EDUARDO

Certainly hope king hasnt been dropped. really dont think he has been would have heard by now. we cant afford not to have the likes of king in there considering hes probably in the top 3 defenders in meath. real classy player will bounce back from a few sub standard performances last year

wallace (Meath) - Posts: 62 - 24/03/2010 10:25:42    597110

I see he's back playing wing back with Dunshaughlin after his travels. Was anyone at the Walterstown game, how did he do? Im just wondering because he was abroad with B Farrel and he is back in the Meath squad and King doesnt seem to be, this is why i thought he might be dropped.

eduardo (Meath) - Posts: 36 - 24/03/2010 10:38:37    597123

ye fair point ed know where your coming from id imagine tho hes just been given extra time to build up his fitness base and will be back in at the end of the leauge

wallace (Meath) - Posts: 62 - 24/03/2010 11:02:36    597153

Is Farrell definatly back? He was on the terrace on sat night! Maybe they are bout just training with the panel till they reach a level of fitness & then will be included in the match day squads.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 24/03/2010 12:59:16    597311

The Meath defence, as a unit, are fairly strong. As a defender, tackling is key and in the last year or so, there's been a noticeable improvement in tackling, in both the forwards and the backs. This is probably down to the influence of Robbie O'Malley, arguably the greatest exponent of the tackle in Gaelic Football. Dispossessing an opponent by slapping the ball out of his hands, shouldering him off the ball, or simply knocking him off his stride to force an error can all be considered sub-skills of the tackle. Even the Darren Fay special of anywhere but my man's hands is a type of tackle. I have not read one message on here suggesting any of the things mentioned are a problem for the backs. The low concession of frees is also very positive, given the "cuteness" of some forwards in the tackle nowadays. That should not be under-estimated.

As I say, they are grand playing as a unit. However, when things become disorganised and players get dragged away from positions, others get exposed and the organisational structure is lost. Exactly what happened with Moyles last year. Meath were able to frustrate Kerry for long periods but as soon as Walsh and Moyles were left on their own on the edge of the square, it was all over for Meath. Same with McKeigue and Macken. I think they are alright playing in the backs when the organisation structure is maintained but when they are left on their own with one half decent player, they're simply not able to cope. Against a team like Kerry who have six exceptional forwards, there are always going to be times when the Meath backs get badly exposed. Against lesser teams, the backs can defend as one frustrating teams, and in the end most likely forcing errors and dis-possesions, possibly what happened against Mayo in the last twenty minutes last year.

Lastly, while I agree that the backs are well drilled in preventing other teams from scoring, they are not very well drilled in what to do once they win the ball. Like a lot, I watch in besumement at their attempts to work the ball as far as midfield. Too many short hand passes inevitably leads to someone getting caught out. Now I'm not sure if its the backs' fault for not doing what they're told, the midfielder's and half-forward's fault for not demanding the ball or just management as whole having failed to recognise this obvious shortcoming. But there is a problem here and it's always been a problem for EOB. The return of Cormac McGuinness might lessen the problem but it needs to be looked at.

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 24/03/2010 20:38:48    597903

I read an article in the Chronicle recently and I'm nearly sure that it stated that King had agreed to meet up with the squad at a later point when he got his fitness back. If Farrell has made an earlier return to the Meath panel it's because he made an earlier return to club football, simple as that. No conspiracy theories please.

Pigonastick, Owen Mulligan has never been used as a target-man by Mickey Harte. He plays as the second forward off Stephen O'Neill, occasionally swapping this role with Martin Penrose who links up play dropping deeper. Tyrone feed him the ball with quick diagonals onto the 20. Harte flirted with playing a target-man at 14 when Cavanagh lined up there but it was a brief affair. Cavanagh's much more effective out the field and even this year, with O'Neill injured, the comparitively small Penrose is playing at full.

You might get away with three big target men at junior level but not in Croke Park. Even when Kerry played their twin towers formation of Walsh and Donaghy, Cooper was the nimble, corner forward playing off them. Yes, he's very good in the air but that doesn't make him a target-man. Last year, Meath persisted with the long-ball tactic, playing three full-forwards clustered together around the square, occasionally angling their runs out wide. For the most part it was successfull. Yeah, we could have had even bigger men in there, (although Brian Farrell and David Bray are both good fielders) but I don't see what difference it would have made. Lumping the high-ball down the throat of an inter-county full-back is not going to get you scores.

Going back to Ard Ri's point about the long-ball game. Well, there's a big difference between Eamonn O'Brien's application of this tactic and Jack O'Connor's or even O'Mahony's. O'Brien clearly had a change of heart about two things in the wake of the defeat to Kerry. Firstly, he must have realised that Moyles didn't have the quickness or even the instincts to play full-back at this level so he brings in Macken. Secondly, he's abandoned the long-ball game. After the semi-final, even his own players were critical of the tactic. I fear he may have thrown the baby out with the bath-water. Meath just don't have the personell to play the kind of running game that Cork do.

Some great points made by Loyal2TheRoyal as well.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 25/03/2010 15:22:07    598593

Should read: "Last year, Meath persisted with the long-ball tactic, playing three full-forwards clustered together around the square, occasionally angling their runs out wide. For the most part it wasn't particularly successfull. Yeah, we could have had even bigger men in there, (although Brian Farrell and David Bray are both good fielders) but I don't see what difference it would have made. Lumping the high-ball down the throat of an inter-county full-back is not going to get you scores."

Silly me.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 25/03/2010 15:45:50    598642

I think what we are lacking is a "playmaker" in the half forwards in the mould of Trevor Giles. Our problems seem to come from moving the ball from the
half back/half forward line and putting in good ball for the forwards to usel. Most recent games, last year or so, we get our share of mid-field possession,
just not quality ball getting into the forward line. We either move it to slowly out of the half back line with short hand passes enabling opposition to get back into
position, or, we move it to quick with an aimless kick down the field.

Going back to the Kerry match with the long balls in, if memory serves me right, a huge amount of long ball going in was poor, a good few
went straight over the end line, must look at match again. With better delivery in, that tactic may have worked.

bogger from meath (Meath) - Posts: 226 - 26/03/2010 09:34:43    599454

Ollie, Burke made sigerson all-star team.. fair play to him but for me sigerson football these days is about strenght and fitness and does not suit skill and pace. Heavy pitch , cold weather every one behind the ball and defenders come out on top, fair play to Burke he's a good footballer, but in my opinion he's no intercounty corner back or half back at the level Meath should be at.

EOB obviously recognoises this as he consistently picks a defender in the half forward line, one from Kenny,O'Connor,Burke, McEnarney, this then leads to handpassing across the half back line.

Last year against Kerry and Mayo we did kick the ball in fast, unfortunately it was kicked in from Crawford,Meade and now Ward which tends to be a lottery as opposed to giving the forward a 70/30 chance of winning.

It most be fustrating for the inside forwards to rarely get a good foot pass, Stephen Bray has gone backwards and I would put alot of it down to fustration as the chap is a class act.

Also to those lads shouting for King, I would suggest you wont see him in Meath jersey again, would have like to see him in O'byrne cup at full back given his experience and comfort on the ball, will be extremely suprised if we see him in a meath jersey this year or ever.

Re match last Sat, how did Cian Ward last the whole game while Joe was taking off. Joe was poor but still scored 2 points from play. Ward barely felt the weight of the ball. I'm starting to sound like I dislike the Ward chap, far from it, I just dont get how he seems to be never taken off, always started and best offers absolutley nothing, at least last year he was scoring frees. Meanwhile our Meath player of year and his extremely promising younger brother are left cold on the sidelines. Also how can anyone think Moyles was good last Sat night.

Northmeathman (Meath) - Posts: 284 - 26/03/2010 10:44:33    599525

Bogger, you are correct about the long ball been over hit and going over the endline in the Kerry match last year. Also the way the long ball was used was poor. You can play a long early ball into space in front of a player in which case 90% of attackers will have a good chance of gaining possesion but this idea of just lumping a high ball in on top of defenders and attackers doesn't work.
As an example if you look the county senior final in 2007 where Seneschalstown were lumping the ball in on top of Joe and Kevin Reilly and Reilly was easily able to break the ball away from Joe and basically frustrate him but if you look at the replay the ball was played in front of Joe which gave him an oportunity to get to the ball first and Reilly could do nothing about it except foul Joe and we know what the result of that was.

Diego (Meath) - Posts: 1205 - 26/03/2010 11:01:32    599545

Ollie I think you have misinterpreted what i am saying. Not every ball in to the full forward line has to be lumped into the sky but it would be an option as the 3 players are all mobile you can play the ball in on front of them as well! Its just my opininon at the minute that a number of the forwards built up to be good intercounty corner/fullforwards are either over-rated or not on form at the minute. There is very little evidence of a organised game plan in this meath side at the minute and this option would atleast give the the side a shape and format they can play to! There isn't a great playmaker in midfield that is going to pick beautiful passes to an average sized full forward line with no real blistering pace. Atleast this way you have strong forwards that would be difficult to get off the ball! It is not the most talented squad Meath have ever had and it strikes me that EOB has had the majority of the squad available to him all year with few players involved in Sigerson football and not really much in the way of searching for new players done.....but still has little idea of who or how he wants to play them.
Farrell is not a full forward and struggled in 07 there, he can take a score alright but not a good target man based oin size os speed, Ward does not contribute from play at county level and he is to slow, Stephan Bray has not hit his former heights for some time at county level and i'm not convinced he can win suffcient ball at corner forward when he is a marked man at county level now! Queeney has been the only player that has made an impact through the O'Byrne cup and the league in the ff line. He has pace, mobility and can take a point. Where are Meaths options at for corner forward? If they play Ward or Bray on current form you are hoping for something to happen come championship rather than having a structured plan in place!

As for Mulligan not being a target man for Tyrone i disagree like i said previously it doesn't need to be a high ball lumped into the clouds to be considered a target man, but he most certainly is a prime target for tyrone in terms of winning possession in the ff line. He has strength, pace, he is good in the air and he is extremely difficult to take off the ball. Yes he does gain alot of possession from darting runs across the full forward line and has dropped deep at times to gain possesion and this is exactly what i think Meath should be looking at from Sheridan, Queeney and O'Rourke in there as they can all score from distance and are mobile enough also!

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 26/03/2010 11:42:23    599596

"Northmeathman
County: Meath
Posts: 135

...in my opinion he's no intercounty corner back or half back at the level Meath should be at.

EOB obviously recognoises this as he consistently picks a defender in the half forward line, one from Kenny,O'Connor,Burke, McEnarney, this then leads to handpassing across the half back line. ."

But in the modern game typically two of your half-forwards are effectively defensive players. I don't think O'Brien's selecting any of these lads specifically to cover for Burke's failings. Tyrone for example have Dooher and Joe McMahon at 10 and 12, Kerry have Galvin and Donncha Walsh. In Italian football they have specific titles for the roles that players take up on the pitch like carrileros or medianos. I don't think we have the vocabulary in the GAA to even describe lads like Dooher or Trevor Mortimer but they certainly aren't wing-forwards.

Why he picks Mickey Burke on the wing I do not know. Presumably he's looking for someone to run the ball more and has lost faith in King. Wing-backs are almost playmakers nowadays and tend to be natural footballers, good kickers like Davey Harte, Tomas O'Se or Andy Moran. Because the opposing half-forwards are dropping back and defending zonally it's often the wing-back who has the time and space to pick a pass. Think about how many passing moves go through Tomas O'Se when Kerry are playing.

The only way to beat the blanket defense is to move the ball quickly and clinically, by-passing the the opposition's half-forwards before they can drop back in front of their own forty. One way to do it, like Kerry or Mayo, is to switch play off the foot with quick diagonals, so they'll deliberately feed Tomas O'Se or the deep-lying Galvin. There's a certain amount of hand-passing involved but it's just enough to keep posession. Kerry often look to switch the ball to the side of the pitch where the opposition are under-manned. The other way to do it is to build a half-back line like Cork's, very pacey, very athletic and strong runners. They don't have to kick it, they can literally out-run the half-forwards moving the ball quickly out of the hands. Cork rarely kick the ball untill the're on the opposition's forty and then it's a quick kick into the corner-forward. This is why Michael Cussen is now a hurler.

Now compare to Meath. Meath will happily launch the long-ball from their own half, and too often, as Northmeathman pointed out, the individuals doing the kicking are not the greatest exponents of this art. You don't see Seamus Scanlon spraying passes around for Kerry, he'll feed the ball to Galvin instead. Yet, how many times did Brian Meade launch the ball long onto the full-forward line where Meath were often out-numbered four to three? We don't have passing midfielders so that puts extra pressure on the half-back line to supply good ball but that means selecting half-backs who can play the ball off the boot.

I would rather see Meath modelled on Kerry or Mayo than Cork.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 26/03/2010 17:24:38    600177