Roger (Meath) - Posts: 480 - 25/10/2016 18:10:14    1928954

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1677 - 25/10/2016 18:41:45    1928963

Spot on Castlebravo.
Also the 44 people at the second board meeting who voted to overturn the original approval of wholesale changes need to examine their consciences. Not one attendee on the night or since had the wit to propose a more phased in alternative motion so were stuck with 18 senior teams in Meath as well as at IFC, Jun A and lower grades. This situation will succeed in maintaining poorer standards of competition and sustaining mediocrity for the forseeable future. SSeems the people who originally introduced the idea of 18 senior teams in Meath etc and the shortsighted 44 who voted for no change (by their actions and votes) are happy to let things remain as they are even though this has been condemned for years by many including the eminently astute Sean Boylan.
If this defeatist attitude continues, lets just go the whole hog and
1 promote every Junior club to Senior irrespective of their onfield ability,
2 forget about merit or competition and
3 stop kidding ourselves about wanting to improve or progress championship structures.

meath1967 (Meath) - Posts: 56 - 25/10/2016 19:05:45    1928968

aces (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 25/10/2016 19:08:44    1928969

Meath should take a look at other club championships. Why not mimic the Cavan model whereby second teams don't compete in the intermediate or junior championships?

Have 16 teams in the senior, intermediate and junior championships - all first teams. Club's second/third teams have their own championships. I wouldn't bother with 4 groups of 4 either as they do in other counties like Cavan, Donegal, Mayo, etc - knockout championship with a back-door or if that isn't exciting enough for everyone then straight knockout.

The current format means the strong are only getting stronger and the weak weaker, e.g. Donaghmore/Ashbourne's second team is intermediate but clubs like Boardsmill, Kilbride, Moynalty, Slane, etc are 2 grades beneath that competing against Donaghmore/Ashbourne's third team. What club's benefit from that other than the big one?

Such a format would also ensure the intermediate and junior championships are fairer as you wouldn't have teams playing the early rounds with strong teams.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 25/10/2016 19:09:33    1928970

cowardlyasafox (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 25/10/2016 19:47:25    1928989

This thread is talking about the championship formats and why the changes proposed failed. We have posters here's belittling junior clubs and those that are struggling at the minute. Saying tough luck, if a senior team wants to pack their second team in the first round of the JFC that's just the way life works, suck it up.
The reality is that there are 52 adult football clubs in this county and coming up with a system that proportionally inflicts most pain on those outside senior - that's 34 clubs (65%) is not going to fly.
If the key to change is keeping the junior and intermediate clubs on board as the article says, then telling them to like it or lump it is going to get nothing done. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
To effect change there is going to have to be a payoff for junior and struggling intermediate sides. That's how politics works and that's what this is.
Change needs to happen, but it is going to take the removal of second teams or a rule that no first team can operate below JFC B level for it to happen.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 480 - 25/10/2016 20:12:52    1928995

in all fairness if my clubs first team could not managed to make it out of junior C than I would seriously consider not putting on the boots. No disrespect but some of the bigger clubs could put in an over 37's team and win it, so complaining about 2nd teams is a joke.

We have all said many times now that the best solution would be to group all 2nd teams in their own group's for the various junior grades, 3rd teams should be fair game as far as I'm concerned.

This would allow the weaker first teams in junior grades to compete against each other to let the best team compete against the 2nd teams at a later date when they have lost a few to their respective first teams.

This is a Nationwide problem that will always be embedded in the GAA. Too many old men with old ideals. I would be all for it that if your club's First team operates in Junior B and below, their vote at county level should be counted as a half. They should not influence the intermediate and senior clubs as much as they currently do.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 651 - 26/10/2016 07:54:33    1929039

Surely if first team club is in Junior B/C/D then they have to look at themselves? Blaming 2nd teams etc is a poor excuse..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 26/10/2016 10:14:27    1929060

weekendwarrior (Meath) - Posts: 27 - 26/10/2016 10:26:10    1929066

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 651 - 26/10/2016 10:34:21    1929071

The clubs bottled this one even though it was well explained to them, but to be honest the new structure was really only a step in the right direction, it wasn't a giant leap.

1 relegation per division is not enough and 12 teams qualifying for the KO stages is far too many.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 26/10/2016 11:04:14    1929087

Looking at that St. Brigids/O'Mahony's group, I see Dunboyne's 2nd team hammered St. Brigids in the last round.

If you're losing to a 2nd team in the first round, losing to a 2nd team in the fifth round, and losing to every first team you play in between, how can you honestly claim to belong in that division?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1677 - 26/10/2016 12:02:33    1929112

The analysis provided goes to prove that the world would continue spinning and clubs would have just got on with things. Removing the Tones, Balinlough & Duleek from senior would have been harsh but fair, given they finished bottom of their respective groups. it would have left the senior & intermediates grade ultra competitive next year.
I agree that it gets harder for clubs the further down you go, for example you'd have Meath Hill relegated and K-Wood in the same mix potentially. I say tough luck, that's your level, build yourself back up. I'm sure those clubs would celebrate a junior B championship just as much as a junior A, as seen by the 'Woods victory in Div 4 league at the weekend.

There's no doubt that change was needed and it was a massive own goal by the clowns. It wasn't the silver bullet solution but it certainly was a step in the right direction. Theres no one in their right mind going to put forward a new solution now, which is a pity.

This nonsense about it being unfair for junior b clubs to be in groups with clubs 2nd teams is doing my head. It's going to be tough the first year when the cull happens but that's your level, get over it and if you think you're too good for the lower grade, prove it.

GoalsWinGames (Meath) - Posts: 307 - 26/10/2016 12:33:30    1929121

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1382 - 26/10/2016 12:58:27    1929136

Maybe a tad bit off topic, but who are the lads who voted this proposal in and then out in the same year without even giving an alternative to the proposal?

No offence but these lads are probably all auld lads years 50+ how can they vote for the whats best in the championship? Would it not be better to to put a vote to the players, the lads actually involved in the championship?

Uncle_Fester (Meath) - Posts: 217 - 26/10/2016 13:46:03    1929160

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 651 - 26/10/2016 14:26:45    1929183

A lot of people here seem to think senior clubs put out a strong second team in the early days of the championships in order to stay up. This is untrue. As the championship is so long first team players get injured, lose form, have a ban, go on holidays etc and the club has no option but to bring up a player from the second team. This kills the second team in the club and players and management on these teams are genuinely disappointed to lose many of their best players often for 5 or 10 minutes of senior football.

Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 26/10/2016 14:45:09    1929194

I think the proposal was a good one but only if it was phased in. this to me is just common sense. If a good club has a bad year and only finish 4th out of 6 then they go down. this was ridiculous. do you really think tones aren't good enough for senior. they just had a bad year and a tough group. as for the second teams, I actually think they would prefer to have there own competition than play in junior A and have feck all chance of winning. as was said on another thread was that a second team has only won it once in like 30 or 40 years. personally I think the best option is to have it the same as the b league where the starting 15 of the first team for the first game of the champ can't play second team. this would stop senior first team players being stuck on the bench and give there subs a chance to play football so that there ready to come in when needed and stop teams being severely weakened as the competition progresses

de_man (Meath) - Posts: 192 - 26/10/2016 15:33:51    1929219

I'd use Skryne as a good example. Their junior team had a fine run in the JFC this season eventually bowing out in the semi final on a score line of 4-11 to 0-7. I've been to many semi finals across the country and have rarely seen such a one sided score line. Would they have lost by 16 points a month or two earlier? They had three players who helped them get that far who were damn close to making an appearance in the Keegan Cup decider so were they ever really of the junior calibre. Is this scenario unfairly skewing the competition - in my opinion it is and in hindsight was such a landslide victory worthwhile preparation for Dunsany meeting a strong Bective side in the decider.

Another example is where someone earlier in the thread makes the point about these 2nd teams being bet by 20 points sure would they not be relegated - this is missing the point of the matter which is that they're not shipping heavy defeats in round 1 or 2 but in the later rounds when they're already safe for another season. Overall it's a another unfair skew to the competition I feel. Simonstown would be a good example of this as if they'd fielded the team they fielded in the last round the whole way through they'd be Junior B next year instead of Clonard.

I believe Westmeath have a system where all second teams play off in one division and only meet a junior team proper at knock-out stages by which time the majority of the players moving up a level should be weeded out. Worth a try I think.

The_Ripper (Meath) - Posts: 184 - 26/10/2016 16:26:24    1929237