HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Wexford hurling 2018

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Did we go too defensive too soon yesterday? We dropped off in the second half and seemed to change game plan. I felt the game was lost on the line, we should have pushed on and finished Kilkenny off when we were 9 points up. Have we improved from last year? hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 10/06/2018 13:56:36 2109387 Link
Replying To Northcountyman: "Ok so we've enjoyed some success in gaining promotion and consolidating in division 1A and now we want more. Thats how sport goes. The big difference is at half time and early into the second half all eyes were on Brian Cody and his backroom team. Wexford 9 up and cruising so who was going to win out. I cant help thinking that while employing a sweeper system has worked in making us hard to beat yesterday was one of those days that being brave might have gotten us over the line. By brave I mean we had an opportunity yesterday to throw a spanner into the works for Cody by going 15 on 15 and driving it home. Are we a one trick pony? its beginning to feel like Davy is in my view. A couple of years ago after a draw in Ennis Davy brought his AI champs to the Park and when they were getting on top in the second half and got a goal we went straight up the field Rory Jacob played a long fast ball onto the edge of the square Mc caught it and stuck it into the net and within a minute we had cancelled out Clares goal. Now before I get accused of a Mac love in lets think about the changes the chap has had to make to adapt to the new system we now play to. Hes built his physical strength up, improved his sprint speed and something he gets very little credit for is his vision and lay off team play. Hes been accused of being a one trick pony himself but the facts are even though form has slipped his work rate and professionalism have always been top class. Thats why Davy picks him. Mac and Guiney's arrival on the senior scene were very similar but the difference is the character of the individual and attitude towards making it for Wexford. Regarded by many as one of the best in Ireland under a ball on the edge of the square we now have a player whose effect we have completely nullyfied by allowing him to be double marked even when we are on top in games. Every ball the man goes for is a physical battle with 2 and sometimes 3 defenders before the ball even arrives. I dont care how fit you are but at that level to be able to sustain the hits for 70 plus minutes would be next to impossible. So the sweeper does a job at one end but with a man less to aim for up front whats the alternative? Shots from mid to long range are great when they go over but a wide ball is a dead ball which gives the advantage back to the opponents. Ask any forward what they want and the answer will be "fast ball in every day" Surely at some point in a lot of matches theres a time when we can decide to take the shackles off and go for the kill by using what we know we have. Most of these players have played it all the way up from U14, they got to a Leinster minor final and won 3 Leinster U21s playing it. Surely yesterday at 9 up and Kilkenny there for the taking, we couldve changed our game plan for ten minutes when they were gaining momentum, to kill the game off. Instead they knew they were ok at the back with the extra man and once they started to win ball around the middle we had no plan B. The long range shooting became less productive and our 5 forwards and their 6 backs could only look at ball after ball sail high and wide. Cody could make his changes without any counter from our line and eventually it clicked for them and they got on top. All the talk was of Walsh being a weakness at full back, our system makes it easier to cope for a full back why oh why cant we change it up a bit mid game and isolate full forward on full back a few times, kill off the game and keep their management thinking? Definitely one that got away from the one trick pony yesterday" He gets very little credit for his vision beacause he doesnt use it nearly often enough, he only passes when he has to! 2 crazy examples yesterday when we needed a score he shot with a better option outside. He is double marked easily because he isnt moving enough. Now to be fair he is good at a lot of what you said but you are way over stating and over rating his quality. You can chalk it down to tiredness if you like but i think we lost yesterday due to poor game management. Bad shot selection/execution. Panic on our puckouts. Not set up to win breaks off half forwards and worst of all when we started to slide tried to kill time. Start a shoving match, go down injured, anything to break their momentum needed to be done, ideally a score but when that didnt happen something had to be done!! We really need to improve in our professionalism during the games, call it cuteness or whatever but for me thats where we lost a tight game. hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 10/06/2018 14:34:17 2109405 Link
Replying To hurlorhurley: "Did we go too defensive too soon yesterday? We dropped off in the second half and seemed to change game plan. I felt the game was lost on the line, we should have pushed on and finished Kilkenny off when we were 9 points up. Have we improved from last year?" Have we improved I think we have... for me we won't win nothing unless we sort out full back line and with a couple of positional switches I think there is a team there capable of winning something... I think we struggle in the backs especially in full back line teams wil just say Get the ball in high and fast firman struggled when blancfield went in there last week it was Donohoe.. do we move O Hanlon back there full back and push Ryan to the corner with reck in other corner... Paudie Foley to center back with jack o Conor wing back??? D o to midfield or wing forward... I don't know I think Ryan is the best full back we have had since Darragh Ryan... if shore could get back it would be a big edition... I don't know we seem so close but yet so far this team needs to make a break true soon this will be our 3rd quarter in 4 years... first gannett83 (Wexford) - Posts: 322 - 10/06/2018 14:47:15 2109409 Link
Replying To hurler101: "He gets very little credit for his vision beacause he doesnt use it nearly often enough, he only passes when he has to! 2 crazy examples yesterday when we needed a score he shot with a better option outside. He is double marked easily because he isnt moving enough. Now to be fair he is good at a lot of what you said but you are way over stating and over rating his quality. You can chalk it down to tiredness if you like but i think we lost yesterday due to poor game management. Bad shot selection/execution. Panic on our puckouts. Not set up to win breaks off half forwards and worst of all when we started to slide tried to kill time. Start a shoving match, go down injured, anything to break their momentum needed to be done, ideally a score but when that didnt happen something had to be done!! We really need to improve in our professionalism during the games, call it cuteness or whatever but for me thats where we lost a tight game." Again I wasnt trying to make it about one player. It could be anyone in there the point is the system is more about cutting down the scores against more so than trying to win a game that was there for the taking. Rory O Connor got a score in the first half which was as a result of a cross field ball to Paul Morris who laid it to Rory. no matter who played it the vision and ability to pick out Morris from the full width of the pitch made it an excellent score. That game was there for the taking at half time and while Cody did everything he could to make things happen(including replacing a sub that wasnt working out), our line showed no idea on how to close out the game. The system we play is aimed at reducing chances at one end but limits the chances at the other. Being able to isolate one forward on one back wont happen because we simply never have the numbers at the top end of the field. Its ok sweepers and half backs having the ball but their options are limited and they need to be 100% accurate with passes or shots no matter who is inside. Shefflin said during the league that he'd hate to be in the Wexford full forward line so there has to be something in it. We dont have five rocket speed forwards and even if we did we would complain that theyre too small and cant win their own ball but against 6 backs whats the best type of player to have? The sweeper works to a point but yesterday was a day when once it worked and gave us the advantage someone somewhere out there should have been able to make the call to go for the jugular and kill the game. We allowed them to work their way back because they began to manage our system and we didnt keep them thinking. Northcountyman (Wexford) - Posts: 59 - 10/06/2018 15:13:32 2109421 Link
Replying To Northcountyman: "Again I wasnt trying to make it about one player. It could be anyone in there the point is the system is more about cutting down the scores against more so than trying to win a game that was there for the taking. Rory O Connor got a score in the first half which was as a result of a cross field ball to Paul Morris who laid it to Rory. no matter who played it the vision and ability to pick out Morris from the full width of the pitch made it an excellent score. That game was there for the taking at half time and while Cody did everything he could to make things happen(including replacing a sub that wasnt working out), our line showed no idea on how to close out the game. The system we play is aimed at reducing chances at one end but limits the chances at the other. Being able to isolate one forward on one back wont happen because we simply never have the numbers at the top end of the field. Its ok sweepers and half backs having the ball but their options are limited and they need to be 100% accurate with passes or shots no matter who is inside. Shefflin said during the league that he'd hate to be in the Wexford full forward line so there has to be something in it. We dont have five rocket speed forwards and even if we did we would complain that theyre too small and cant win their own ball but against 6 backs whats the best type of player to have? The sweeper works to a point but yesterday was a day when once it worked and gave us the advantage someone somewhere out there should have been able to make the call to go for the jugular and kill the game. We allowed them to work their way back because they began to manage our system and we didnt keep them thinking." What you are saying makes no sense at all. So when you go ahead in a game you should then open it up and throw away your supposed safety net?? Stop trying to blame the system and by association Davy using that logic because it appears like you dont know what you are on about! Did you ever think about the stupidity of changing a system that you used to go 9 points up to try kill the game?? The game was dead if we had of kept our cool and made better decisions( both an the field and the line) hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 10/06/2018 15:45:26 2109430 Link
Yesterday it wasnt the system that let them down it was very poor decision making. I still cant understand our puck out strategy in the second half and why they all went down on Morrissey. We literally handed them the game. In saying that we shouldnt have allowed Kilkenny to win all that ball. In the second half absolutely none of our forwards stood up. Chin is the captain and he was missing completely in the second half. It was extremely disappointing. He cleaned up in the league semi final. I thought David dunne was a good addition to the team yesterday. I would have like to see dunbar replace him when he started to drift from the game. Kevin Foley has been getting lost lately, swapping him with jacko off the bench could be an option. Also our bench gave us nothing yesterday. Jacko got the ball once it didnt work out. I still think he needs to be midfield or half back. Looking back its hard to assess where we are. Are we really on par with Kilkenny? I dont know but I hope we are. I dont think our issues are with our backs. Our forwards just simply dont win their own ball consistently enough. I also don't understand how the ref allowed the kilkenny backs to be so aggressive while gave frees against our backs for the same things. Wexboi92 (Wexford) - Posts: 74 - 10/06/2018 19:36:53 2109527 Link
Our legs beat us yesterday, nothing else, you make bad decisions and execute poorly when tired, we'll make a semi at least, hon Wexford dumptruck1 (Wexford) - Posts: 206 - 10/06/2018 20:41:00 2109560 Link
our forwards need to be cuter,if there is contact go down and win the free.drag the defender into the tackle,f it all the big counties are doing it. b to this men of honesty,etc we cant beat them so join them? perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 10/06/2018 21:00:12 2109567 Link
Kevin Foley should be our sweeper 890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 10/06/2018 21:18:18 2109579 Link
Replying To hurler101: "What you are saying makes no sense at all. So when you go ahead in a game you should then open it up and throw away your supposed safety net?? Stop trying to blame the system and by association Davy using that logic because it appears like you dont know what you are on about! Did you ever think about the stupidity of changing a system that you used to go 9 points up to try kill the game?? The game was dead if we had of kept our cool and made better decisions( both an the field and the line)" the first line of your reply says it all and in answer to you I say yes wexford should have been brave and went on to win the game. Brian Cody brought a young exciting new talent on and it didnt work so he substituted a sub because for 20 years he has shown no fear and remains the mot successful manager in the history of the game. Davy;s system has made us hard to beat and we probably wont suffer the 20 to 30 point defeats we have suffered in quarter or semi finals that we have suffered since the back door came in but the point I was making was at certain points and in certain games we have to believe we re good enough to go on and win the game. Yesterday was the day. Kilkenny were there for the taking and we didnt do it. Dare I suggest a change in tactics wouldve kept KK occupied and given them something more to think of? I sat in Croke Park in 2008 and watched Waterford be ripped apart in the first half of an All Ireland final. Probably the best set of Waterford players in 50 years were blown away and the whole country wanted them to do well but cody dealt with it then yesterday once he dealt with the system again Davy had no answer. Lets not be afraid to express an opinion through fear. Davy has brought us to a level but yesterday showed that even Davy needs to be flexible sometimes. Liam Dunne brought us to a level which was above and beyond expectation but that was then, We still slate the man now because Davy is on board. Take the 50 or 60 grand we're paying Davy out of the equation and ask the question could we have won that game yesterday by changing our tactics when we had them on them on the rack. I actually think we could and should have won the game but many people will not dare question Davy because he's davy Northcountyman (Wexford) - Posts: 59 - 10/06/2018 21:33:52 2109588 Link
That's a very hard pill to swallow. Culmination of things really. 17 wides is poor. There are few excuses for letting a lead like that slip. Although the fatigue was bound to set in after the four weeks in a row which was exceptionally unfair on us. The man in the middle only wanted one team to prevail which is hard to battle against. I'm most annoyed because I'm now certain that pound for pound we are now better than kilkenny. The best team lost yesterday. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3874 - 10/06/2018 21:56:34 2109595 Link
Replying To Northcountyman: "the first line of your reply says it all and in answer to you I say yes wexford should have been brave and went on to win the game. Brian Cody brought a young exciting new talent on and it didnt work so he substituted a sub because for 20 years he has shown no fear and remains the mot successful manager in the history of the game. Davy;s system has made us hard to beat and we probably wont suffer the 20 to 30 point defeats we have suffered in quarter or semi finals that we have suffered since the back door came in but the point I was making was at certain points and in certain games we have to believe we re good enough to go on and win the game. Yesterday was the day. Kilkenny were there for the taking and we didnt do it. Dare I suggest a change in tactics wouldve kept KK occupied and given them something more to think of? I sat in Croke Park in 2008 and watched Waterford be ripped apart in the first half of an All Ireland final. Probably the best set of Waterford players in 50 years were blown away and the whole country wanted them to do well but cody dealt with it then yesterday once he dealt with the system again Davy had no answer. Lets not be afraid to express an opinion through fear. Davy has brought us to a level but yesterday showed that even Davy needs to be flexible sometimes. Liam Dunne brought us to a level which was above and beyond expectation but that was then, We still slate the man now because Davy is on board. Take the 50 or 60 grand we're paying Davy out of the equation and ask the question could we have won that game yesterday by changing our tactics when we had them on them on the rack. I actually think we could and should have won the game but many people will not dare question Davy because he's davy" You are misreading me, I have no great love for Davy or sweeper systems or his tactics. I constantly question how we set up for puck outs and I am by no means a lamb following the great Davy. I just cannot see the sense in changing how you play when you have gone 9 points up!! Going 9 up says what your doing is working, keep at it. Not jesus we better attack more and make sure we win!! It would actually make more sense to try defend the lead more, I would disagree with that too but at least it would make sense. On a slight aside, a lot of posters wanted us to abandon the sweeper for this game. It will take a long time and maybe even a new team for us to adjust to traditional hurling! All our backs are not playing at all like they should i 15 v15. They are out of shape, too tight at times just trying to get their man to miss the ball so the sweeper can tidy up. Do people think you can flick a switch and abandon the last 2 years of coaching?? How long has it taken a talented Clare group adapt?? hurler101 (Wexford) - Posts: 471 - 10/06/2018 22:07:17 2109607 Link
Replying To dumptruck1: "Our legs beat us yesterday, nothing else, you make bad decisions and execute poorly when tired, we'll make a semi at least, hon Wexford" I think the 16 wides were out down fall, completely disagree with 'our legs' beating us. Top teams should be able to play a game a week, if we we're playing championship we would be playing a challenge match anyway. Not fatigue, loss of concentration and focus, not able to manage the emotions etc. and an over hyped sideline team feeds into this. castletownman (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 10/06/2018 22:49:33 2109642 Link
So disappointed yesterday, would of loved to snatch the game from Kilkenny in their own back yard. We had so many chances and we made so many mistakes. The Referee gave us nothing, their backs were hacking the Wexford forwards, ref done everything to get Kilkenny back in the game. We played into their hands in the second half and we couldn't work out how to stop the rot. Why didn't P Foley take all the long range frees? We couldn't buy a puckout. Same guys as usual didn't help the cause, like what does Chin have to do to be taking off? He has gone missing in every championship game this year, just think he is overrated and seems to believe all the hype. He needs to go back to basics, stay away from stupid articles, he not helping himself or his hurling. Wexford should of thrown in Tompkins earlier, he big and strong and wouldn't be pushed around. Thought O Keefee was very poor again, his first touch is desperate this year. Thought Dunne was very good yesterday and was a real thorn in KKs side, not having any ball winner in the second half his influence wained. Why hasn't Davy used him more? And Dunbar? The rest will do them good, they will have plenty of time to iron out glaring issues if possible, 1. the Wides 2. The concession of Frees 3. Shot selections 4.a plan B Tox73 (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 10/06/2018 23:20:28 2109650 Link
Replying To Northcountyman: "the first line of your reply says it all and in answer to you I say yes wexford should have been brave and went on to win the game. Brian Cody brought a young exciting new talent on and it didnt work so he substituted a sub because for 20 years he has shown no fear and remains the mot successful manager in the history of the game. Davy;s system has made us hard to beat and we probably wont suffer the 20 to 30 point defeats we have suffered in quarter or semi finals that we have suffered since the back door came in but the point I was making was at certain points and in certain games we have to believe we re good enough to go on and win the game. Yesterday was the day. Kilkenny were there for the taking and we didnt do it. Dare I suggest a change in tactics wouldve kept KK occupied and given them something more to think of? I sat in Croke Park in 2008 and watched Waterford be ripped apart in the first half of an All Ireland final. Probably the best set of Waterford players in 50 years were blown away and the whole country wanted them to do well but cody dealt with it then yesterday once he dealt with the system again Davy had no answer. Lets not be afraid to express an opinion through fear. Davy has brought us to a level but yesterday showed that even Davy needs to be flexible sometimes. Liam Dunne brought us to a level which was above and beyond expectation but that was then, We still slate the man now because Davy is on board. Take the 50 or 60 grand we're paying Davy out of the equation and ask the question could we have won that game yesterday by changing our tactics when we had them on them on the rack. I actually think we could and should have won the game but many people will not dare question Davy because he's davy" I agree with you I think we should be able to read the signs when the opposition set themselves up to stop our runners. Rather than trying to flog a dying horse we should be able to change our system mid stream and counteract the opposition's setup. The second half last night was identical to the Galway game, everyone bursting a gut but to no avail as all our running channels were blocked. We got a brilliant goal last night from a long puckout as we had plenty of forwards in front of the KK goal to take advantage of the breaking ball. gminor (Wexford) - Posts: 488 - 10/06/2018 23:40:07 2109656 Link
Replying To dumptruck1: "Our legs beat us yesterday, nothing else, you make bad decisions and execute poorly when tired, we'll make a semi at least, hon Wexford" Hope your right . Hurl with the same intensity and quality as the first half yesterday we will trouble a lot of teams . Our decision making such as poor passes and shot selection was evident in the second half. We had more than enough chances to win that game. Fourth quarter final since the Limerick game in 2014. We will play either Limerick , Cork or Clare after we envitably beat Carlow/Westmeath. All top quality teams this year particularly Limerick I think look impressive . For this year to be a success we have to be reaching the All Ireland semi and this team is capable. Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 10/06/2018 23:40:38 2109657 Link
Replying To Afinestick: "Hope your right . Hurl with the same intensity and quality as the first half yesterday we will trouble a lot of teams . Our decision making such as poor passes and shot selection was evident in the second half. We had more than enough chances to win that game. Fourth quarter final since the Limerick game in 2014. We will play either Limerick , Cork or Clare after we envitably beat Carlow/Westmeath. All top quality teams this year particularly Limerick I think look impressive . For this year to be a success we have to be reaching the All Ireland semi and this team is capable." I think Tipp and Waterford being eliminated really helps us. I dont think any of the 3 remaining Munster counties are any better than us. If we avoid Galway in the semi I wouldnt be surprised see us make the Final. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16772 - 11/06/2018 00:43:55 2109677 Link
Replying To castletownman: "I think the 16 wides were out down fall, completely disagree with 'our legs' beating us. Top teams should be able to play a game a week, if we we're playing championship we would be playing a challenge match anyway. Not fatigue, loss of concentration and focus, not able to manage the emotions etc. and an over hyped sideline team feeds into this." I think what people are referring to is the inequality of us playing 4 weekends on the bunch facing a kilkenny team who 13 days off from there last appearance Don't think it's a coincidence that galway last night against Dublin are the only team to win playing a 3rd or 4th weekend on the spin bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 11/06/2018 00:48:31 2109678 Link
i hope you are right re beating westmeath or carlow,bug we need to treat it like offaly game. what is wrong with this board of late,i tried to create 2 threads on the main page,one about how to tackle in hurling,which i feel ie becoming more difficult,the other about sky,neither of which were allowed.why bother creating discussion? perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 11/06/2018 08:24:11 2109708 Link
I'd be a bit uncomfortable with all the complaining afterwards about the ref in the media. gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 639 - 11/06/2018 10:26:55 2109771 Link