better mngt the impact on performance would of been minimal. We made the wrong changes in the wrong positions and took off/ brought on the wrong players saturday night. A game we threw away.
cragask (Wexford) - Posts: 892 - 12/06/2018 17:26:00
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I'd prefer a more dignified, adult reaction to a narrow loss when leading by a big margin during the game.
Blaming the ref is easy but what about the players and management. Surely it's a bit of a cop out and is very ungracious.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 639 - 12/06/2018 17:42:29
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Replying To cragask: " Replying To hurler101: "[quote=cragask: "Fairly obvious what went on Saturday night lads. We hurled brilliantly to get ourselves in front,they stayed in the game using there unmatched ability to manufacture frees, we missed oppertunities to bury them,there fresh legs brought the mimpetus and then there ability to score there frees and our inability to consistenly nail ours killed us. Also I will say this game was lost on the line. How or why Dee O Keeffe stayed on the pitch was beyond me. It was obvious 5 minutes into the second half that he hadn't the energy to track Ritchie Leahy when he was dropping back for puck outs, leahy went on to score 2/3 points which won them the game. Why was eoin moore or deveaurax brought onto him? Happened right in front of our line yet we waited til the damage was done before changing it!!
We should of brought on fresh legs when we went 7/8 up early in the second half to kill the game then when we did make changes we brought off our most lively and energitc forward in david dunne and left on kevin foley and nolan who both looked dead on there feet. Why wasn't Dunbar brought on? His pace would of caused havoc in the conditions.
Yes i agree about the referrering. KK are the most cynical team in the country and its an obvious fact that teams are simply not allowed tackle TJ Reid without the kk fans throwing a tantrum. There ability to manufacture frees,convert them and get away with systematic fouling whilst uintimaditing referrees is unrivalled in irish sport. Our naievity and wastefullness is our biggest flaw.
Things we learned again sat night;
1) we have to stay short with puck outs. We dont have any forwards capable of winning clean possession consistently. Chin was superb ball winner one time but seems to have forgotten how to,mcdonald is the most fouled forward in ireland but gets no protection. This wex team is crying out for afully fit jack guiney,say what you like about the chap but id of sent him an sos on sat night.
2) O keffee struggled defensively again.
3) Chin needs to play centrally im sick to death saying it.
4) our forward line needs either more pace/movement or a forward like jack guiney who can play at 11, win and distubute possession.
5) i Thought we defended well overally. Firman done well until donnellys fresh legs caused him bother. Despite others having a go ,o hanlon limited Tj reid quite well. Reid won rucks and stuff but didn't exatcly run riot as others appear to think.
6) I know we went 8 up using our sweeper but I am 100% if we were 15 v 15 against kk we would beat them. We again showed them too much respect. We have better hurlers than them full stop. By playing a sweeper were allowing them nulify our best forward and tighten up there weakesrt position at 3.Conor Mc 1 v 1 with Padraig Walsh would have resulted in the umpire having a sore arm. WE should of gone in for the kill saturday night and I dont care what anybody thinks.
We are very close to being a seriously hard team to beat. Few adustments, a week/10 days off training and we go at it again. Get everybody back and push on.Were 3 games from an all ireland final,theres's not a team out there that I think is any better than us bar Galway who are a step ahead of everyone. I believe limerick have peaked and although hurling brilliantly may well blow themselves out by the time august comes and we've proven we can beat clare and cork... Our season starts now in my eyes." I completely agree about O Keefe. In no mans land for puck outs, either go all the way with leahy or hold the 40. He did neither. Couple of issues with what your saying though. 1. What evidence is there that Jack Guiney would improve our team?? 2. Conor Mac is not our best forward by a long shot, if he learned to pass he could be. 3. MOH got a run around. I watched the game back, Tj Reid set up 5 points in the 2nd half!! He got on an amount of ball and simply ran the show. 4. Firman got skinned by Blanchfield. Got moved off him and then conceded 2 points off Donnelly. If that was Donahoe we would want him dropped. Firman is young and a good player so id stick with him but he didnt do well in the second half! 5. We didnt show them too much respect, we showed them too little by not killing the game. Its as if we didnt expect them to come back at us. We dropped our intensity, made poor decisions and what really bugged me is nobody stepped up in the 2nd half. The biggest thing learned over the past few weeks is that we have a thin squad. Davy clearly has no faith in a lot of our bench as he hasnt put them in at all even when we were hanging on sat evening."
2) Conor mc is the best forward we've produced in a generation. Has everything needed to be top class. He is a player being drowned in our system.Eaten breed is soon forgotten and Mc is sufferering from the extrordinary standards he set himself. 1 v 1 he is as good as any forward in the country.
3) bit harsh on matthew. Yes reid won a few rucks and laid off ball but if you were told before the game reid would only score 0-1 from play and have 7/8 possessions, would you not have been satisfied? Matthew limited reid, contained him and stuck to his task manfully although a few times particularly in the first half i thought he struggled.
4) Firman had a good first half hence his man being taken off ( Scanlon), blanchfield /donnellys fresh legs won some ball off him but ive been impressed with him overal.
5) by setting up with a sweeper we should them too much respect. There was no need to play anextra man against a forward unit that managed a grand total of what 3/4 points from play intheir last championship game. There the most limited of all the teams left, we should of backed ourselves and took them on. We should of made changes when we were in front ,had momentum. Few fresh legs including O keeffe and we would of won that game comfortably.
I think our squad is better than what Davy has utilised. Would Moore, deveraux,Mc Govern, Dunne,Tomkins, Donohoe realy weaken what started saturday night? I dont think its a case of not rating our subs with davy,its more of a preferance/loyality for certain players who have had poor years.
I think it was more mental fatigue than physical with us, 1 game a week shouldnt of kiled anybody. WE missed the boat in the offaly game,we could of made 6/7 changes that night ,rotated the squad and won comfortably ,we didn't and then lads energy did drop but with better mngt the impact on performance would of been minimal. We made the wrong changes in the wrong positions and took off/ brought on the wrong players saturday night. A game we threw away."]What ball did Guiney win over the years hes been around?? He is this great player who didnt have to be great at all. Poor Paul Morris gets given out about wholesale, yet he has been there good and bad days for 8/9 years. Give me him anyday!
Mac has almost got what it takes to be top class. He is missing a key component of top players. Its his decision making, compare him to TJ, who almost always does the right thing with the ball. Blame the system all you want but what I am looking at is what Mac does when he gets the ball, I know he will be on less than usual due to sweeper.
Rory O Connor is our best forward by a mile. Angles of running, gets on the front foot to shoot, shoots at the right time.
Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49
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Replying To gahfan: "I'd prefer a more dignified, adult reaction to a narrow loss when leading by a big margin during the game.
Blaming the ref is easy but what about the players and management. Surely it's a bit of a cop out and is very ungracious." I think his comments in the paper are a bit embarrasing. I dont have a problem having a cut at a ref as long as you sight other reasons that are within your control. That would be closer to honesty than whinging.
The really embarrasing thing for Davy is in the People paper giving out about not getting frees inside the opposing 45. We dont have players in there, we are at a numerical disadvantage and the ball spends no time in there. We usually come back out to shoot!! This is his game plan so he should understand that we will get less frees in there!!
Im not giving out about the way we play, to be clear. Im saying he should understand that not getting frees inside the 45 is a consequence of our style before he starts whinging. He obviously read a stat and got emotional without thinking!!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 12/06/2018 19:21:28
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The legs of the boys that have played non stop sense Walsh cup went in last two games ( big effort in first half v kk aside). Kev foley, d o keefe etc ...we are a good team, possible lacking bit depth in squad to win all ireland.?However think James Breen, Andrew shore, Ian byrne, Jack guiney and fully fit mcgovern would improve things a lot. But no point taking about who not there. Sat night was sicking, because I think we are a better team then kk. Silly mistakes, wrong discussion making, poor ref at time( although he didn't lose match on us) and few strange decisions or lack of action from the line. Why as people said already, did we keep pucking the ball down the same side in the second half, also I would have change Ryan and hanlon and slow moving firman when blanchfield came on. Everything has been covered already on here about match really. Break should help the lads recharge and hopefully no injuries and i think we could make a semi final spot at least.
hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 1150 - 12/06/2018 21:05:21
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Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 422 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49 2110685
our scoring rate is higher than 5 years ago,really?have you scores to back that up?we now have a forward in rory o connor who has the wow factor we did not have 5 years ago.5 years ago conor mc was a nipper of 18-19,an incredible prospect,has he blossomed?i would say no.is chin a forward?no in my view.
moaning about the ref is a cop out,and it is always a non-hurling problem with davy.it was clear banchfield was taking firman (who is a good prospect) to the cleaners,why didnt he change it?why didnt he bring eoin moore on?why was a tiring dee o keefe left on leahy?
what was working in the first half wasnt in the second,yet we had no plan b other than shut the shop?
hurling is now a 20-25 man game,especially given all the matches,yet we have about 3-4 subs max?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 13/06/2018 08:46:26
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Replying To perfect10: "Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 422 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49 2110685
our scoring rate is higher than 5 years ago,really?have you scores to back that up?we now have a forward in rory o connor who has the wow factor we did not have 5 years ago.5 years ago conor mc was a nipper of 18-19,an incredible prospect,has he blossomed?i would say no.is chin a forward?no in my view.
moaning about the ref is a cop out,and it is always a non-hurling problem with davy.it was clear banchfield was taking firman (who is a good prospect) to the cleaners,why didnt he change it?why didnt he bring eoin moore on?why was a tiring dee o keefe left on leahy?
what was working in the first half wasnt in the second,yet we had no plan b other than shut the shop?
hurling is now a 20-25 man game,especially given all the matches,yet we have about 3-4 subs max?" It sounds like you want Davy out? He is an All Ireland winning coach and we are lucky to have him. When Dunne left the names touted around would leave you feeling very underwhelmed but he has done a terrific job with let's face it an average bunch of players except for one or two. The reason for a lack of a bench comes from years of neglect at underage and this is the first crop to come through with a plan put forward by Griffin and Co about 10 years ago and with hurling 365 in the schools, the future is very bright. Good Counsel won a juvenile Leinster beating St Kierans with most of the panel coming from the New Ross area which has struggled in the last decade regards hurling.
If Davy does go at the end of the year I'd love to see Detek McGrath get the job. Don't think he will take it as he probably want a well earned break but I think he would be perfect for us.
Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 255 - 13/06/2018 11:23:31
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i dont want davy out at all,he has done a great job and i want him to stay on,but it has always been somebody or something else wrong with davy,cop on and be a man about things.
i am sure mick ryan had a decision or two went again him on sunday,did you see him moaning about the ref?
mistakes are in every walk of life,change the rhetoric.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 13/06/2018 14:12:31
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Replying To perfect10: "i dont want davy out at all,he has done a great job and i want him to stay on,but it has always been somebody or something else wrong with davy,cop on and be a man about things.
i am sure mick ryan had a decision or two went again him on sunday,did you see him moaning about the ref?
mistakes are in every walk of life,change the rhetoric." i agree davy has always to blame someone when his team looses....bk in 2015 when limerick beat clare davy blamed the ref for not enough added time and not getting frees and also in the drawn 2013 all ireland he said clare had the game won a few times but kept been brought bk into it by the ref......i watched the game as a neutral sat night and didnt think it was the refs fault the wexford lost.....kilkenny came roaring bk into the game and just couldnt handle tj reid who was unreal......
munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1149 - 13/06/2018 14:27:00
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This is a brilliant article on how our lack of a freetaker haunted us in Nowlan Park the other evening.
Kilkenny v Wexford: Battle of Freetakers
icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2581 - 13/06/2018 14:57:30
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Replying To Finchfurlong996: " Replying To perfect10: "Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 422 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49 2110685
our scoring rate is higher than 5 years ago,really?have you scores to back that up?we now have a forward in rory o connor who has the wow factor we did not have 5 years ago.5 years ago conor mc was a nipper of 18-19,an incredible prospect,has he blossomed?i would say no.is chin a forward?no in my view.
moaning about the ref is a cop out,and it is always a non-hurling problem with davy.it was clear banchfield was taking firman (who is a good prospect) to the cleaners,why didnt he change it?why didnt he bring eoin moore on?why was a tiring dee o keefe left on leahy?
what was working in the first half wasnt in the second,yet we had no plan b other than shut the shop?
hurling is now a 20-25 man game,especially given all the matches,yet we have about 3-4 subs max?" It sounds like you want Davy out? He is an All Ireland winning coach and we are lucky to have him. When Dunne left the names touted around would leave you feeling very underwhelmed but he has done a terrific job with let's face it an average bunch of players except for one or two. The reason for a lack of a bench comes from years of neglect at underage and this is the first crop to come through with a plan put forward by Griffin and Co about 10 years ago and with hurling 365 in the schools, the future is very bright. Good Counsel won a juvenile Leinster beating St Kierans with most of the panel coming from the New Ross area which has struggled in the last decade regards hurling. If Davy does go at the end of the year I'd love to see Detek McGrath get the job. Don't think he will take it as he probably want a well earned break but I think he would be perfect for us."
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 13/06/2018 16:51:11
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Replying To hurlorhurley: " Replying To Finchfurlong996: "[quote=perfect10: "Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 422 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49 2110685
our scoring rate is higher than 5 years ago,really?have you scores to back that up?we now have a forward in rory o connor who has the wow factor we did not have 5 years ago.5 years ago conor mc was a nipper of 18-19,an incredible prospect,has he blossomed?i would say no.is chin a forward?no in my view.
moaning about the ref is a cop out,and it is always a non-hurling problem with davy.it was clear banchfield was taking firman (who is a good prospect) to the cleaners,why didnt he change it?why didnt he bring eoin moore on?why was a tiring dee o keefe left on leahy?
what was working in the first half wasnt in the second,yet we had no plan b other than shut the shop?
hurling is now a 20-25 man game,especially given all the matches,yet we have about 3-4 subs max?" It sounds like you want Davy out? He is an All Ireland winning coach and we are lucky to have him. When Dunne left the names touted around would leave you feeling very underwhelmed but he has done a terrific job with let's face it an average bunch of players except for one or two. The reason for a lack of a bench comes from years of neglect at underage and this is the first crop to come through with a plan put forward by Griffin and Co about 10 years ago and with hurling 365 in the schools, the future is very bright. Good Counsel won a juvenile Leinster beating St Kierans with most of the panel coming from the New Ross area which has struggled in the last decade regards hurling. If Davy does go at the end of the year I'd love to see Detek McGrath get the job. Don't think he will take it as he probably want a well earned break but I think he would be perfect for us."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16772 - 13/06/2018 17:12:16
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Replying To hurler101: " Replying To cragask: "[quote=hurler101: "[quote=cragask: "Fairly obvious what went on Saturday night lads. We hurled brilliantly to get ourselves in front,they stayed in the game using there unmatched ability to manufacture frees, we missed oppertunities to bury them,there fresh legs brought the mimpetus and then there ability to score there frees and our inability to consistenly nail ours killed us. Also I will say this game was lost on the line. How or why Dee O Keeffe stayed on the pitch was beyond me. It was obvious 5 minutes into the second half that he hadn't the energy to track Ritchie Leahy when he was dropping back for puck outs, leahy went on to score 2/3 points which won them the game. Why was eoin moore or deveaurax brought onto him? Happened right in front of our line yet we waited til the damage was done before changing it!!
We should of brought on fresh legs when we went 7/8 up early in the second half to kill the game then when we did make changes we brought off our most lively and energitc forward in david dunne and left on kevin foley and nolan who both looked dead on there feet. Why wasn't Dunbar brought on? His pace would of caused havoc in the conditions.
Yes i agree about the referrering. KK are the most cynical team in the country and its an obvious fact that teams are simply not allowed tackle TJ Reid without the kk fans throwing a tantrum. There ability to manufacture frees,convert them and get away with systematic fouling whilst uintimaditing referrees is unrivalled in irish sport. Our naievity and wastefullness is our biggest flaw.
Things we learned again sat night;
1) we have to stay short with puck outs. We dont have any forwards capable of winning clean possession consistently. Chin was superb ball winner one time but seems to have forgotten how to,mcdonald is the most fouled forward in ireland but gets no protection. This wex team is crying out for afully fit jack guiney,say what you like about the chap but id of sent him an sos on sat night.
2) O keffee struggled defensively again.
3) Chin needs to play centrally im sick to death saying it.
4) our forward line needs either more pace/movement or a forward like jack guiney who can play at 11, win and distubute possession.
5) i Thought we defended well overally. Firman done well until donnellys fresh legs caused him bother. Despite others having a go ,o hanlon limited Tj reid quite well. Reid won rucks and stuff but didn't exatcly run riot as others appear to think.
6) I know we went 8 up using our sweeper but I am 100% if we were 15 v 15 against kk we would beat them. We again showed them too much respect. We have better hurlers than them full stop. By playing a sweeper were allowing them nulify our best forward and tighten up there weakesrt position at 3.Conor Mc 1 v 1 with Padraig Walsh would have resulted in the umpire having a sore arm. WE should of gone in for the kill saturday night and I dont care what anybody thinks.
We are very close to being a seriously hard team to beat. Few adustments, a week/10 days off training and we go at it again. Get everybody back and push on.Were 3 games from an all ireland final,theres's not a team out there that I think is any better than us bar Galway who are a step ahead of everyone. I believe limerick have peaked and although hurling brilliantly may well blow themselves out by the time august comes and we've proven we can beat clare and cork... Our season starts now in my eyes." I completely agree about O Keefe. In no mans land for puck outs, either go all the way with leahy or hold the 40. He did neither. Couple of issues with what your saying though. 1. What evidence is there that Jack Guiney would improve our team?? 2. Conor Mac is not our best forward by a long shot, if he learned to pass he could be. 3. MOH got a run around. I watched the game back, Tj Reid set up 5 points in the 2nd half!! He got on an amount of ball and simply ran the show. 4. Firman got skinned by Blanchfield. Got moved off him and then conceded 2 points off Donnelly. If that was Donahoe we would want him dropped. Firman is young and a good player so id stick with him but he didnt do well in the second half! 5. We didnt show them too much respect, we showed them too little by not killing the game. Its as if we didnt expect them to come back at us. We dropped our intensity, made poor decisions and what really bugged me is nobody stepped up in the 2nd half. The biggest thing learned over the past few weeks is that we have a thin squad. Davy clearly has no faith in a lot of our bench as he hasnt put them in at all even when we were hanging on sat evening."
2) Conor mc is the best forward we've produced in a generation. Has everything needed to be top class. He is a player being drowned in our system.Eaten breed is soon forgotten and Mc is sufferering from the extrordinary standards he set himself. 1 v 1 he is as good as any forward in the country.
3) bit harsh on matthew. Yes reid won a few rucks and laid off ball but if you were told before the game reid would only score 0-1 from play and have 7/8 possessions, would you not have been satisfied? Matthew limited reid, contained him and stuck to his task manfully although a few times particularly in the first half i thought he struggled.
4) Firman had a good first half hence his man being taken off ( Scanlon), blanchfield /donnellys fresh legs won some ball off him but ive been impressed with him overal.
5) by setting up with a sweeper we should them too much respect. There was no need to play anextra man against a forward unit that managed a grand total of what 3/4 points from play intheir last championship game. There the most limited of all the teams left, we should of backed ourselves and took them on. We should of made changes when we were in front ,had momentum. Few fresh legs including O keeffe and we would of won that game comfortably.
I think our squad is better than what Davy has utilised. Would Moore, deveraux,Mc Govern, Dunne,Tomkins, Donohoe realy weaken what started saturday night? I dont think its a case of not rating our subs with davy,its more of a preferance/loyality for certain players who have had poor years.
I think it was more mental fatigue than physical with us, 1 game a week shouldnt of kiled anybody. WE missed the boat in the offaly game,we could of made 6/7 changes that night ,rotated the squad and won comfortably ,we didn't and then lads energy did drop but with better mngt the impact on performance would of been minimal. We made the wrong changes in the wrong positions and took off/ brought on the wrong players saturday night. A game we threw away."]What ball did Guiney win over the years hes been around?? He is this great player who didnt have to be great at all. Poor Paul Morris gets given out about wholesale, yet he has been there good and bad days for 8/9 years. Give me him anyday!
Mac has almost got what it takes to be top class. He is missing a key component of top players. Its his decision making, compare him to TJ, who almost always does the right thing with the ball. Blame the system all you want but what I am looking at is what Mac does when he gets the ball, I know he will be on less than usual due to sweeper.
Rory O Connor is our best forward by a mile. Angles of running, gets on the front foot to shoot, shoots at the right time.
Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!"]I certainly dont think our sweeper sysyem is holding us back at all. I believe davy has revolounised the tactical element of hurling but its pretty obvious that when you depend on scoring from distance, attacking from deep that this will inevitably have a negative impact on your inside forwards. I suggested 15 v 15 sat night simply because we have a far more talented team than kk and there forwards havent exatly been shooting the lights out. We had nothing to fear sat night and by setting up with the sweeper we continue to allow inferior teams double mark our biggest goal threat in Mc Donald. Davy's system is effective no doubt and we do play a fine brand of high energy hurling but there is a time and a place.15 v 15 and we would of beaten them comfortably,of that I have no doubt much like what we done to Offally in Tullamore. To suggest it took 2 years of coaching to get our backs to focus on simply breaking the ball for the sweeper is a bit silly and suggesting we couldn't hurl man for man at any stage is another poor misjudgement.
What I do have an issue with is the lack of flexbility our mngt have shown with regards utilising the panel and the persistance of sticking with an inconsistent untidy sweeper, playing one of the strongest hurlers inthe country in lee chin completly out of position and persisting with a wing back that struggles defensively time and time again. All very fixable issues.
As regards Guiney, check our championship top scores of the last 5 years and despite missing a fair chunk,he is still right up there. If you cant see that this forward line is crying out for more physicality and ball winning ability then you must of been watching a different set of players than I have. We have no focal point to our attack what so ever and Guiney would provide this along with vision and scoring power. You seem to be forgetting that Tj Reid has 5 extra years of intercounty hurling experience on Mc Donald so comparing them is simply unfair. What is unique about Reid is his ball winning ability in rucks and in the air,thats why he is such a fantastic hurler and its this skillset that our forward line is crying out for.
I also suggested previousely that we desperatly needed either David Dunne or Dunbar to start for us because our forwards are very one paced ,the introduction of Dunne saturday night added a totally different dimension to our attack.His direct running style helped counteract the opposing teams sweeper by drawing the sweeper into contact which created space for our other forwards as our goal saturday night showed. Why he was withdrawn and replaced with a standing target like jacko was a great mystery. I feel Dunne and Dunbar have been totally under used so far this year,jacko has been preferred in the half forward line which hasn't benefitted us in any way.
With a few tweaks this team has the potential to hurl well into august. Im looking forward to the under 21 game next wednesday to get another look at Rory Higgins and Ross Banville ,both are very highly rated in there clubs and have shown real promise at underage.
cragask (Wexford) - Posts: 892 - 13/06/2018 17:35:11
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Why would ya want Derek McGrath does he not play with a sweeper aswell and for me is more defensive minded than Davy..personally i would love Davy to stay cause i think the passion of the man for hurling suits our county but if he goes is there other lads out there... Anthony Daly Liam sheedy etc we got davy so why can't we go for them...I would love a full strong fit panel back for next year McGovern shore Ian Bryne James breen Jack Guiney padge Doran etc... also we need to start giving the younger guys game time next year
gannett83 (Wexford) - Posts: 322 - 13/06/2018 18:05:54
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Replying To gannett83: "Why would ya want Derek McGrath does he not play with a sweeper aswell and for me is more defensive minded than Davy..personally i would love Davy to stay cause i think the passion of the man for hurling suits our county but if he goes is there other lads out there... Anthony Daly Liam sheedy etc we got davy so why can't we go for them...I would love a full strong fit panel back for next year McGovern shore Ian Bryne James breen Jack Guiney padge Doran etc... also we need to start giving the younger guys game time next year" Why are we discussing next year when were only half way through this year and why are discussing replacements for davy? my god.
cragask (Wexford) - Posts: 892 - 13/06/2018 18:26:03
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Replying To cragask: "Why are we discussing next year when were only half way through this year and why are discussing replacements for davy? my god." cragask stop talking about Guiney it's not going to happen this year, he's left the panel and won't be back.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 309 - 13/06/2018 18:37:08
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To hurlorhurley: "[quote=Finchfurlong996: "[quote=perfect10: "Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 422 - 12/06/2018 19:15:49 2110685
our scoring rate is higher than 5 years ago,really?have you scores to back that up?we now have a forward in rory o connor who has the wow factor we did not have 5 years ago.5 years ago conor mc was a nipper of 18-19,an incredible prospect,has he blossomed?i would say no.is chin a forward?no in my view.
moaning about the ref is a cop out,and it is always a non-hurling problem with davy.it was clear banchfield was taking firman (who is a good prospect) to the cleaners,why didnt he change it?why didnt he bring eoin moore on?why was a tiring dee o keefe left on leahy?
what was working in the first half wasnt in the second,yet we had no plan b other than shut the shop?
hurling is now a 20-25 man game,especially given all the matches,yet we have about 3-4 subs max?" It sounds like you want Davy out? He is an All Ireland winning coach and we are lucky to have him. When Dunne left the names touted around would leave you feeling very underwhelmed but he has done a terrific job with let's face it an average bunch of players except for one or two. The reason for a lack of a bench comes from years of neglect at underage and this is the first crop to come through with a plan put forward by Griffin and Co about 10 years ago and with hurling 365 in the schools, the future is very bright. Good Counsel won a juvenile Leinster beating St Kierans with most of the panel coming from the New Ross area which has struggled in the last decade regards hurling. If Davy does go at the end of the year I'd love to see Detek McGrath get the job. Don't think he will take it as he probably want a well earned break but I think he would be perfect for us."
Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 255 - 13/06/2018 19:26:20
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Replying To theboys: "I dont dont believe for one minute that playing 4 game in four weeks has anything to do with result on saturday!! As far as i know wexford trained once aweek on a wednesday so how could u be fatigued,all hurlers want is more games!! The ref had notting to do with it either!! In my opinion having watched the game twice since,is that kilkenny in the first half were not able to cope with the runners or movement of our forward and could not deal with the space or short puckouts and the overlap with our sweeper in defence simple as!! Having said that kilkenny still created loads of scoring chances easy ones 2 all coming from their own puckout landing on our half back line in a 1v1 situation and we were cleaned out in my eyes!! Walter welsh i thought was cleaning foyle and tj was wininng his own ball on matt in the first half and if they had of converted we cetainly wouldnt have been so far clear!!in the second half i felt kikenney squeezed up and we were forced to hit long puckout and we got cleaned out,with kilkenny able to win there own ball they created overlaps and runners which along with the class of tj reid who pulled all the strings killed us!!it simple in my mind when we have to hurl our own patch win our own ball we struggle big time!! Kilkenny are kings at this and if u cant do it u wont be hurling or if ur not doin it in games u be sittin in the stand!!wexford need to man up and go man for man and try and hurl there own patch win there own ball and things might happen for us!! Thats whats goin to win us games!! Our squad looks weak also!! Big players need to stand up take control make things happen like tj reid did,our big guns havnt done that!! All this talk about steps,i say fair play to them and if u look at the game u can pick out aload of instances of our lad takin 8-10 steps on the ball!!my man of the match was paddy deegan i thought he was outstanding!!" The only team to progress from playing 3 or 4 weeks is ourselves and the only one team got a win from playing 3 weeks which was Galway against Dublin and they played and they gave their bench players a run. I agree it's not the only reason but it was a major factor on why we didn't win that game.
Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 255 - 13/06/2018 19:32:21
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Replying To hurler101: " Replying To cragask: "[quote=hurler101: "[quote=cragask: "Fairly obvious what went on Saturday night lads. We hurled brilliantly to get ourselves in front,they stayed in the game using there unmatched ability to manufacture frees, we missed oppertunities to bury them,there fresh legs brought the mimpetus and then there ability to score there frees and our inability to consistenly nail ours killed us. Also I will say this game was lost on the line. How or why Dee O Keeffe stayed on the pitch was beyond me. It was obvious 5 minutes into the second half that he hadn't the energy to track Ritchie Leahy when he was dropping back for puck outs, leahy went on to score 2/3 points which won them the game. Why was eoin moore or deveaurax brought onto him? Happened right in front of our line yet we waited til the damage was done before changing it!!
We should of brought on fresh legs when we went 7/8 up early in the second half to kill the game then when we did make changes we brought off our most lively and energitc forward in david dunne and left on kevin foley and nolan who both looked dead on there feet. Why wasn't Dunbar brought on? His pace would of caused havoc in the conditions.
Yes i agree about the referrering. KK are the most cynical team in the country and its an obvious fact that teams are simply not allowed tackle TJ Reid without the kk fans throwing a tantrum. There ability to manufacture frees,convert them and get away with systematic fouling whilst uintimaditing referrees is unrivalled in irish sport. Our naievity and wastefullness is our biggest flaw.
Things we learned again sat night;
1) we have to stay short with puck outs. We dont have any forwards capable of winning clean possession consistently. Chin was superb ball winner one time but seems to have forgotten how to,mcdonald is the most fouled forward in ireland but gets no protection. This wex team is crying out for afully fit jack guiney,say what you like about the chap but id of sent him an sos on sat night.
2) O keffee struggled defensively again.
3) Chin needs to play centrally im sick to death saying it.
4) our forward line needs either more pace/movement or a forward like jack guiney who can play at 11, win and distubute possession.
5) i Thought we defended well overally. Firman done well until donnellys fresh legs caused him bother. Despite others having a go ,o hanlon limited Tj reid quite well. Reid won rucks and stuff but didn't exatcly run riot as others appear to think.
6) I know we went 8 up using our sweeper but I am 100% if we were 15 v 15 against kk we would beat them. We again showed them too much respect. We have better hurlers than them full stop. By playing a sweeper were allowing them nulify our best forward and tighten up there weakesrt position at 3.Conor Mc 1 v 1 with Padraig Walsh would have resulted in the umpire having a sore arm. WE should of gone in for the kill saturday night and I dont care what anybody thinks.
We are very close to being a seriously hard team to beat. Few adustments, a week/10 days off training and we go at it again. Get everybody back and push on.Were 3 games from an all ireland final,theres's not a team out there that I think is any better than us bar Galway who are a step ahead of everyone. I believe limerick have peaked and although hurling brilliantly may well blow themselves out by the time august comes and we've proven we can beat clare and cork... Our season starts now in my eyes." I completely agree about O Keefe. In no mans land for puck outs, either go all the way with leahy or hold the 40. He did neither. Couple of issues with what your saying though. 1. What evidence is there that Jack Guiney would improve our team?? 2. Conor Mac is not our best forward by a long shot, if he learned to pass he could be. 3. MOH got a run around. I watched the game back, Tj Reid set up 5 points in the 2nd half!! He got on an amount of ball and simply ran the show. 4. Firman got skinned by Blanchfield. Got moved off him and then conceded 2 points off Donnelly. If that was Donahoe we would want him dropped. Firman is young and a good player so id stick with him but he didnt do well in the second half! 5. We didnt show them too much respect, we showed them too little by not killing the game. Its as if we didnt expect them to come back at us. We dropped our intensity, made poor decisions and what really bugged me is nobody stepped up in the 2nd half. The biggest thing learned over the past few weeks is that we have a thin squad. Davy clearly has no faith in a lot of our bench as he hasnt put them in at all even when we were hanging on sat evening."
2) Conor mc is the best forward we've produced in a generation. Has everything needed to be top class. He is a player being drowned in our system.Eaten breed is soon forgotten and Mc is sufferering from the extrordinary standards he set himself. 1 v 1 he is as good as any forward in the country.
3) bit harsh on matthew. Yes reid won a few rucks and laid off ball but if you were told before the game reid would only score 0-1 from play and have 7/8 possessions, would you not have been satisfied? Matthew limited reid, contained him and stuck to his task manfully although a few times particularly in the first half i thought he struggled.
4) Firman had a good first half hence his man being taken off ( Scanlon), blanchfield /donnellys fresh legs won some ball off him but ive been impressed with him overal.
5) by setting up with a sweeper we should them too much respect. There was no need to play anextra man against a forward unit that managed a grand total of what 3/4 points from play intheir last championship game. There the most limited of all the teams left, we should of backed ourselves and took them on. We should of made changes when we were in front ,had momentum. Few fresh legs including O keeffe and we would of won that game comfortably.
I think our squad is better than what Davy has utilised. Would Moore, deveraux,Mc Govern, Dunne,Tomkins, Donohoe realy weaken what started saturday night? I dont think its a case of not rating our subs with davy,its more of a preferance/loyality for certain players who have had poor years.
I think it was more mental fatigue than physical with us, 1 game a week shouldnt of kiled anybody. WE missed the boat in the offaly game,we could of made 6/7 changes that night ,rotated the squad and won comfortably ,we didn't and then lads energy did drop but with better mngt the impact on performance would of been minimal. We made the wrong changes in the wrong positions and took off/ brought on the wrong players saturday night. A game we threw away."]What ball did Guiney win over the years hes been around?? He is this great player who didnt have to be great at all. Poor Paul Morris gets given out about wholesale, yet he has been there good and bad days for 8/9 years. Give me him anyday!
Mac has almost got what it takes to be top class. He is missing a key component of top players. Its his decision making, compare him to TJ, who almost always does the right thing with the ball. Blame the system all you want but what I am looking at is what Mac does when he gets the ball, I know he will be on less than usual due to sweeper.
Rory O Connor is our best forward by a mile. Angles of running, gets on the front foot to shoot, shoots at the right time.
Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!"]TJ's efforts are aided by the fact he's allowed take as many steps as he deems nessecary...
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 13/06/2018 21:06:51
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Replying To wexico15: " Replying To hurler101: "[quote=cragask: "[quote=hurler101: "[quote=cragask: "Fairly obvious what went on Saturday night lads. We hurled brilliantly to get ourselves in front,they stayed in the game using there unmatched ability to manufacture frees, we missed oppertunities to bury them,there fresh legs brought the mimpetus and then there ability to score there frees and our inability to consistenly nail ours killed us. Also I will say this game was lost on the line. How or why Dee O Keeffe stayed on the pitch was beyond me. It was obvious 5 minutes into the second half that he hadn't the energy to track Ritchie Leahy when he was dropping back for puck outs, leahy went on to score 2/3 points which won them the game. Why was eoin moore or deveaurax brought onto him? Happened right in front of our line yet we waited til the damage was done before changing it!!
We should of brought on fresh legs when we went 7/8 up early in the second half to kill the game then when we did make changes we brought off our most lively and energitc forward in david dunne and left on kevin foley and nolan who both looked dead on there feet. Why wasn't Dunbar brought on? His pace would of caused havoc in the conditions.
Yes i agree about the referrering. KK are the most cynical team in the country and its an obvious fact that teams are simply not allowed tackle TJ Reid without the kk fans throwing a tantrum. There ability to manufacture frees,convert them and get away with systematic fouling whilst uintimaditing referrees is unrivalled in irish sport. Our naievity and wastefullness is our biggest flaw.
Things we learned again sat night;
1) we have to stay short with puck outs. We dont have any forwards capable of winning clean possession consistently. Chin was superb ball winner one time but seems to have forgotten how to,mcdonald is the most fouled forward in ireland but gets no protection. This wex team is crying out for afully fit jack guiney,say what you like about the chap but id of sent him an sos on sat night.
2) O keffee struggled defensively again.
3) Chin needs to play centrally im sick to death saying it.
4) our forward line needs either more pace/movement or a forward like jack guiney who can play at 11, win and distubute possession.
5) i Thought we defended well overally. Firman done well until donnellys fresh legs caused him bother. Despite others having a go ,o hanlon limited Tj reid quite well. Reid won rucks and stuff but didn't exatcly run riot as others appear to think.
6) I know we went 8 up using our sweeper but I am 100% if we were 15 v 15 against kk we would beat them. We again showed them too much respect. We have better hurlers than them full stop. By playing a sweeper were allowing them nulify our best forward and tighten up there weakesrt position at 3.Conor Mc 1 v 1 with Padraig Walsh would have resulted in the umpire having a sore arm. WE should of gone in for the kill saturday night and I dont care what anybody thinks.
We are very close to being a seriously hard team to beat. Few adustments, a week/10 days off training and we go at it again. Get everybody back and push on.Were 3 games from an all ireland final,theres's not a team out there that I think is any better than us bar Galway who are a step ahead of everyone. I believe limerick have peaked and although hurling brilliantly may well blow themselves out by the time august comes and we've proven we can beat clare and cork... Our season starts now in my eyes." I completely agree about O Keefe. In no mans land for puck outs, either go all the way with leahy or hold the 40. He did neither. Couple of issues with what your saying though. 1. What evidence is there that Jack Guiney would improve our team?? 2. Conor Mac is not our best forward by a long shot, if he learned to pass he could be. 3. MOH got a run around. I watched the game back, Tj Reid set up 5 points in the 2nd half!! He got on an amount of ball and simply ran the show. 4. Firman got skinned by Blanchfield. Got moved off him and then conceded 2 points off Donnelly. If that was Donahoe we would want him dropped. Firman is young and a good player so id stick with him but he didnt do well in the second half! 5. We didnt show them too much respect, we showed them too little by not killing the game. Its as if we didnt expect them to come back at us. We dropped our intensity, made poor decisions and what really bugged me is nobody stepped up in the 2nd half. The biggest thing learned over the past few weeks is that we have a thin squad. Davy clearly has no faith in a lot of our bench as he hasnt put them in at all even when we were hanging on sat evening."
2) Conor mc is the best forward we've produced in a generation. Has everything needed to be top class. He is a player being drowned in our system.Eaten breed is soon forgotten and Mc is sufferering from the extrordinary standards he set himself. 1 v 1 he is as good as any forward in the country.
3) bit harsh on matthew. Yes reid won a few rucks and laid off ball but if you were told before the game reid would only score 0-1 from play and have 7/8 possessions, would you not have been satisfied? Matthew limited reid, contained him and stuck to his task manfully although a few times particularly in the first half i thought he struggled.
4) Firman had a good first half hence his man being taken off ( Scanlon), blanchfield /donnellys fresh legs won some ball off him but ive been impressed with him overal.
5) by setting up with a sweeper we should them too much respect. There was no need to play anextra man against a forward unit that managed a grand total of what 3/4 points from play intheir last championship game. There the most limited of all the teams left, we should of backed ourselves and took them on. We should of made changes when we were in front ,had momentum. Few fresh legs including O keeffe and we would of won that game comfortably.
I think our squad is better than what Davy has utilised. Would Moore, deveraux,Mc Govern, Dunne,Tomkins, Donohoe realy weaken what started saturday night? I dont think its a case of not rating our subs with davy,its more of a preferance/loyality for certain players who have had poor years.
I think it was more mental fatigue than physical with us, 1 game a week shouldnt of kiled anybody. WE missed the boat in the offaly game,we could of made 6/7 changes that night ,rotated the squad and won comfortably ,we didn't and then lads energy did drop but with better mngt the impact on performance would of been minimal. We made the wrong changes in the wrong positions and took off/ brought on the wrong players saturday night. A game we threw away."]What ball did Guiney win over the years hes been around?? He is this great player who didnt have to be great at all. Poor Paul Morris gets given out about wholesale, yet he has been there good and bad days for 8/9 years. Give me him anyday!
Mac has almost got what it takes to be top class. He is missing a key component of top players. Its his decision making, compare him to TJ, who almost always does the right thing with the ball. Blame the system all you want but what I am looking at is what Mac does when he gets the ball, I know he will be on less than usual due to sweeper.
Rory O Connor is our best forward by a mile. Angles of running, gets on the front foot to shoot, shoots at the right time.
Finally, i think you and many other posters see the sweeper as a super negative tactic, its not. Using it our scoring rate is much higher than it was 4/5 years ago with many of the same team. So this idea that its holding back our team is based on an idea in your head!"]TJ's efforts are aided by the fact he's allowed take as many steps as he deems nessecary..."]This whinging about TJ's steps is a bit much lads! If i was to rate the 3 players who consistantly take steps i would go Conor McGrath, Seamus Harnedy and Liam Ryan. TJ is generally given an extra few because he is being pulled and his hurl held etc. as in any forward who is strong enough to keep moving!
hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 13/06/2018 22:10:09
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