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Replying To meehan82: "Dealer I agree with what U say about full back line bar bringing in R Mac.From what I see the more of the older players U bring back in like R Mac,Condon, Dowling,we seem to lose the style of play that got Us promoted and get beat by bigger scores.Yesterday was a shambles.They weren't working as a unit like they have been all Year.Id blame this on the introduction of those players from yesterday and the very poor Waterford team we beat that made some look good.As for the forwards Yes Gillane has to come back in.But I'd go back to the full forward line of Gillane Flanagan and Mul and eventually bring in P Casey.Id leave every other line alone.That team was playing to a system.As for Our subs.Cant understand why they are persisting with Dempsey.Dont know how Nash is on the Sub bench He does nothing only moan when brought on.Cant figure out for the life of me why Pat Ryan wasn't on bench and how himself and Barry Murphy weren't brought on like before.When they were introduced in other games they were fantastic and made a big contribution.We need to go back to what was working.Rant over Limerick ABU" I've always been a big supporter of Ritchie McCarthy over the years but my preference would also be to go back to the U21 2015 full back line which means having English at full back. I don't like starting new players at 3 but he has a bit of experience now so I think he's entitled to the No 3 jersey which for me is the most iconic on any Limerick team. I prefer to give the young players experience and build for the future at this stage because this is a path that we have to travel. We all knew that Limerick were not the finished article and that there would be lessons to be learnt. I just though that it wouldn't be yesterday but I knew that it would come at some point.
I'm not content with our forward line. Yes - I want guys who can win ball, hunt and harry but I also want to see a Limerick forward line that scores readily and comfortably. I'm very inclined to argue to bring Hayes back into midfield which is very tough on O'Donovan. I believe that Nash has a ton of ability if he applies himself. I certainly believe that Morrissey, Guillane, Flanagan and Casey are our future. We're not quite there yet as a forward unit. I can see the components but not the complete jigsaw.
Clare were better than I expected yesterday. They went about their business much more efficiently than us and their big players all played well. But so did guys like Shanahan and Browne who I thought we could exploit. It will be an interesting Munster final as I don't think there's a lot between those two teams.
Finally, great credit to the Limerick supporters who followed the team to Ennis.
Dealer (Limerick) - Posts: 837 - 18/06/2018 10:59:30
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Have to be brutally honest here , we suffered a set back but it highlighted lots of things.
I have been a huge fan of Shane Dowling for his skill ,hard work and honesty but he lacks pace it really showed yesterday you could see the frustration on his face. Then after missing the 1st free which by his standards would be a given he lost confidence ,he failed to score from play because he couldn't gain that half a yard on the defender. Then we asked of him to be on of a two man forward line ? Gone are the days of playing a man for free taking ability.
Same with Mulcahy loads of pace but not big enough to win enough ball especially high ball of his own.
Both could be good impact subs but we have to be playing the Gillanes , Murphy's, Nashs and Casey's when they are fit .
Bottom line we were not a threat up front yesterday ,we were given a lesson in scoring from the Clare half and full forwards they were very efficient.
Like I said in a previous post we got out of 1b this year that was huge in my opinion so anything after that this year is a bonus , I still think we have more to offer this year but Kiely has to trust and develope the young guns and play them. Assuming we beat Carlow or west Meath then to have a showdown in Thurles against Killkenny or Galway would have any player or fan licking there lips.
Rest , re group and drive on.
jimbob50 (Limerick) - Posts: 100 - 18/06/2018 11:23:43
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Replying To Dealer: "I've always been a big supporter of Ritchie McCarthy over the years but my preference would also be to go back to the U21 2015 full back line which means having English at full back. I don't like starting new players at 3 but he has a bit of experience now so I think he's entitled to the No 3 jersey which for me is the most iconic on any Limerick team. I prefer to give the young players experience and build for the future at this stage because this is a path that we have to travel. We all knew that Limerick were not the finished article and that there would be lessons to be learnt. I just though that it wouldn't be yesterday but I knew that it would come at some point.
I'm not content with our forward line. Yes - I want guys who can win ball, hunt and harry but I also want to see a Limerick forward line that scores readily and comfortably. I'm very inclined to argue to bring Hayes back into midfield which is very tough on O'Donovan. I believe that Nash has a ton of ability if he applies himself. I certainly believe that Morrissey, Guillane, Flanagan and Casey are our future. We're not quite there yet as a forward unit. I can see the components but not the complete jigsaw.
Clare were better than I expected yesterday. They went about their business much more efficiently than us and their big players all played well. But so did guys like Shanahan and Browne who I thought we could exploit. It will be an interesting Munster final as I don't think there's a lot between those two teams.
Finally, great credit to the Limerick supporters who followed the team to Ennis." Richie English is playing superbly at 4. I'd leave him there. Mike Casey is a fine full back. He's learning on the go and I thought for large parts he plated well yesterday. Clare isolated conlan in opening 10-15 mins with quality ball to him in space. Hard for a fb to defend that. I think the fb line are fine the way they are. Finn was a big loss as our strength in depth here is not great. His injury is only minor i hear which is a big positive.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 18/06/2018 11:35:37
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Replying To longtermfan: "I dont like the Ennis pitch i think its too small and not condusive to good flowing hurling. Limerick looked flat and i think the energy exerted in a tough munster campaign finally caught up with them. However we did our job in munster and are now into All Ireland series. I think we will still have a major say. Regarding the forwards very weird decisions today from the line taking mulcahy and flanagan off also not naming Pat Ryan on bench who i regard highly . Barry murphy not coming on when we needed a bit of pace and not bringing on Paul Browne when it was obvious the Daragh o donovan had emptied . My favoured full forward line woud be mulcahy, flanagan and gillane . Does dowling have the pace ?" Ennis pitch is one of the biggest in Ireland - much bigger than semple
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2697 - 18/06/2018 11:43:35
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Replying To jimbob50: "Have to be brutally honest here , we suffered a set back but it highlighted lots of things.
I have been a huge fan of Shane Dowling for his skill ,hard work and honesty but he lacks pace it really showed yesterday you could see the frustration on his face. Then after missing the 1st free which by his standards would be a given he lost confidence ,he failed to score from play because he couldn't gain that half a yard on the defender. Then we asked of him to be on of a two man forward line ? Gone are the days of playing a man for free taking ability.
Same with Mulcahy loads of pace but not big enough to win enough ball especially high ball of his own.
Both could be good impact subs but we have to be playing the Gillanes , Murphy's, Nashs and Casey's when they are fit .
Bottom line we were not a threat up front yesterday ,we were given a lesson in scoring from the Clare half and full forwards they were very efficient.
Like I said in a previous post we got out of 1b this year that was huge in my opinion so anything after that this year is a bonus , I still think we have more to offer this year but Kiely has to trust and develope the young guns and play them. Assuming we beat Carlow or west Meath then to have a showdown in Thurles against Killkenny or Galway would have any player or fan licking there lips.
Rest , re group and drive on." I agree 100% on Dowling. Pace a huge issue.
Hurleybuoy (Limerick) - Posts: 5 - 18/06/2018 12:57:03
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Very Tight pitch. It's a complete myth that Ennis is as big as Thurles or Croker. It needs to be measured again. It seems wide but it's very short. I was talking to a groundsman about it in Cusack Park last year and he says the official size on wiki is completely wrong. It's a good few metres shorter than Thurles or Croke Park.
PeggyShippen (Limerick) - Posts: 300 - 18/06/2018 13:21:30
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Replying To jimbob50: "Have to be brutally honest here , we suffered a set back but it highlighted lots of things.
I have been a huge fan of Shane Dowling for his skill ,hard work and honesty but he lacks pace it really showed yesterday you could see the frustration on his face. Then after missing the 1st free which by his standards would be a given he lost confidence ,he failed to score from play because he couldn't gain that half a yard on the defender. Then we asked of him to be on of a two man forward line ? Gone are the days of playing a man for free taking ability.
Same with Mulcahy loads of pace but not big enough to win enough ball especially high ball of his own.
Both could be good impact subs but we have to be playing the Gillanes , Murphy's, Nashs and Casey's when they are fit .
Bottom line we were not a threat up front yesterday ,we were given a lesson in scoring from the Clare half and full forwards they were very efficient.
Like I said in a previous post we got out of 1b this year that was huge in my opinion so anything after that this year is a bonus , I still think we have more to offer this year but Kiely has to trust and develope the young guns and play them. Assuming we beat Carlow or west Meath then to have a showdown in Thurles against Killkenny or Galway would have any player or fan licking there lips.
Rest , re group and drive on." Still can't figure out all the focus on Dowling here. He made more impact than a lot of the other 6 forwards I thought. I'd like to see the stats to back up what people are saying. I thought he showed well and got out in front more times than others in the full forward line when many others were losing their own battles. I would say that Flanagan seems much better starting in full forward where he can make his diagonal runs out into space to receive the ball but I think its unfair and too simplistic to pick out Dowling of all the forwards on show.
Dan Morrissey and Cian Lynch aside, who battled right through, most were well below par. Unfair I think to just pick out Dowling who did as well or better than most when most of the team misfired on the day. This failing was more than just one person or positional element, there was an overall failure in terms of energy levels, execution and game plan. We have a more attritional approach to games than most and it looks like it just caught up with us. I think this young Limerick team and management can be forgiven a bad day out.
Hopefully we can learn from it and move on.
Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 433 - 18/06/2018 14:23:38
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Well beaten by the better team on the day, no complaints.
Felt we played the game on Clare's terms and this has happened the last few times we have played them, allowing them to take short puck-outs & work it up the field plays into their hands as they are well used to playing a sweeper system.
Shane Dowling is a fine hurler but will not do in a two man full forward line where a lot of ground needs to be covered, surprised they did not go with Gillane & Mulcahy. Also why move Flanagan out of full forward where he has been going well so far this year.
Was impressed with the level of intensity and physicality Clare brought which we did not match.
Management have done a good job to date and hopefully will learn for errors today
higgins (Limerick) - Posts: 256 - 18/06/2018 16:15:31
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Replying To Fitzy01: "Still can't figure out all the focus on Dowling here. He made more impact than a lot of the other 6 forwards I thought. I'd like to see the stats to back up what people are saying. I thought he showed well and got out in front more times than others in the full forward line when many others were losing their own battles. I would say that Flanagan seems much better starting in full forward where he can make his diagonal runs out into space to receive the ball but I think its unfair and too simplistic to pick out Dowling of all the forwards on show.
Dan Morrissey and Cian Lynch aside, who battled right through, most were well below par. Unfair I think to just pick out Dowling who did as well or better than most when most of the team misfired on the day. This failing was more than just one person or positional element, there was an overall failure in terms of energy levels, execution and game plan. We have a more attritional approach to games than most and it looks like it just caught up with us. I think this young Limerick team and management can be forgiven a bad day out.
Hopefully we can learn from it and move on." I'm a long standing supporter of Dowling as well and would certainly not like to see him out of the picture. I suggest that management need to create a situation for him where he can be most effective which is at full forward in a three man line which maximizes his attributes including his skill level, predatory instincts and fielding ability without asking him to do things like hare up and down the field all day. I really like the concept of a full forward line that can get at a back line and pull them asunder. Every time we play Clare, we spend most of the game sweeping and protecting around the midfield. The next time we play them, take off the hand break. Push up on their full back line and put low diagonal ball into the corners so we can attack their corner backs. That;s what Cork will try to do.
For years, we have had corner forwards that got murdered under lofted missiles but even if they caught them, they weren't technically good enough to score easily. You had a few swallows like AOS and Shane Fitzgibbon but not many. That skills deficit is now gone and we have a crop of very talented forwards that need to be developed.
Last though is why not give Flanagan a run at 11 which is his Dad's position? He's certainly built for it.
Dealer (Limerick) - Posts: 837 - 18/06/2018 17:03:02
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Before a ball was pucked in the Munster championship limerick would have taken this situation of 2 wins and a draw from the 4 matches. We will be stronger for yesterday's defeat.
Also to be in our 5th Munster minor final in 6 years is some achievement.
brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 18/06/2018 17:04:02
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Replying To PatOLogical: "Without going into details re county board ,as I have already done so a few times over past 3 or 4 years , I agree completely .
Collectively and individually they are ineffective, whether through lack of know how or the they have been rendered servile puppets.
Alas they continue bask in their paralysis and get elected for and additional 6 year term under mysterious midnight ocees devoid of any parliamentary process , such as a vote by delegates.o
Furthermore delegates have" stayed away in droves' from annual conventions and critical votes as a result of demonstrated futility in in
showing up to vote.
Hence our inability to progress in Senior County ranks ( as Waterford have and Cork seem to be on the way), is largiely due to of a vice like grip on the reins,along with reasons mentioned above. Doubtless,I Donal O'Grady (mgr) would agree with me.
To the self proclaimed highs priests on here doubtless emerge from the shadows and their high altars and quote why we "must abide by parliamentary procedure", I say, spare me your martydom, I heard it before Joe.
I'm support Martin Kiely 100% in his column. He is spot on and I commend him for his courage.
We owe it to Hannon, Hegarty ,The Caseys , Dempseys and Lynches Lynches ,English and Finns to not just "kick the bucket over" but drive it into orbit h the mother of all shake-ups.
It begins with giving delegates a reason to attend county board meetings and then assuring them that they can speak freely without recrimination tor reprimand. Thousands have taken the chance over the last 1000 or so years.
We have about 6 months to begin the dialogue at club 11 before carrying the torch to county board for 2018.
Maybe w.e are better of reverting to playing our hurling of out tufts of grass filled with cowshit rather than cowering at the feet of any master. learn
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat"
Come On Ye Boys in Green Always! (Anthony where are you..... Brosnan ,for ths who need to know who I mean)" Think some of a player bashing here is disgraceful, What Tom Condon did yest was silly, shouldnt have got involved but to be called a Fool and a clown is way over the Top, this man has given brill service to Limk over the past 10yrs and foesnt deserved to be called those names, made a mistake, isnt the first or wont be the last player to be sent off by doing something he shouldnt have done, also up to his sending off he had done well and won the 3 or 4 balls that came his way, all these players give everyting to tbe cause and deserve better on here, support the players in the bad days as well as the good days
batman (None) - Posts: 177 - 18/06/2018 20:29:43
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Limerick were beaten by a far better team yesterday. We didn't have a forward anywhere near as good as John Conon. We need a forward who will run at backs with pace and power.
hailorshine (Limerick) - Posts: 70 - 18/06/2018 21:39:29
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I suppose it was a bit of a reality check for us yesterday but Clare are a very good team and they have all Ireland medals. I wouldn't blame the management for the loss either ok a few mistakes were made but sometimes when things aren't going well on the pitch you need your players to react and adapt to the flow of the game. Clare crowded us out the field to counteract our short passing game, the sweeper killed us when we went long but the ball into the full forward line wasn't the best either and we didn't push up on Tuohy for his short puck outs. It was bit like 2013 again.
Dowling deserved to start he played himself onto the team against Waterford and he did win alot of ball in the first half but the ball into him later on was aimlessly hit in. His wides were a killer and he has to rethink his free taking style, walloping the ball up in the air trying to get it out over the stand from 30 yards out when he just needs to tap it over the bar. He is taking the accuracy out of his shots ballooning the ball just keep it direct a few feet over the bar.
Tom Condon is lucky to be on the panel as long as he has being 2013 was about his only good season. I'm not trying to kick the guy when he is down but there is no excuse for what he did, he is a long time fouling and swinging out of fellas giving away stupid frees. Straight away when he came on again straight down to Odonnell swinging off him.
Declan Hannon started off very well but he quietened off in the 2nd half, im a big fan of Hegarty but he needs to be consistent for the full game he tends to go missing at stages. I thought myself Richie McCarthy did very well on Conlan when he came on. I think Casey, English and Dan Morrissey played well under pressure for the full game. You couldn't fault the lads for effort they were beaten by the better teams on the day take on the chin and learn from it.
I thought Tony Kelly had a brilliant game for Clare we had no answer for him down in the backs getting the hooks in and up in the forward tagging on a few score. Colm Galvin played well, Duggan excellent on frees and himself and Conlon threatened all day. We made a star of Jamie Shanahan pucking aimless ball down to him letting him sweep and mop up everything. Mclnerney, Cleary and David Fitzgerald impressed me too. David Reidy wrongly getting sent off I think galvanised Clare too for the second half something like that would get a team hopping.
DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 18/06/2018 21:46:21
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Replying To hailorshine: "Limerick were beaten by a far better team yesterday. We didn't have a forward anywhere near as good as John Conon. We need a forward who will run at backs with pace and power." We scored 2-26 last week and 0-28 with 14 men the previous week. Its one defeat. We will bounce back. Its typical limerick when we win our supporters over hype and when we lose we are the worlds worst. Get behind the team and we go again. They will get to croke park this year I fully believe.
brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 18/06/2018 21:49:51
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Replying To brud: "We scored 2-26 last week and 0-28 with 14 men the previous week. Its one defeat. We will bounce back. Its typical limerick when we win our supporters over hype and when we lose we are the worlds worst. Get behind the team and we go again. They will get to croke park this year I fully believe." I agree with that. Lot of circumstances compiled yesterday to exaggerate the defeat. As kiely said regroup and refocus for July 8th and come into the AI quarter final with a win against a team who has lost a match very recently. 3rd place could prove a lot better position than provincial runner up. Limerick will be fresh and reenergised come thurles on july 15th.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 18/06/2018 22:04:44
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Replying To brud: "We scored 2-26 last week and 0-28 with 14 men the previous week. Its one defeat. We will bounce back. Its typical limerick when we win our supporters over hype and when we lose we are the worlds worst. Get behind the team and we go again. They will get to croke park this year I fully believe." What do you mean get behind the team. I have been following Limerick all my life. We were beaten by a better team.
hailorshine (Limerick) - Posts: 70 - 18/06/2018 22:16:19
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Replying To hailorshine: "What do you mean get behind the team. I have been following Limerick all my life. We were beaten by a better team." You said we need a forward to run at teams with pace and power which I feel is down grading our forwards. Over the course of the entire Munster championship our forwards have been outstanding with the exception of yesterday.
Before a ball was pucked yesterday there was 2 key stats that went against us before we arrived in Ennis which have summed up the championship
1. Teams that are out 3 weeks in a row tend to not perform on the 3rd week.
2. The home team has a 70% win rate.
Also if you add in our slight discipline problem ( which will be fixed no doubt ) the odds were highly against us yesterday.
brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 18/06/2018 22:30:05
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Replying To brud: "You said we need a forward to run at teams with pace and power which I feel is down grading our forwards. Over the course of the entire Munster championship our forwards have been outstanding with the exception of yesterday.
Before a ball was pucked yesterday there was 2 key stats that went against us before we arrived in Ennis which have summed up the championship
1. Teams that are out 3 weeks in a row tend to not perform on the 3rd week.
2. The home team has a 70% win rate.
Also if you add in our slight discipline problem ( which will be fixed no doubt ) the odds were highly against us yesterday." Our forwards have done well but that doesn't take away from the fact that we didn't have a player anything like Conon yesterday plus two players so far sent off is more than a slight discipline problem.
hailorshine (Limerick) - Posts: 70 - 18/06/2018 22:41:50
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Replying To hailorshine: "Our forwards have done well but that doesn't take away from the fact that we didn't have a player anything like Conon yesterday plus two players so far sent off is more than a slight discipline problem." John Conlon played well yesterday. Wasnt motm or anything but did his job from excellent service and a good game plan. Casey actually marshalled him well for large parts. Graham mulcahy was excellent against tipp. Flanagan was unmarkable against cork at times. Dowling was excellent against Waterford. Tom Morrissey has been extremely consistent all summer. My point is players have an off day. No point looking over the fence at the opposition. We have plenty of top level forwards who for several reasons outlined here didn't perform yesterday. I've no doubt we'll see big performances from all the above before this championship is over.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 18/06/2018 23:00:17
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Replying To daveboy: "John Conlon played well yesterday. Wasnt motm or anything but did his job from excellent service and a good game plan. Casey actually marshalled him well for large parts. Graham mulcahy was excellent against tipp. Flanagan was unmarkable against cork at times. Dowling was excellent against Waterford. Tom Morrissey has been extremely consistent all summer. My point is players have an off day. No point looking over the fence at the opposition. We have plenty of top level forwards who for several reasons outlined here didn't perform yesterday. I've no doubt we'll see big performances from all the above before this championship is over." I agree fully. I actually fancy us to go in under the radar now and beat what looks like will be Kilkenny in a Quarter final clash. No need for too much motivation for Kilkenny after Yesterday and Nowlan park last year. With Peter Casey to come back into the fold also our forwards will be a threat.
It shouldn't be forgot either that yesterday with 6 mins to go we were only 4 points down and some wrong decision making and a few bad wides inflicted a lot of that 11 point defeat. We aren't that bad. Limerick are a very young team. Clare are more seasoned side with the spine of there team there in 2013. Limerick will be a lot stronger going forward after yesterday.
brud (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 18/06/2018 23:35:19
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