National Forum

Joe McDonagh Cup 2025

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Some very complimentary posts and all appreciated.

I was very serious at the beginning of the competition when I said that should we would reach the final stages and if we did I was more than confident that we would see it out I was very confident of that. The game with Dublin is not a matter of life or death. Next season we will not be relegated, we are confident of that.

With the exception of the Kerry game all our games were won by a margin of on average 10 points.

Cuhullain (Kildare) - Posts: 303 - 10/06/2025 19:49:18    2616524

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Replying To Past hurler:  "You'd hope Kildare can kick on in the hurling.

Their footballers are at nothing anyway, playing in the Tailteann cup."
No reason why Kildare can't be strong in both codes and I believe they will. Too much talent in both football and hurling to simply let it fritter away. The two Brians are building something good with their respective teams

LilywhiteGael (Kildare) - Posts: 124 - 10/06/2025 22:04:04    2616552

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Replying To Viking66:  "When you appointed Derek Mcgrath over your minor hurlers your Chairman thought he was getting Ken Mcgrath. You need your Board to step up and give hurling proper support. You've played in AI finals in Hurling, and won a SenIor Hurling All-Ireland."
I don't have much inside information but I think this story is well known to be ******. A slip of the tongue in a county board meeting that came to light because of Eddie Brennan's rant a few years back

Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 72 - 11/06/2025 10:39:55    2616600

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Replying To Bon:  "Footballers should be the curtain raiser for the hurlers on Saturday."
I second that - and believe the game has sold out in appreciation of the hurlers more so than the football.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 465 - 13/06/2025 11:06:10    2617148

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Replying To Overdahill:  "I don't have much inside information but I think this story is well known to be ******. A slip of the tongue in a county board meeting that came to light because of Eddie Brennan's rant a few years back"
I do have inside information.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 13/06/2025 14:19:43    2617198

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Replying To LilywhiteGael:  "No reason why Kildare can't be strong in both codes and I believe they will. Too much talent in both football and hurling to simply let it fritter away. The two Brians are building something good with their respective teams"
Good playing population in both too. And decent overall population. No reason Kildare can't be successful in both.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 13/06/2025 14:21:24    2617200

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Replying To brianb:  "I second that - and believe the game has sold out in appreciation of the hurlers more so than the football."
The Hurling match is in the McCarthy cup the footballs only in the tailteann cup too

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2392 - 13/06/2025 17:59:43    2617257

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Replying To burdizzo:  "What does it do for them? It exposes them to top-level hurling. What do you want it to do for them? Kildare are good, and there's every chance they'd beat Offaly, even Wexford on an off-day. They're big, strong, and very fit. The game against Dublin will tell a lot. I don't expect they'll win, but I don't expect them to be hammered, either. As for Laois? Sadly we're stuck at a level and have stood still as a hurling county while all around us have passed us out - Carlow, Kildare, Offaly, Westmeath, Dublin. It takes massive resources, top-class coaching, properly-channelled ambition, good leadership, and belief to harness a hurling tradition. We have very little of those ingredients and I think we're going nowhere for the next few years. We used to be a decent dual county, but now we're pretty irrelevant at both codes."
I think the question was more around repeating the same comments that pundits keep saying - that to benefit they need more than one year at the top level and that will develop hurling more. However all these people who say that haven't figured out a way to give them more time while not denying the winners of the Joe Mc to play the in Leinster the following year. Munster won't allow anyone into their competition what do we do expand Leinster to 8 and two groups of 4 but at the end of the day someone has to be relegated and the same question will be raised again.
One year is better than none and if they have the right structures in place, they should come back up again.
Kildare in hurling is a testament to how much demographics plays in the game but if its not harnessed then it's a wasted opportunity. Look at the US and UK and how if the organisation had been a bit more forward thinking the games could have flourished. Sadly Wexford suffers the opposite as it more an influx of retirees and young people heading the opposite direction.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2005 - 14/06/2025 08:44:48    2617301

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The Leinster question really is should two of Laois, Carlow or Antrim be part of an expanded Leinster championship? What is a fair level of expansion for the preliminary quarter finals to be scrapped?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8939 - 14/06/2025 11:27:26    2617316

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The Leinster question really is should two of Laois, Carlow or Antrim be part of an expanded Leinster championship? What is a fair level of expansion for the preliminary quarter finals to be scrapped?"
Correct.

That is the question. As I've said numerous times on here there seems to be a misconception that the Joe McDonagh Cup is a lower tier competition in the same way as the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard etc. whereas in fact the Joe McDonagh Cup is part of the Liam McCarthy competition, the third leg of the stool, albeit designed as a developmental leg.

So if the same year direct link between Joe McDonagh and the Liam McCarthy is to be broken then that's the end of the Joe McDonagh (which would be ridiculous as it's a great competition every year) as Christy Ring is and always was the second tier competition. Carlow, Leix etc were already in the Leinster championship (qualifier group) when Joe McDonagh was introduced as a national level, rather than provincial, development competition for weaker Liam McCarthy counties.

Personally I would agree with taking away the preliminary quarter final for beaten McDonagh finalists, as evidenced by the beating Tipp are giving Leix the appetite is gone for beaten McDonagh finalists, but definitely I'd leave the winners have their same year preliminary quarter final, as evidenced by the interest in Kildare in seeing their lads have a crack at Dublin on home turf today. Two years ago Carlow enjoyed the same and gave the dubs a great game before the ref who doesn't give square balls, ever, did us.

The preliminary quarter finals each year should be McDonagh winners v Munster third, and Munster fourth v Leinster third.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1596 - 14/06/2025 14:37:59    2617350

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The Leinster question really is should two of Laois, Carlow or Antrim be part of an expanded Leinster championship? What is a fair level of expansion for the preliminary quarter finals to be scrapped?"
Laois, Carlow and Westmeath should be in an expanded Leinster. I suppose Antrim too, even though they aren't a Leinster county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 14/06/2025 14:46:52    2617354

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Correct.

That is the question. As I've said numerous times on here there seems to be a misconception that the Joe McDonagh Cup is a lower tier competition in the same way as the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard etc. whereas in fact the Joe McDonagh Cup is part of the Liam McCarthy competition, the third leg of the stool, albeit designed as a developmental leg.

So if the same year direct link between Joe McDonagh and the Liam McCarthy is to be broken then that's the end of the Joe McDonagh (which would be ridiculous as it's a great competition every year) as Christy Ring is and always was the second tier competition. Carlow, Leix etc were already in the Leinster championship (qualifier group) when Joe McDonagh was introduced as a national level, rather than provincial, development competition for weaker Liam McCarthy counties.

Personally I would agree with taking away the preliminary quarter final for beaten McDonagh finalists, as evidenced by the beating Tipp are giving Leix the appetite is gone for beaten McDonagh finalists, but definitely I'd leave the winners have their same year preliminary quarter final, as evidenced by the interest in Kildare in seeing their lads have a crack at Dublin on home turf today. Two years ago Carlow enjoyed the same and gave the dubs a great game before the ref who doesn't give square balls, ever, did us.

The preliminary quarter finals each year should be McDonagh winners v Munster third, and Munster fourth v Leinster third."
Allowing 4th placed teams will be very debatable. Cries of "where's the jeopardy?!" will invariably follow.
One option though if there was a controversial strong push for including 4th placed teams is that the two 4th placed teams would clash in a preliminary playoff. If the Munster team win - they would travel away to 3rd from Leinster with the McDonagh winner at home to 3rd from Munster. If the Leinster team won - they would travel away to 3rd from Munster and the McDonagh winner would be at home to 3rd from Leinster.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8939 - 14/06/2025 15:01:43    2617361

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Correct.

That is the question. As I've said numerous times on here there seems to be a misconception that the Joe McDonagh Cup is a lower tier competition in the same way as the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard etc. whereas in fact the Joe McDonagh Cup is part of the Liam McCarthy competition, the third leg of the stool, albeit designed as a developmental leg.

So if the same year direct link between Joe McDonagh and the Liam McCarthy is to be broken then that's the end of the Joe McDonagh (which would be ridiculous as it's a great competition every year) as Christy Ring is and always was the second tier competition. Carlow, Leix etc were already in the Leinster championship (qualifier group) when Joe McDonagh was introduced as a national level, rather than provincial, development competition for weaker Liam McCarthy counties.

Personally I would agree with taking away the preliminary quarter final for beaten McDonagh finalists, as evidenced by the beating Tipp are giving Leix the appetite is gone for beaten McDonagh finalists, but definitely I'd leave the winners have their same year preliminary quarter final, as evidenced by the interest in Kildare in seeing their lads have a crack at Dublin on home turf today. Two years ago Carlow enjoyed the same and gave the dubs a great game before the ref who doesn't give square balls, ever, did us.

The preliminary quarter finals each year should be McDonagh winners v Munster third, and Munster fourth v Leinster third."
What would be the point of the Munster Round Robin at all then? So many weeks of hurling just to eliminate one county?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 14/06/2025 15:01:50    2617362

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Allowing 4th placed teams will be very debatable. Cries of "where's the jeopardy?!" will invariably follow.
One option though if there was a controversial strong push for including 4th placed teams is that the two 4th placed teams would clash in a preliminary playoff. If the Munster team win - they would travel away to 3rd from Leinster with the McDonagh winner at home to 3rd from Munster. If the Leinster team won - they would travel away to 3rd from Munster and the McDonagh winner would be at home to 3rd from Leinster."
Starting to take up more and more weekends when really there's a need to be playing less weekends then though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 14/06/2025 15:09:29    2617364

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Replying To Viking66:  "Starting to take up more and more weekends when really there's a need to be playing less weekends then though."
Not at all.
SATURDAY JUNE 07
Preliminary playoff:
Clare v Wexford (Clare 1-17 : Wexford 1-23 from the league for example purposes.)
Munster final:
Limerick v Cork
SUNDAY JUNE 08
McDonagh final:
Kildare v Laois
Leinster final:
Kilkenny v Galway
SATURDAY JUNE 14
Preliminary quarter finals:
Tipperary v Wexford
Kildare v Dublin
Again, it'll be very controversial to allow 4th placed teams a back door tunnel through to the All Ireland series. Cries of "no jeopardy" inevitable! Just merely musing over what it would look like.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8939 - 14/06/2025 15:33:03    2617370

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Replying To Viking66:  "What would be the point of the Munster Round Robin at all then? So many weeks of hurling just to eliminate one county?"
Because there are big rewards for finishing higher up the table in Munster. Top 2 qualify for what is an effective All Ireland quarter final (Munster final), winner going straight into AI semi, loser getting another bite in an actual AI quarter so there's plenty of incentive to finish top two in Munster.

Third pace then gets arguably the easiest preliminary AI quarter final v McDonagh winners so that's an incentive to come third whereas fourth place gets a tougher preliminary AI quarter final v third placed Leinster which is tougher.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1596 - 14/06/2025 15:44:06    2617371

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Because there are big rewards for finishing higher up the table in Munster. Top 2 qualify for what is an effective All Ireland quarter final (Munster final), winner going straight into AI semi, loser getting another bite in an actual AI quarter so there's plenty of incentive to finish top two in Munster.

Third pace then gets arguably the easiest preliminary AI quarter final v McDonagh winners so that's an incentive to come third whereas fourth place gets a tougher preliminary AI quarter final v third placed Leinster which is tougher."
Most Munster counties just want to get into the AI series. A Munster title is a nice bonus ok. A Leinster title for most Leinster counties is a goal in itself. And why should whoever finishes 4th in Leinster be eliminated if 4th in Munster isn't? Galway were 4th in Leinster last year, we were 4th this year. We both beat Clare well in the League this year. Waterford weren't even in 1a this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 14/06/2025 16:39:52    2617377

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Not at all.
SATURDAY JUNE 07
Preliminary playoff:
Clare v Wexford (Clare 1-17 : Wexford 1-23 from the league for example purposes.)
Munster final:
Limerick v Cork
SUNDAY JUNE 08
McDonagh final:
Kildare v Laois
Leinster final:
Kilkenny v Galway
SATURDAY JUNE 14
Preliminary quarter finals:
Tipperary v Wexford
Kildare v Dublin
Again, it'll be very controversial to allow 4th placed teams a back door tunnel through to the All Ireland series. Cries of "no jeopardy" inevitable! Just merely musing over what it would look like."
In theory a team could lose 3 games in their Province and still win the AI? Don't you think that's a bit of a joke?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16310 - 14/06/2025 16:43:14    2617379

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Replying To Viking66:  "Most Munster counties just want to get into the AI series. A Munster title is a nice bonus ok. A Leinster title for most Leinster counties is a goal in itself. And why should whoever finishes 4th in Leinster be eliminated if 4th in Munster isn't? Galway were 4th in Leinster last year, we were 4th this year. We both beat Clare well in the League this year. Waterford weren't even in 1a this year."
I'm a bit baffled as to what people think the purpose of competitions is. The entire idea is that teams play a series of games and the teams who win the most progress and the teams who win the least are eliminated.

But in the GAA we have a lot of people who feel that eliminating teams is unfair and everyone should advance to the next round anyway, rendering the previous games meaningless.

Then on top of this we have the snobbery of "No teams should be eliminated, but if anyone has to be eliminated it should be the Leinster teams".

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1685 - 14/06/2025 17:15:22    2617385

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The Leinster question really is should two of Laois, Carlow or Antrim be part of an expanded Leinster championship? What is a fair level of expansion for the preliminary quarter finals to be scrapped?"
However if Hurling people in Munster are serious about developing the game the Munster Championship has to expand or disappear but it will not happen, none of the top teams care anything about developing Hurling outside their own county.
All the talk is just that. Someone said on the TV commentary that Cork winning an All Ireland would be good for Hurling, well that tells you where there loyalty lies

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2005 - 14/06/2025 19:35:55    2617442

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