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Limerick Senior Hurling 2018.

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Replying To PeggyShippen:  "Very Tight pitch. It's a complete myth that Ennis is as big as Thurles or Croker. It needs to be measured again. It seems wide but it's very short. I was talking to a groundsman about it in Cusack Park last year and he says the official size on wiki is completely wrong. It's a good few metres shorter than Thurles or Croke Park."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/september-road-the-long-and-the-short-of-pitches-1.1844127

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2697 - 19/06/2018 06:13:32    2112948

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "Still can't figure out all the focus on Dowling here. He made more impact than a lot of the other 6 forwards I thought. I'd like to see the stats to back up what people are saying. I thought he showed well and got out in front more times than others in the full forward line when many others were losing their own battles. I would say that Flanagan seems much better starting in full forward where he can make his diagonal runs out into space to receive the ball but I think its unfair and too simplistic to pick out Dowling of all the forwards on show.
Dan Morrissey and Cian Lynch aside, who battled right through, most were well below par. Unfair I think to just pick out Dowling who did as well or better than most when most of the team misfired on the day. This failing was more than just one person or positional element, there was an overall failure in terms of energy levels, execution and game plan. We have a more attritional approach to games than most and it looks like it just caught up with us. I think this young Limerick team and management can be forgiven a bad day out.

Hopefully we can learn from it and move on."
The focus Fitzy is simple he doesn't have the mobility to be an inside forward with the system we play. Clare I bet couldn't believe their luck that we selected him. Their corner backs are two of the slowest in the game. Remember what Pat Ryan did to O Connor in the league QF. O Connor won't get it as easy for the rest of the year. Dowling was tailor made for him. We had a system and a team that was working and then we changed it. Our full forward line should have been Gillane Flanagan and Mul. McInerney is top class but the other two should have been ran at all day and then bring on Murphy and Ryan for second helpings with 15 mins to go. There is a lot being made of fatigue and I don't know if it was a factor but it shouldn't be allowed to hide the errors that were made yesterday by the sideline. They need to man up and take the blame for a lot that they got wrong. Also and I know many won't like it but with possibly Walter Walsh Flynn Cooney or even Conlon again in our future we need to look at Richie Mac for full back. If Dowling has a role it could be as a ball winner for Hegarty with 10 mins to go because it seems most agree Dempsey is not the answer here.

welpastit (Limerick) - Posts: 740 - 19/06/2018 07:58:38    2112951

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LRH
That article does not prove that it is that big a pitch. it just states that someone in Clare claims it is. From walking across the terrace many times in both the Gaelic Grounds & Cusack Park there appears to be no real difference width wise anyawy

higgins (Limerick) - Posts: 256 - 19/06/2018 10:48:56    2112984

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Agree with all 'Welpastit' says there. They changed a winning formula. Dowling is a good player but but he slows everything down. Pat Ryan should still be first sub into the corner forward position. There's a long summer ahead if Limerick learn from this.

PeggyShippen (Limerick) - Posts: 300 - 19/06/2018 10:49:44    2112985

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Replying To welpastit:  "The focus Fitzy is simple he doesn't have the mobility to be an inside forward with the system we play. Clare I bet couldn't believe their luck that we selected him. Their corner backs are two of the slowest in the game. Remember what Pat Ryan did to O Connor in the league QF. O Connor won't get it as easy for the rest of the year. Dowling was tailor made for him. We had a system and a team that was working and then we changed it. Our full forward line should have been Gillane Flanagan and Mul. McInerney is top class but the other two should have been ran at all day and then bring on Murphy and Ryan for second helpings with 15 mins to go. There is a lot being made of fatigue and I don't know if it was a factor but it shouldn't be allowed to hide the errors that were made yesterday by the sideline. They need to man up and take the blame for a lot that they got wrong. Also and I know many won't like it but with possibly Walter Walsh Flynn Cooney or even Conlon again in our future we need to look at Richie Mac for full back. If Dowling has a role it could be as a ball winner for Hegarty with 10 mins to go because it seems most agree Dempsey is not the answer here."
Putting gillane straight in v Clare would have sent a poor message to the squad. Dowling had an excellent game against Waterford and I feel he wasn't as bad as people are making out. He's an easy target. For me he won a lot of ball and had to deal with an extra man on him for large parts. He tired last 20 with out a doubt. Kiely now has no such problems as the Gillane issue and will pick best team available in July. A lot of forwards didn't play well Sunday but I felt Dowling was one of our better ones

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 19/06/2018 11:42:26    2113003

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Replying To PeggyShippen:  "Very Tight pitch. It's a complete myth that Ennis is as big as Thurles or Croker. It needs to be measured again. It seems wide but it's very short. I was talking to a groundsman about it in Cusack Park last year and he says the official size on wiki is completely wrong. It's a good few metres shorter than Thurles or Croke Park."
A few Clare fans that i met laughed when it was said that its as big as Thurles OR Croke Park . Sometimes youve got to trust your own eyes, the pitch is small and tight

longtermfan (Limerick) - Posts: 120 - 19/06/2018 11:55:59    2113012

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Replying To welpastit:  "The focus Fitzy is simple he doesn't have the mobility to be an inside forward with the system we play. Clare I bet couldn't believe their luck that we selected him. Their corner backs are two of the slowest in the game. Remember what Pat Ryan did to O Connor in the league QF. O Connor won't get it as easy for the rest of the year. Dowling was tailor made for him. We had a system and a team that was working and then we changed it. Our full forward line should have been Gillane Flanagan and Mul. McInerney is top class but the other two should have been ran at all day and then bring on Murphy and Ryan for second helpings with 15 mins to go. There is a lot being made of fatigue and I don't know if it was a factor but it shouldn't be allowed to hide the errors that were made yesterday by the sideline. They need to man up and take the blame for a lot that they got wrong. Also and I know many won't like it but with possibly Walter Walsh Flynn Cooney or even Conlon again in our future we need to look at Richie Mac for full back. If Dowling has a role it could be as a ball winner for Hegarty with 10 mins to go because it seems most agree Dempsey is not the answer here."
I have to agree with most of that about Dowling and his pace . Gillane should have started on Sunday along with Flanagan and Mulcahy . Dowling done very well against a poor watfd team but Gillane has been doing the business all year . Why change a winning formula of our full forward line who were starting to connect with each other. One time Dowling was played for his free taking but even that has collapsed and this trying to give the man on the moon a sliotar for his collection every time he takes a free dosent make sense to me and he is losing his accuracy because of this . Impact full forward sub would be my place for him as he dosent have the pace for anywhere else and stay on the edge of the square as i think here Dowling can do serious damage .
what has Pat Ryan and Barry Murphy done wrong all of a sudden that Barry Nash and David Dempsey are now coming off the bench before them . pat Ryan wasnt even on the bench as far as i know . Those two lads have done really well all year when brought on and this should be continued imo . Dont know if Nash is even fully fit after his injury a few weeks back but i would still bring on the two mentioned lads ahead of him at the moment .
Half time we were 4 points down and a wind to play with in the second half so we were in a good position so why play two forwards inside, one of them who wasnt the most mobile . we needed 6 forwards and leave the ball into them fairly sharpish and see where it takes us especially when clare were pulling away and we needed goals . Plant someone at the edge of the square that can catch a sliotar and leave him there to rattle the net or break it down to oncoming runners who could bury it but ball after ball went in to our two man FF line and came straight back out and it looked like we had 10 men on the pitch instead of 14 . Anyway whats done is done now so we have to regroup , refresh and go back to playing the way we done all year and learn from Sunday and most of all play our own game and forget about trying to contain teams and our own system suffer as a result . i would guess we will be playing KK in the quarter Final depending if Galway really want to win Leinster or not and i have a feeling we will rise to that game and overcome the cats .
Forget about Sunday and we can still have a big say in this championship and make this great year even better..Keep the Faith...LUIMNEACH ABU .

WhipOnTheBall (Limerick) - Posts: 138 - 19/06/2018 12:03:49    2113014

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Replying To daveboy:  "Putting gillane straight in v Clare would have sent a poor message to the squad. Dowling had an excellent game against Waterford and I feel he wasn't as bad as people are making out. He's an easy target. For me he won a lot of ball and had to deal with an extra man on him for large parts. He tired last 20 with out a doubt. Kiely now has no such problems as the Gillane issue and will pick best team available in July. A lot of forwards didn't play well Sunday but I felt Dowling was one of our better ones"
Gillane was excellent against Tipperary and in every single league game all year. He has been our stand out forward by a country mile. I think dropping him sent out a far worse message to the panel. He was national U 21 player of the year last year and a nailed down All Star based on his displays before Cork game.

welpastit (Limerick) - Posts: 740 - 19/06/2018 12:56:16    2113040

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Replying To jimbob50:  "Have to be brutally honest here , we suffered a set back but it highlighted lots of things.
I have been a huge fan of Shane Dowling for his skill ,hard work and honesty but he lacks pace it really showed yesterday you could see the frustration on his face. Then after missing the 1st free which by his standards would be a given he lost confidence ,he failed to score from play because he couldn't gain that half a yard on the defender. Then we asked of him to be on of a two man forward line ? Gone are the days of playing a man for free taking ability.
Same with Mulcahy loads of pace but not big enough to win enough ball especially high ball of his own.
Both could be good impact subs but we have to be playing the Gillanes , Murphy's, Nashs and Casey's when they are fit .
Bottom line we were not a threat up front yesterday ,we were given a lesson in scoring from the Clare half and full forwards they were very efficient.

Like I said in a previous post we got out of 1b this year that was huge in my opinion so anything after that this year is a bonus , I still think we have more to offer this year but Kiely has to trust and develope the young guns and play them. Assuming we beat Carlow or west Meath then to have a showdown in Thurles against Killkenny or Galway would have any player or fan licking there lips.
Rest , re group and drive on."
All great points, Jim bob..well said!

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 19/06/2018 13:06:41    2113047

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Typical limerick supporters reading some of the above posts. Hindsight they know everything. If kiely dropped Dowling after his performance against Waterford and we lost to clare still then kiely would have been hung out to dry. Dowling had to start and Gillane left us down against Cork with a silly moment of madness. How could Dowling be dropped after his performance against Waterford? Silly to even suggest this. If his dropped next day then fair enough but kiely couldn't drop him last Sunday.

brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 19/06/2018 13:14:55    2113049

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Replying To batman:  "Think some of a player bashing here is disgraceful, What Tom Condon did yest was silly, shouldnt have got involved but to be called a Fool and a clown is way over the Top, this man has given brill service to Limk over the past 10yrs and foesnt deserved to be called those names, made a mistake, isnt the first or wont be the last player to be sent off by doing something he shouldnt have done, also up to his sending off he had done well and won the 3 or 4 balls that came his way, all these players give everyting to tbe cause and deserve better on here, support the players in the bad days as well as the good days"
Batman ,I blv you are replying to the wrong post as I did not bash Tom Condon, which appears to be what you are insinuating. I agree what he did was silly , but as more often than not we see only the reaction and not the provocation. (what caused Tom to react as he did?) . Am a big fan of Tom Condon's "steely resolve" and attribute what he did to the heat of battle. While I don't Condone his his "blown lid" yesterday, overall I would like to think and I have probably said this before, his no nonsense physicality/toughness /approach is being adopted by the team as a whole especially this year. He
He has been rightly punished and I look forward to seeing his teak toughness him back in the Green and white as soon as possible.

Come On Ye Boys In Green!!

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 19/06/2018 13:28:53    2113055

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Replying To hailorshine:  "What do you mean get behind the team. I have been following Limerick all my life. We were beaten by a better team."
That is the time to get behind this young team, otherwise one is only a bandwagoner.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 19/06/2018 13:53:27    2113061

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I suppose it was a bit of a reality check for us yesterday but Clare are a very good team and they have all Ireland medals. I wouldn't blame the management for the loss either ok a few mistakes were made but sometimes when things aren't going well on the pitch you need your players to react and adapt to the flow of the game. Clare crowded us out the field to counteract our short passing game, the sweeper killed us when we went long but the ball into the full forward line wasn't the best either and we didn't push up on Tuohy for his short puck outs. It was bit like 2013 again.

Dowling deserved to start he played himself onto the team against Waterford and he did win alot of ball in the first half but the ball into him later on was aimlessly hit in. His wides were a killer and he has to rethink his free taking style, walloping the ball up in the air trying to get it out over the stand from 30 yards out when he just needs to tap it over the bar. He is taking the accuracy out of his shots ballooning the ball just keep it direct a few feet over the bar.

Tom Condon is lucky to be on the panel as long as he has being 2013 was about his only good season. I'm not trying to kick the guy when he is down but there is no excuse for what he did, he is a long time fouling and swinging out of fellas giving away stupid frees. Straight away when he came on again straight down to Odonnell swinging off him.

Declan Hannon started off very well but he quietened off in the 2nd half, im a big fan of Hegarty but he needs to be consistent for the full game he tends to go missing at stages. I thought myself Richie McCarthy did very well on Conlan when he came on. I think Casey, English and Dan Morrissey played well under pressure for the full game. You couldn't fault the lads for effort they were beaten by the better teams on the day take on the chin and learn from it.

I thought Tony Kelly had a brilliant game for Clare we had no answer for him down in the backs getting the hooks in and up in the forward tagging on a few score. Colm Galvin played well, Duggan excellent on frees and himself and Conlon threatened all day. We made a star of Jamie Shanahan pucking aimless ball down to him letting him sweep and mop up everything. Mclnerney, Cleary and David Fitzgerald impressed me too. David Reidy wrongly getting sent off I think galvanised Clare too for the second half something like that would get a team hopping."
You are dead right about Ritchie. The Kilkenny Full Forward was held scoreless from play below in Nowlan Park last year, as in 11 months ago, and Ritchie led the line that day.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 19/06/2018 13:56:15    2113062

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Replying To daveboy:  "Putting gillane straight in v Clare would have sent a poor message to the squad. Dowling had an excellent game against Waterford and I feel he wasn't as bad as people are making out. He's an easy target. For me he won a lot of ball and had to deal with an extra man on him for large parts. He tired last 20 with out a doubt. Kiely now has no such problems as the Gillane issue and will pick best team available in July. A lot of forwards didn't play well Sunday but I felt Dowling was one of our better ones"
Labelling Dowling as one of the main reasons why we were so poor is just simply incorrect imo. People love to criticise him and he seems to be held to different standards than others. You could have played Flanagan at full forward, you could have put Joe Canning in there either way we would still have lost with the way the rest of the team performed.
Did Mulcahy, Flanagan, Hegarty, Hayes work harder and play better than him, i honestly don't think so, i'm not saying he is a world beater by any means and will have to work hard to keep his place but i do think it is unfair to single him out over others. There were failings in all lines of the field. Also i wouldn't say Gillane was dropped, I would say Dowling held his place after playing very well against Waterford while Gillane was suspended.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 433 - 19/06/2018 14:49:30    2113084

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Replying To brud:  "Typical limerick supporters reading some of the above posts. Hindsight they know everything. If kiely dropped Dowling after his performance against Waterford and we lost to clare still then kiely would have been hung out to dry. Dowling had to start and Gillane left us down against Cork with a silly moment of madness. How could Dowling be dropped after his performance against Waterford? Silly to even suggest this. If his dropped next day then fair enough but kiely couldn't drop him last Sunday."
Not hindsight Brud said Gillane should be started in a post after Waterford game. He has been immense as a target man and a scorer all year. How can playing well in one game put a player in front of a player who has been our stand out forward all year? Especially since that one game was so one sided against a depleted team. You are right in one sense there is no point in looking for a pound of flesh. We are where we are important thing is how we go forward and surely now our full forward line needs to be Gillane Flanagan and Mul. Peter Casey might push Mul. Thursday will be interesting from that perspective be interesting to see if Casey has found his magic of old.

welpastit (Limerick) - Posts: 740 - 19/06/2018 15:14:15    2113090

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Our best front line (in the absence of Casey at the moment ) is Mul, Flanagan and Gillane.
Flanagan was played out of position on Sunday, Gillane was not picked and Mul was substituted.
As for the lads who were making impact from bench in full forward line - Pat Ryan did not make match day panel and Murphy was unused sub.
The weakest line of the Clare team is full back line (i.e. the two corners). We failed to exploit it on Sunday.
Lessons will be learned.

It was our first defeat in 70 mins since Cats last July. If the rest is well used, we will come back stronger.

Luimneach abú!

beirbua (Limerick) - Posts: 188 - 19/06/2018 16:34:23    2113133

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I must say Limerick looked a bit flat on Sunday.
That saying I thought Kiely made some very bad decisions
He should have replaced Finn with Hickey
and his decision to take off Mulcahy and
replace him with McCarthy was ludicrous
Kyle hayes is not a forward and it's unfair to play him there.
As I said. earlier in the year how would Kiely react when things were going bad,would he make the right changes?
Well his first test and he failed badly.

Hope of good things to come.

skule111 (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 19/06/2018 17:01:36    2113144

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Replying To welpastit:  "Gillane was excellent against Tipperary and in every single league game all year. He has been our stand out forward by a country mile. I think dropping him sent out a far worse message to the panel. He was national U 21 player of the year last year and a nailed down All Star based on his displays before Cork game."
If you criticise kiely for not starting gillane v Clare you fail to grasp the ethos of a man trying to put together a panel capable of winning an all Ireland. Gillane relinquished his jersey v cork. He did it out of an act of immaturity and selfishness. He is a nailed on starter imo and will in the AI QF. But he must play his way back into the team or squad morale vanishes. No one is above the standards set by management. Kiely could not start him v Clare esp after the Waterford display. Anyone arguing this point baffles me.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 19/06/2018 17:10:04    2113146

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Replying To daveboy:  "If you criticise kiely for not starting gillane v Clare you fail to grasp the ethos of a man trying to put together a panel capable of winning an all Ireland. Gillane relinquished his jersey v cork. He did it out of an act of immaturity and selfishness. He is a nailed on starter imo and will in the AI QF. But he must play his way back into the team or squad morale vanishes. No one is above the standards set by management. Kiely could not start him v Clare esp after the Waterford display. Anyone arguing this point baffles me."
Someone on here talking sense. Dowling had to start 100% last Sunday. If we are to meet clare again this year in croke park we will win. I'm 100% confident we will get to croke park this year and it will take a fair performance from a team to beat us in a few weeks. We will be stronger after last Sunday. This team have given us 3 out of 4 fantastic performances in the Munster championship and an outstanding league campaign beating the all-ireland champions in there own backyard. We need to get behind and rally this team going forward not nail them like many on here are doing.

brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 19/06/2018 18:08:28    2113157

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What's with the negativity and criticism of players and management when Sunday morning the same poster's and national commentators were hailing us as the biggest challengers to Galway. Could it not be the fact that we were just tired and gassed by playing our 3rd game in a row-every other team in the country gave their worst performance in their 3rd game in a row and we were no different. Our game is based on very high work rate and we just didn't have this on Sunday and if your tired you rush your clearance, you snatch at things, you fall of tackles you misplace passes and shots- we did all this so those who said we could win Liam last week and are now writing us off need to put into perspective how many games we played in 3 weeks. I think Kiely now has a chance to tweek the team after this defeat and get us fresh and right for the next challenge which we are capable of meeting and doing very well in.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 899 - 19/06/2018 18:29:43    2113164

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