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Replying To legendzxix: "One problem there is that the Tailteann then cannot start until the finals are complete. County boards want the Tailteann started as soon as possible to minimise the time from provincial knockout to Tailteann starting.
In a partial draw:
Provincial winners (Seed 1) could be drawn at home to Seed 4.
Provincial runners-up (Seed 2) could be drawn against Seed 3, with a separate draw for home advantage.
Rounds 2 and 3 then can remain open for home advantage by luck of the draw.
The current problem is provincial runners up being overly rewarded and the draw before the finals. Solve those 2 problems and all should be more reasonably ok." That's a fair criticism. I don't have the answer for that close to the current system.
If I'd more flexibility I'd change a few things.
National league would be February and March but unlinked from the All Ireland. Provincial to All Ireland club championship would be played in this window. NFL would be purely a preparation tournament again.
April would be the start of the Provincials.
I'd have the All Ireland as 3 tiers.
2 groups of 6 for the Sam Maguire, 2 groups of 5 in the other tiers.
The Bottom 2 tiers can start the weekend of the Ulster/Leinster finals as there will be byes anyway.
In each tier top of group goes straight to the semifinal with 2nd and 3rd placed teams going to the quarterfinals.
The All Ireland final would be played on the 2nd Sunday in August but it'd be fine for club action because the Provincial club championships don't have to be facilitated before year end.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4697 - 05/06/2026 12:31:45
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Replying To Expertinall: "So number of games to win a provincial is irrelevant? All Ireland would quickly lose its gloss, and the league would become the major prize to win, fairer and better competition, and everyone treated the same." No its not relevant. It never has been relevant. We have a provincial system and it has served us well. Our GAA culture is built on it for both club and county. You know this but your prejudice does not allow you to recognise that.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 541 - 05/06/2026 12:40:57
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I've tried to float the following idea before:
Ulster and Leinster are double branch championships as they have a full set of 4 quarter finals. Munster and Connacht are single branch championships as they have less than 4 quarter finals.
OPTION A:
Only runners up from double branch championships are allowed to qualify via the provincial route along with the 4 winners. OR...
OPTION B:
Semi finalists from double branch championships are also allowed to qualify via the provincial route, e.g. Down this year for making the semi finals of a "double branch" championship.
It's up to Ulster and Leinster delegates at the end of the day to bring motions forward. Put up or shut up!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 05/06/2026 12:50:31
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From Option A above:
Seed 1 - Provincial winners.
Seed 2 - Ulster and Leinster runners up, and 2 highest league ranked.
Seed 3 - 9 to 12 on league ranking.
Seed 4 - 13 to 16 on league ranking.
Round 1:
Seed 1 home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 v Seeds 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Rounds 2 and 3:
Home advantage by luck of the draw. Provincial winners already sufficiently rewarded in Round 1.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 05/06/2026 12:59:17
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Replying To Expertinall: "So number of games to win a provincial is irrelevant? All Ireland would quickly lose its gloss, and the league would become the major prize to win, fairer and better competition, and everyone treated the same." Number of games to win a provincial is not irrelevant. More games in Ulster than in Connacht or Munster and a better standard overall. Similarly more games in Leinster, currently lower standard overall than Ulster, but with Dublin's level dropping a bit it's more competitive. But this year it's arguably better not to reach a provincial final and have a 5 week gap to an away game in the All Ireland qualifiers, than reach a provincial final and the benefit of a home draw isn't so good against a more rested and prepared team. Depends on the tean's plans for the year and also how they value a provincial win.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8605 - 05/06/2026 13:11:28
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Replying To legendzxix: "I've tried to float the following idea before:
Ulster and Leinster are double branch championships as they have a full set of 4 quarter finals. Munster and Connacht are single branch championships as they have less than 4 quarter finals.
OPTION A:
Only runners up from double branch championships are allowed to qualify via the provincial route along with the 4 winners. OR...
OPTION B:
Semi finalists from double branch championships are also allowed to qualify via the provincial route, e.g. Down this year for making the semi finals of a "double branch" championship.
It's up to Ulster and Leinster delegates at the end of the day to bring motions forward. Put up or shut up!" No need to shut up as they are not complaining!
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3442 - 05/06/2026 13:25:50
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Replying To legendzxix: "I've tried to float the following idea before:
Ulster and Leinster are double branch championships as they have a full set of 4 quarter finals. Munster and Connacht are single branch championships as they have less than 4 quarter finals.
OPTION A:
Only runners up from double branch championships are allowed to qualify via the provincial route along with the 4 winners. OR...
OPTION B:
Semi finalists from double branch championships are also allowed to qualify via the provincial route, e.g. Down this year for making the semi finals of a "double branch" championship.
It's up to Ulster and Leinster delegates at the end of the day to bring motions forward. Put up or shut up!" I think that the reality is that those who decide on format recognise the importance of the Provincial Championships and have always built their All ireland structure around same and continue to recognise performance in them. They also continue to treat all 4 equally and haven't allowed any bias influence that process.
The current system also recognises league performance plus caters for a two tier system which is also good.
The reality for any county is that the path of least resistance to an All Ireland final is to keep winning Championship matches and that's as it should be. I dont believe that they will bin the current system. Not for a few years anyway. They will tweak it though and one of those tweaks will be differentiating between winning and losing a Provincial final and the timing of that first round draw. They may go further and seed the league teams too but the first part will definitely be fixed quickly imo.
As it stands if you get to a Provincial finsl and win your home game in round 1 you are one win away from a CP appearance. Thats the prize for winning /reaching a Provincial final. That applies to all 4 provinces. You can complain about Kerry all you want but Donegal are in that position now (aa are tyrone) because they beat the provincial winners so the system has proven itself in that regard also. Kerry got the advantage due to them and Donegal took it from them. Thats how the system should work. Tidy up the anomolies and lets see where this brings us.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 541 - 05/06/2026 13:28:48
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From Option B above: (similar enough)
Seed 1 - Provincial winners.
Seed 2 - Ulster and Leinster runners up, and 2 highest league ranked.
Seed 3 - 9 to 12 on league ranking.
Seed 4 - 13 to 16 on league ranking.
(Connacht and Munster finalists, and Ulster and Leinster semi finalists seeded on league ranking.)
Round 1:
Seed 1 home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 v Seeds 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Rounds 2 and 3:
Home advantage by luck of the draw. Provincial winners already sufficiently rewarded in Round 1.
Example this year:
Seed 1: Roscommon, Kerry, Westmeath and Armagh
Seed 2: Monaghan, Dublin, Donegal and Mayo.
Seed 3: Galway, Cork, Meath and Louth.
Seed 4: Derry, Tyrone, Down and Kildare.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 05/06/2026 13:52:16
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Replying To legendzxix: "I've tried to float the following idea before:
Ulster and Leinster are double branch championships as they have a full set of 4 quarter finals. Munster and Connacht are single branch championships as they have less than 4 quarter finals.
OPTION A:
Only runners up from double branch championships are allowed to qualify via the provincial route along with the 4 winners. OR...
OPTION B:
Semi finalists from double branch championships are also allowed to qualify via the provincial route, e.g. Down this year for making the semi finals of a "double branch" championship.
It's up to Ulster and Leinster delegates at the end of the day to bring motions forward. Put up or shut up!" Yes, definitely better than over rewarding counties, that have done very little to reach a certain point. If nothing is done, a natural separation will formulate, and 'busier' counties will choose their preferred route. If they haven't already......
Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 142 - 05/06/2026 13:57:22
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I think that the reality is that those who decide on format recognise the importance of the Provincial Championships and have always built their All ireland structure around same and continue to recognise performance in them. They also continue to treat all 4 equally and haven't allowed any bias influence that process.
The current system also recognises league performance plus caters for a two tier system which is also good.
The reality for any county is that the path of least resistance to an All Ireland final is to keep winning Championship matches and that's as it should be. I dont believe that they will bin the current system. Not for a few years anyway. They will tweak it though and one of those tweaks will be differentiating between winning and losing a Provincial final and the timing of that first round draw. They may go further and seed the league teams too but the first part will definitely be fixed quickly imo.
As it stands if you get to a Provincial finsl and win your home game in round 1 you are one win away from a CP appearance. Thats the prize for winning /reaching a Provincial final. That applies to all 4 provinces. You can complain about Kerry all you want but Donegal are in that position now (aa are tyrone) because they beat the provincial winners so the system has proven itself in that regard also. Kerry got the advantage due to them and Donegal took it from them. Thats how the system should work. Tidy up the anomolies and lets see where this brings us." It is wrong that provincial runners up can earn guarantee of a home game by winning 1 match. That part has to be sorted out.
Taking a step back:
Seed 1 - provincial winners
Seed 2 - provincial runners-up, acknowledging fair complaints about that.
Seed 3 - league qualifiers 1 to 4, e.g. Donegal, Mayo, Meath and Louth.
Seed 4 - league qualifiers 5 to 8, e.g. Derry, Tyrone, Cavan and Kildare.
4 of 7 league qualifiers this year were from Ulster. The league qualifiers are doing what they are designed to do and Ulster is benefitting. Drawing Seed 1 at home to Seed 4 rewards winning the province. Drawing Seed 2 v Seed 3 with separate draw for home advantage puts provincial runners up on a potential tough away trip and takes away overly rewarding provincial runners up.
Kerry came from behind at half time in the Munster final. Had the result not gone Kerry's way - drawing a Seed 3 like Donegal away could be the jeopardy. Donegal are being rewarded in that scenario for qualifying through the league and getting home advantage by luck of the draw for being in the top 4 of the 8 league qualifiers. This helps to smooth out the imbalances that are there.
Example Round 1
Seed 1 home v Seed 4:
ARMAGH v Derry
KERRY v Kildare
WESTMEATH v Cavan
ROSCOMMON v Tyrone - Seed 1 at home v Seed 4 not a gimme as seen in this example but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Seed 2 v Seed 3 with home advantage by luck of the draw:
Donegal v CORK
MONAGHAN v Mayo
Meath v GALWAY
DUBLIN v Louth
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 05/06/2026 17:06:55
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Replying To legendzxix: "...
From Option A above:
Seed 1 - Provincial winners.
Seed 2 - Ulster and Leinster runners up, and 2 highest league ranked.
Seed 3 - 9 to 12 on league ranking.
Seed 4 - 13 to 16 on league ranking.
Round 1:
Seed 1 home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 v Seeds 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Rounds 2 and 3:
Home advantage by luck of the draw. Provincial winners already sufficiently rewarded in Round 1." You are just not going to acknowledge the fact the provincials are not equal and giving the same advantage for winning massively different comps is unfair.
JimB1991 (Donegal) - Posts: 191 - 05/06/2026 17:22:35
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Number of games to win a provincial is not irrelevant. More games in Ulster than in Connacht or Munster and a better standard overall. Similarly more games in Leinster, currently lower standard overall than Ulster, but with Dublin's level dropping a bit it's more competitive. But this year it's arguably better not to reach a provincial final and have a 5 week gap to an away game in the All Ireland qualifiers, than reach a provincial final and the benefit of a home draw isn't so good against a more rested and prepared team. Depends on the tean's plans for the year and also how they value a provincial win." I agree entirely, and teams will assess if winning a province is beneficial to them, and train accordingly. Some might even mind injured players, by taking the non provincial route. Whichever, if the imbalance remains, I can see this separation of the two competitions growing, as some have just too easy a route to the same place.
Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 142 - 05/06/2026 18:50:23
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "No its not relevant. It never has been relevant. We have a provincial system and it has served us well. Our GAA culture is built on it for both club and county. You know this but your prejudice does not allow you to recognise that." If it's not relevant, then I doubt anyone will ever mention it again? We'll see....
Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 142 - 05/06/2026 18:56:21
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Anyone know where I can get previews from radio shows or podcasts about the football games this weekend??
Dothesimplethingswell (Sligo) - Posts: 71 - 05/06/2026 19:07:32
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Replying To JimB1991: "You are just not going to acknowledge the fact the provincials are not equal and giving the same advantage for winning massively different comps is unfair." Going over old ground. All provinces, just like county championships, can only produce 1 winner. A championship is there to determine the champion! Who would have guessed that!
Also you know like - I'm fine with the idea of provincials being separate from the All Ireland. Where is the motion from Ulster and Leinster delegates...
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 05/06/2026 19:19:04
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Replying To legendzxix: "...
From Option B above: (similar enough)
Seed 1 - Provincial winners.
Seed 2 - Ulster and Leinster runners up, and 2 highest league ranked.
Seed 3 - 9 to 12 on league ranking.
Seed 4 - 13 to 16 on league ranking.
(Connacht and Munster finalists, and Ulster and Leinster semi finalists seeded on league ranking.)
Round 1:
Seed 1 home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 v Seeds 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Rounds 2 and 3:
Home advantage by luck of the draw. Provincial winners already sufficiently rewarded in Round 1.
Example this year:
Seed 1: Roscommon, Kerry, Westmeath and Armagh
Seed 2: Monaghan, Dublin, Donegal and Mayo.
Seed 3: Galway, Cork, Meath and Louth.
Seed 4: Derry, Tyrone, Down and Kildare." With my tweaks below - i.e. Rd 1 Qual losers get another chance; and Prov Champs need to win a Champs Playoff Rd before Front Door advance to AI QFs - progress from the Prov stream is less rewarding, but more of a level playing field for all:
- Only 2 teams advance directly to 'AI QFs' (2 unbeaten Prov Champs);
- 2 Prov Champ losers to 'AI Last 14';
- 4 Prov Final losers to 'AI Last 24'; and
- 24 Prov QF teams (win or lose, ALL play in 'AI Last 32' (so extra Uls/Lein Rd is neutralised).
______
1) Prov Prelim & QF Rds (no change)
2) Prov SF 16 & Rd 1 Qual 16 (ALL with back door - latter for 1 more rd & former for 3 more rds)
3) Prov Finals 8 & Rd 2 Qual 16 (Rd 1 Qual & Prov SF losers)
4) Prov Champs 4 Playoffs & Rd 3 Qual 20 (Rd 1 & 2 winners & Prov Final losers)
5) Rd 4 Qual 12 (Rd 3 winners & Prov Champs losers)
6) AI QFs (Prov Champs unbeaten 2 & Rd 4 winners)
7) AI SFs
8) AI Final
KO Rds are:
Rd 2 Qual (8 go out);
Rd 3 Qual (10 go out)
Rd 4 Qual (6 go out);
QFs, SF, F (4,2,1 go out).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3442 - 05/06/2026 20:23:11
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Replying To JimB1991: "You are just not going to acknowledge the fact the provincials are not equal and giving the same advantage for winning massively different comps is unfair." Realistically we are never going to get the provinces balanced out, so the reward must be removed from all?
Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 142 - 05/06/2026 21:39:47
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Whammo and Division 4 counties will disagree but a 16 team knockout playoff would be a good fit.
8 automatically qualified:
Provincial winners (4)
Ulster and Leinster runners up (2)
Defending All Ireland winners (1) - higher league ranked Connacht or Munster runner up could take this spot if the All Ireland winner qualifies through their province.
Tailteann winner (1) - higher league ranked Connacht or Munster runner up could take this spot if the All Ireland winner qualifies through their province.
Connacht and Munster runners up should be guaranteed at least a playoff spot. Ulster and Leinster semi finalists should also be guaranteed at least a playoff spot. The remaining playoff spots going on league ranking and a Tier 3 winner from the previous year. The counties missing out on the playoffs can enter a Tier 3. The counties losing the playoff round can enter Tier 2.
4 winners: Roscommon, Kerry, Armagh and Westmeath.
2 runners-up: Monaghan and Dublin.
1 Tailteann winner: Kildare.
1 All Ireland winner Kerry qualified through Munster as well so Connacht runner up Galway ranked above Cork taking the last automatic spot.
Example playoffs on the Saturday after the Leinster and Ulster finals:
DONEGAL v Down
Wexford v MAYO
CORK v Offaly
Laois v MEATH
LOUTH v Sligo
Clare v DERRY
TYRONE v Carlow
Longford v CAVAN
GAA+ could have the Round 1 draw then on the Saturday evening after the 8 playoffs have been played. All Round 1 games then the following weekend:
Provincial winners (Seed 1) at home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 on league ranking v Seed 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Seed 1: Kerry, Roscommon, Armagh and Westmeath.
Seed 2: Donegal, Mayo, Galway and Meath.
Seed 3: Cork, Dublin, Monaghan and Louth.
Seed 4: Derry, Tyrone, Cavan and Kildare.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 06/06/2026 08:45:01
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Replying To legendzxix: "Whammo and Division 4 counties will disagree but a 16 team knockout playoff would be a good fit.
8 automatically qualified:
Provincial winners (4)
Ulster and Leinster runners up (2)
Defending All Ireland winners (1) - higher league ranked Connacht or Munster runner up could take this spot if the All Ireland winner qualifies through their province.
Tailteann winner (1) - higher league ranked Connacht or Munster runner up could take this spot if the All Ireland winner qualifies through their province.
Connacht and Munster runners up should be guaranteed at least a playoff spot. Ulster and Leinster semi finalists should also be guaranteed at least a playoff spot. The remaining playoff spots going on league ranking and a Tier 3 winner from the previous year. The counties missing out on the playoffs can enter a Tier 3. The counties losing the playoff round can enter Tier 2.
4 winners: Roscommon, Kerry, Armagh and Westmeath.
2 runners-up: Monaghan and Dublin.
1 Tailteann winner: Kildare.
1 All Ireland winner Kerry qualified through Munster as well so Connacht runner up Galway ranked above Cork taking the last automatic spot.
Example playoffs on the Saturday after the Leinster and Ulster finals:
DONEGAL v Down
Wexford v MAYO
CORK v Offaly
Laois v MEATH
LOUTH v Sligo
Clare v DERRY
TYRONE v Carlow
Longford v CAVAN
GAA+ could have the Round 1 draw then on the Saturday evening after the 8 playoffs have been played. All Round 1 games then the following weekend:
Provincial winners (Seed 1) at home to Seed 4.
Seed 2 on league ranking v Seed 3, separate draw for home advantage.
Seed 1: Kerry, Roscommon, Armagh and Westmeath.
Seed 2: Donegal, Mayo, Galway and Meath.
Seed 3: Cork, Dublin, Monaghan and Louth.
Seed 4: Derry, Tyrone, Cavan and Kildare." The problem with this play off round is it is a one off game and shocks can happen. In your sample draw Donegal are playing Down and we all know what happened when they met in Ulster a few weeks ago. So a Down win would consign Donegal to the Tailteann Cup. Not good for the All Ireland[with Donegal being one of the favourites] and definetely not good for the Tailteann Cup. Throw in another shock [or 2] and the whole thing becomes unbalanced. On paper a play off round is not a bad idea as long as the top sides progress.
edu (Mayo) - Posts: 133 - 06/06/2026 14:13:31
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Replying To edu: "The problem with this play off round is it is a one off game and shocks can happen. In your sample draw Donegal are playing Down and we all know what happened when they met in Ulster a few weeks ago. So a Down win would consign Donegal to the Tailteann Cup. Not good for the All Ireland[with Donegal being one of the favourites and definetely not good for the Tailteann Cup. Throw in another shock [or 2] and the whole thing becomes unbalanced. On paper a play off round is not a bad idea as long as the top sides progress."]Shocks will of course happen. The Tailteann Cup can be for the 8 counties who miss out of the playoffs.
A new mid Tier Cup can be for the 8 playoff losers including any heavyweights that come crashing into it.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9789 - 06/06/2026 15:45:40
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