(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post
|
Yes, that is my reading aswell but others seem to have a different slant on it. The bottom 2 teams in the round robin in Munster and Leinster are out at the end of the round robin except for a possible playoff against Kerry in Munster to stay in Munster the following year !!!?
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 01/10/2017 15:32:09 2052123 Link 0 |
|
Can 2 tier 2 teams play in the senior quarter finals? maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1236 - 01/10/2017 16:35:13 2052128 Link 0 |
|
Yeah, a lot of the problems with this system come from the fact that they are trying to keep the Provinces with equal numbers and that makes things inflexible and creates the Kerry and Galway problems. There are ways to get around this while still keeping the Provincial championships and keeping them knockout and teams don't have to play outside their traditional Province. You have a qualifying stage which includes the Provincial championships. Say you want to have 14 teams in the Liam McCarthy cup and you want every team to play 4 matches. Using what would have been next year's teams you'd have: All 6 Munster teams 7 Leinster teams (Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow) Galway Round 1 Provincial quarterfinals. 2 Munster, 3 Leinster, plus 2 interprovincial ties. 2 Munster bye teams vs Galway and Leinster bye team. Round 2 Provincial semifinals. 2 Munster, 2 Leinster, plus 3 interprovincial ties. 3 Leinster quarterfinal losers v Galway and 2 Munster quarterfinal losers. Round 3 Provincial finals. 1 Munster, 1 Leinster, plus 5 interprovincial ties. 5 Leinster teams v 4 Munster teams and Galway. Round 4: Open draw round where the only condition is you can't play a team you've already played. Teams are ranked on a single table based on their 4 results. Knockout rounds 3-6 play quarterfinals, 1-2 bye into the semifinals. Some sort of relegation system. The system is incredibly flexible. You can have as many teams in the competition as you like playing as many qualifying matches as you like. Galway or any Ulster teams don't have to play in any Provincial championship but still have a fair shot. The number of teams in Munster is flexible, if Kerry are good enough they'll be in it, if not they won't. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 01/10/2017 17:16:52 2052135 Link 0 |
|
But surely that's good news for the likes of Westmeath. If they're that strong they'll get five games in 2018 in Tier 2, win it and then be competitive in a preliminary quarter final (last 8 of the competition where they haven't got to previously) against, for example, Wexford or Cork. In 2019 they'd then be in Leinster proper with four serious games against top opposition (likely Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford and Dublin). Relegation may well be their lot again that year but what's the alternative - be beaten every year in the first round of Leinster and then in the first round of the qualifiers. This gives them the chance of winning a significant competition (Tier 2) and building up capacity by then playing at a higher level.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 168 - 01/10/2017 17:27:15 2052138 Link 1 |
|
Yes, if they were both to win their preliminary quarter finals. Highly unlikely though I'd imagine.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 168 - 01/10/2017 17:30:43 2052139 Link 0 |
|
Yes, a maximum of three teams from one of the provincial groups can reach the last six (quarter and semi-finals). In the current system the most teams from a province that could have reached the last six was four as two of the six slots went to the finalists from the other province. There were three years in which four Munster teams made it to the last six - 2008, 2011 and 2017. Four teams never made it from Leinster.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 168 - 01/10/2017 17:57:21 2052142 Link 0 |
|
oh ok so it looks like a great system to me
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1236 - 01/10/2017 18:18:44 2052148 Link 0 |
|
Lough ree. If you look at the two groups of 5 as proposed. There are just 5 teams in Munster, but there are 8 teams in the Leinster championship. Laois, Westmeath andCarlow have been told you are not good enough to compete with the rest. What does that do for efforts to promote hurling in those 3counties?.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 01/10/2017 19:50:20 2052175 Link 0 |
|
It kicks us around as usual but what's new. At least central council were forced to let 2 of the tier 2 teams into senior instead of the zero teams they wanted. carlovia (None) - Posts: 1541 - 01/10/2017 20:28:08 2052194 Link 0 |
|
Galway are surely the big winners here.Home championship matches will be a new phenomenon for them. endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2508 - 01/10/2017 20:54:12 2052200 Link 0 |
|
Unfortunately now everyone gets to find out that our stadium is just as bad in the middle of summer as it is in the middle of winter.
SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 625 - 01/10/2017 21:17:01 2052211 Link 0 |
|
As I said above, I don't like the new system, but is it really any different for Westmeath, Carlow, and Laois from, whats there now? 2 teams from the "tier 2" group still go into a playoff for an AI quarter-final spot (which is actually a more advanced entry stage in the AI series than what the current system provides), and the "tier 2" group winner gets promoted to the Leinster round robin group automatically. That seems like a better deal than whats there now (and certainly better than what Kerry are getting).
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 01/10/2017 21:29:51 2052217 Link 0 |
|
that won't happen the minors of Kilkenny and somewhere else are more important the Christy Ring and Rackard are finals were very quickly moved away from the McCarthy Cup semi finals so that the minors from Cork and Galway could have their big day out valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1904 - 01/10/2017 23:04:57 2052238 Link 0 |
|
You get better by playing stronger teams instead of weaker because you measure yourself against the best and figure out what you need to do to close the gap. That's why the English rugby team played so many games against South Hemisphere teams ahead of the 2003 World Cup. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/10/2017 00:18:52 2052254 Link 0 |
|
I don't think this T2 group is all that bad an idea. Will be fiercely competitive as teams of similar standard play each other while blending the opportunity to play a T1 team at a latter stage. RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 572 - 02/10/2017 10:33:32 2052309 Link 0 |
|
But when teams are consistently beaten by 20 points everyone asks what that is doing for hurling in weaker counties. I'm not a fan of the new format but there is no denying it could be a real boost to tier 2 counties if they commit to it.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/10/2017 10:36:15 2052310 Link 0 |
|
Agreed. I hurling would be massively improved by having the lower levels of the league acting as qualifying tournaments for championship so that you get more overlap between grades. The grades are all very defined. Teams play teams around the same standard all the time. It makes the matches themselves competitive but it doesn't help development if teams aren't moving between levels. I'd have something where the league is something along the following lines: Spring competitions: 10 team NHL: teams are already qualified for Liam McCarthy cup and are determined by McCarthy cup performance from the previous year. 14 team Tony Keady cup played at same time as NHL. Is also a Liam McCarthy qualifier with 4 teams getting to play McCarthy cup hurling in the summer. 10-12 team Nicky Rackard cup becomes a Spring tournament: Acts as a Christy Ring cup qualifier. 4 teams qualify. Summer competition: 14 team Liam McCarthy cup: 14 team Christy Ring cup: Winner gets a NHL place for following year. 6-8 team Lowry Meagher cup: Winner gets a Tony Keady cup place for following year. Plenty of competition for every level but also teams play a wider range of opponents. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 02/10/2017 11:03:10 2052325 Link 0 |
|
That's the thing. Westmeath weren't losing by 20 points. They were losing by 9 to Tipp, Limerick and Wexford after those three pulled away towards the end. Yes they took the odd heavy loss to Galway but that can happen in a game between two established teams Galway vs Tipp this year and Tipp vs Waterford last year. Didn't stop Waterford being so close to an All-Ireland appearance last year or getting there this year. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/10/2017 12:08:23 2052352 Link 0 |
|
I think we need to get away from the attitude that every game needs to be close in the GAA. Hammerings happen even between supposedly evenly matched teams. Carlow took Antrim to the cleaners in a Christy Ring final. The only way the depth of quality will improve is if teams aren't Ring fenced off from playing each other. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 02/10/2017 12:17:41 2052355 Link 0 |
|
Criminal setup now..this is totally wrong and unfair on the counties trying their best to promote and make a breakthrough of which they are not that far off naming Westmeath, Kerry, laois,antrim ,Carlow and meath. Just when Hurling looked finally as if it was going to take off into a new golden age ie the 90's along comes this stupid proposal, youd nearly wonder is it trying to kill off the game completely and make it completely elitist...if any county wants to take part in the championship they should be allowed do so...simple as that, why do players train all year and line out for their county to do this, these players in these so called group try just as hard and train just as hard as the main ones now, its not like 20 years ago anymore, they are striving to improve and compete at the highest level. I fear now for these counties will they even get their strongest teams out now for next year if the players don't see any just reward in playing in a few games with paltry attendances, they deserve a cut off the big teams every year. Micheal Duignan can be happy all he wants considering offaly are in the elitist group, but honestly are they any better than Westmeath, Kerry, laois, Carlow etc...don't think so. Hurling is not being run properly,,,,the league is all wrong too,,,,,take for example Westmeath...I wonder if they had been playing in an old style division 2 of 8 teams this year would it have helped them in their development further, if they had they could have taken a noteworthy scalp or two in the championship earlier this year, but their useless paltry 4 league games let them down. I hope the counties in the preliminary group kick up further over this for their own sakes and the game in general. preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 804 - 02/10/2017 13:56:29 2052390 Link 0 |