I'd b surprised if mckeigue was left on murphy next weekend. He's the type of ff that would suit moyles or even macken much better!

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 22/03/2010 12:50:49    594878

We could try whole scale surgery now but do we have the talent to replace the current crop. It's only 8 weeks to championship time and with the probability of only 2 competitive matches before the Offaly game it may not be a good idea at this stage. Some good news is that Kevin Reilly is back playing some ball and came on as a sub for O'Mahony's at the weekend. In defence of Moyles, he had a decent game on saturday night, well at least he has the foresight to kick the ball early into the forwards not like many of the others who just want to handpass. Our inability to build up a decent scoreline is a big worry for me. 13 or 14 points will not win too many championship games IMO. It's this inability that has us in such a lowly position in the league and although we are now back in the promotion race our poor scoring difference probably will come against us. Hopefully we can pick up maximum points against Donegal and Kildare and promotion would be on the cards which if we could achieve this it would be great on the back of a poor to average league campaign so far.

Diego (Meath) - Posts: 1205 - 22/03/2010 13:39:46    594964

some lads here need to put on the jersey themselves and prove their points..... it was not a perfect performance but it was a gutsy performance, and yeah the talent may not be there but everyone in the team gave it 100%. my top 5 of the night where lewis, kenny, burke, mc guinness & o'rourke.
a definite improvement from thurles

Tara_Kings (Meath) - Posts: 128 - 22/03/2010 14:15:58    595001

Northmeathman
County: Meath
Posts: 134

Right now we have the worst set of backs I have ever seen in a meath jersey, they would all struggle to make any top 16 intercounty team.

What a load of nonsense. There's no doubting that Meath are currently blessed with an abundance of full-forwards but to suggest that there are no quality backs in the county is just a load of twaddle.

There are good man-marking backs in Meath. McGill has earned himself quite the reputation at club level. We know Harrington's a tidy footballer. In Davy Dalton we might be seeing a real talent emerge. Mickey Burke was named at corner-back on the Sigerson All-Stars in 2008. Not bad for a junior footballer.

Think back to the Kerry game. We pressed them, frustrated them, kept them off the scoreboard for long periods of play and it was disciplined too. You don't see this team conceding too many frees which is a good sign.

There are concerns about squad depth, no doubt. We still haven't groomed a full-back to cover or even challenge Reilly for his place. O'Brien, like many Meath managers in the past fell back on Moyles to cover a problem position. Moyles doesn't have the pace out of the blocks play full-back at inter-county and arguably you could say that despite his height he doesn't have the physique either. Tommy Walsh muscled him off the ball a couple of times last year. I'm sure management recognised this and began considering alternatives. O'Brien took a gamble on a big, traditional full-back in James Macken. Has it paid off?

As for claiming that for anyone to suggest picking Moyles at 3 is a disgrace? Well, for a county-board to turn around to a manager and sack him a year into the job after getting the team to an All-Ireland semi-final, now that would be a disgrace. I wasn't thrilled with his appointment at the time and I never held any real expectation that he would win titles with Meath but I think a little perspective is in order here.

The footballing talent is there. It's up to O'Brien and co. to pick the best players for the job and coach them to do it effectively. The biggest concern supporters have about this defense is their inability to work the ball up the field quickly and clinically. Now, footballers in the royal county have not suddenly forgotten how to pass the ball. This, to me, is clearly something that should have been addressed through coaching. It's not a recent development either. Moyles, King and O'Connor to name but a few, all ran the ball into cul-de-sacs at various points last year. Schoolboy stuff. It should have been sorted out in the 2009 NFL. I thought when Sean Kelly came on board that he would at the very least make this a priority, what's happened? It's becoming increasingly clear that O'Briens not up to the pace of modern football and that the whole coaching set-up in Meath seems to be decades behind that of Kerry or Tyrone.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 22/03/2010 16:42:40    595199

I think Ollie that the basic problem is one which has been mentioned on these pages many times before. Incidentally it is the same problem which beset Eamon Barry's tenure as manager. That is the short passing game which is so alien to Meath football. Only one club successfully adopted this style and won championships with it. Yes you guessed it, it was Walterstown in the late seventies. You probably don't remember them but they were a joy to watch in full flight. The O'Briens, Barry's and O'Sullivans, and the rest could do this as effectively as Kerry or Dublin of that era. Of course Jack O' Shea was coaching them at the time so that's hardly a surprise. They would hand-pass the ball at speed right down the pitch and nearly always got a close in score at the end. Remember Eamon Barry's way of playing. He instructed the lads not to shoot unless they were certain of a score and that that could be best done from close to the 20 mtr line. The good Meath teams used to break oppositions hearts by regularly kicking points from fifty mtrs or more. I'm sure you have stood on the terrace frequently cursing them for not putting boot to ball and clear their lines. Yes I agree that senselessly hoofing the ball out of defense is just stupid however has the art of foot passing, which won us four All Irelands under Boylan, been lost in Meath. I dare say it has not been as we see it week in week out in club matches. Let's return to Meath style football and we will get better results. To finish I think we have as good a bunch of players as we always had with plenty of potential. However,
many, like McGill, are not on the panel;
a number on the panel are getting little or no game time;
some who are getting game time are not up to it; and
we are playing the wrong brand of football.
Given that so many things are wrong it is a wonder that we are still doing as well as we are despite the poor results at times.

The real Árd Rí (Meath) - Posts: 990 - 22/03/2010 21:34:09    595718

Everybody seems to highlight the problems we have with the backs, however I believe the backs have not been the problem this year (so far at least). I agree that Meath have very talented forwards however nobody has performed even close to their capabilities in any of the league games. In my opinion S. Bray and C. Ward should be dropped for the next game since they have wasted a huge number of chances in the last few games and the only thing they added on the pitch was towards the wide tally. Both are very talented players however seem to miss on form and in some cases on commitment.

Against Laois of the forwards only O'Rourke (quite impressed for his first full game), Kenny (not a natural forward though) and Lewis played a decent to a good game.

Leaving some of the established players on the bench for a game or two might just improve matters and at least allows some other players to show their skills.

Brian Meade played well when he came on against Laois too and should get a chance against Donegal.

Green_and_Gold (Meath) - Posts: 17 - 23/03/2010 12:54:47    596085

Green And Gold -That would be a clever act to leave your best forwards on the bench and your say about all the missed and then you say how well O'Rourke played. I think I must have been at a different match as O'Rourke kicked a few very poor balls when he should have been passing. Now O'Rourke is a good player (and I think he will be on the team in a key position if he remains uninjured) just as some of the orther forwards and to improve your shooting as a forward the best place to be is on the team playing. Meath present style unlike the successful style of the past revolves around too much hand passing with most of it backwards and side ways

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 23/03/2010 13:16:01    596109

Browncows

would you say that cian ward was one of the best forwards we had in the last few games?

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2010 15:16:49    596282

browncows, exactly my point, neither S. Bray nor C. Ward played well in any game during the League campaign. Keeping them in the team despite their terrible form has not improved their game. So maybe leaving them out for a game or two might be the wake-up call they need.

Green_and_Gold (Meath) - Posts: 17 - 23/03/2010 15:35:23    596308

browncows, neither S. Bray nor C. Ward played well in any game during the League campaign. Keeping them in the team despite their terrible form has not improved their game. So maybe leaving them out for a game or two might be the wake-up call they need.

Green_and_Gold (Meath) - Posts: 17 - 23/03/2010 15:42:40    596318

browncows, just to add to my comments. I agree that O'Rourke did miss some chances but scored some good points and played considering he is only back from injury. In addition the supply that he got was not great, Meath did not use the high ball into him that would suit him better. I agree with you though that we should use the long ball into the forwards especially since we have big and strong forwards availabe (Shane, Joe, Queeny).

Green_and_Gold (Meath) - Posts: 17 - 23/03/2010 15:45:35    596323

I agree with the idea that Meath need to revert to the long ball game to get the best results possible from a limited squad. I think the best possible full forward line Meath could pick would be Queeney, Joe and O'Rourke and let the ball in. I have previously said on here before that i think some of the high profile forwards in Meath are over hyped and many cannot win there own ball. This full forward line would not have that problem and all can get sores. The half forward line should be O. Lewis, S Bray and P. Byrne these guys would have the work rate to track back as well as get up to support the full forward line and and pick up any breaks that come from long balls. B Sheridan would make a good replacement for any of the front 3 if they were having an off day. Infact I think giving himself and Joe game time together in every match is a good idea as they seem to be almost telepathic at times. Its a system that you need to work on before championship though. I just think Meath are pottering along trying to be seen to find new players and trying to find the best 15 without any real game plan...admittedly i did not see the Laois game! I think O'Brien should know more about what his championship side are at the moment. If you look at the other top teams at the moment in the league they are attempting to pick there best 15 and play to a championship style. Meath seem happy to say look its only March...time is slipping by and there seems to be little in real terms of having an organised side with a clear idea of how they are playing. In the back 6 there should be only 1 position in doubt and thats fb but the team still changes every week. The midfield should be straight forward it should be Crawford and Meade as meade is the only player they have in terms of a box to box midfielder meath have. The half-back line in my opinion should be kenny, Mcguinness and Mc Anarney but the later seems out of favour at the moment. The full back line is all over the place at the minute Macken and mckeige seem to thave been given most game time of any1 and both seem likely no to make the cut which means the alternatives have not got near enough game time...hardly makes sense! Meath need to pick a team with a playing style in mind and start perfecting the art. Come on the Dubs need good competition in Leinster again and Kildare won't give it to us so get the fingers out :)

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 23/03/2010 15:47:47    596329

Exactly green & gold. Peader got a cuple of nights on the bench & look at how he responded on sat night when he came on!

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2010 16:03:15    596353

Pigonastick

with that fullforward line, you would b leaving 2 of them men in the corner where they would b totally wasted. I agree in a target man for ff, but not 2 lads like that in the corners. They would be much more use out further facing tge goals & all can score from distance. Couldn't see them racking up too much in the corners. Then your half forward line contains only one player who will consistsntly provide you with scores, & he has been tried at chf already & had very limited success there.

As for the dig about Meath having a limited panel, I disagree completly, Meath have more options this year than any other in almost a decade.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2010 16:35:51    596408

Who are your on form corner forwards Jinxie? The same could be said about ward he is not a corner forward! Armagh, Kerry Tyrone have all played more than 1 big ball winner in the full forward line as long as they have potential to kick points it doesn't matter where they line up in ff line! Bray played his best football for Meath as a half forward since going to the corner he doesn't get on the ball enough and has struggled to make space for himself of late! I don't think Joe has a high enough work rate for chf and i still maintain he plays in spurts! He can get away with this close to the goals if he produce a goal and a couple of pints from his spurts but at chf you can't go missing! The half forwards need to be told what there role is in this system you don't need them to score all that much! They are there to get the ball in and follow up with support simple as! Same way as Dec OSullivan so often takes a ball at pace from Donaghy setting up numerous goals. This is a limited squad its not a dig. When has the full back line ever been so weak for meath? Same in midfield...it ok but hardly outstanding? And I really think alot of the forwards are over hyped as they can't win there own ball! This option would at least guarantee that you would win a fair share of ball in a scoring position. I'm no here to wind anyone up I am under no illusions as to where the current Dublin panel lies at the minute also.

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 23/03/2010 16:52:41    596448

Jinxie -no he was not one of the best and he has to be scoring frees to be worth starting place. However the accuracy of a forward is also related to confidence that is gained from playing matches (confidence is important for all players but more important for forwards). Bray relies on skill and speed while Peader relies more on workrate and tenacity. Workrate relies less on confidence and I thought Peader did very well when he came on and looked sharp. The idea of playing 3 big fullforwards will not work in Croke Park and if you look at the successful teams (Meath had Geraghty and Murphy), Kerry had Donaghy and Cooper while Tyrone had Kavanagh and a smaller player in full forward lines that were successful. You need players with varied skills in most lines and especially in the fullback and fullforward lines

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 23/03/2010 18:09:46    596632

Pigonastick

bray most definatly did not play his best football as a half forward. Granted in 07 when he won his allstar he moved in & out, but he has definatly been much better in the corner! As for your idea of playing 2 full forwards as corners forwards, we will will have to agree to disagree because with that current Meath panel I don't see anything being gained by it.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2010 19:58:00    596773

Yeah kerry played donaghy, walsh and cooper bearing in mind cooper is 5'11 and good under a high ball as well! Tyrone often play kavanagh and mulligan both considered target men rather than lightweight corner forwards, Armagh played Ronan clarke steven mcdonnell and McConville all good target men because of their physical attributes. Joe, Queeney and O'rourke are all mobile enough to play there so i think it would work. At least it would give the team a shape and an idea of what they are about!

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 23/03/2010 20:10:59    596787

Pigonastick

I agree with the comparisons u are making to Kerry Tyrone & Armagh, but, my problem is that those 3 teams had scores coming in abundance from all 3 half forwards, at least 1 midfielder & all of them had attacking half backs that regularly scored. Meath don't have that. Very very rarely do points come from outside our 6 forwards, & the half forward line you suggested contains only 1 scoring forward. I just think that for Meath, we would be putting all our eggs in the o e basket with regards scoring & make it very easy for other teams to read us & counteract that.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2010 20:44:53    596849

Lads whats the story with Caoimhin King? He had a few (2) bad games last year and he's dropped? surely he still deserves his place, at least on the panel! People are very quick to forget how good he is. He is certainly better than some of the backs currently in the panel.

eduardo (Meath) - Posts: 36 - 24/03/2010 09:02:38    597041