Great footballer may he rest in peace

Meath4Life (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 15/03/2010 19:35:47    589022

Ok where to start. meath football at an all time low? maybe but i think not. wer going through a slump, playing badly. the problem was we over-hyped our o byrne cup win over dublin. we had more or less a 1st team out whereas the dubs like thm or loathe them had an experimental team out. the dubs learned more from that game than what we did. the likes of ollie lewis and queeney to an extent havent recpoverd their form since that game. wev not played well at all in the league. our big problem is the full bcak line. not scapegoating anyone but i think that is our weakness at the moment. i know moyles was cleaned v kerry last year but at least he had a presence. he is needed in the defence. brendan murphy has been a great goalkeeper for meath, but i think that he has had his day. we have 2 goalkeepers at the moment that are young and are worth taking the chance on. our forwards are just not working hard enough at the moment. peadar is needed. i know its the league, but his work-rate is needed. the 2 brays as they proved v westmeath are corner men. the automatic choices there in my opinion. we need a response versus laois saturday night. the thing is we have a very talented panel. i hope that brian sheridan and caoimhin king and brian farrell are not off the panel. they have pedigree. so heres to the respionse sat night??

db9 (Meath) - Posts: 283 - 15/03/2010 19:59:02    589066

The biggest problem we have is that our defenders are incapable of fluently moving the ball out of their own half.
They get to the 50 yard line and have to stop and go sideways across the field, then maybe backwards for a bit, then sideways again.
We've been watching them do this for god knows how long.
It slows everything down and allows the opposition to get players back in numbers, leaving no space for the forwards to attack.
We are an infuriating team to watch.

Coylers Elbow (Meath) - Posts: 1075 - 15/03/2010 20:06:57    589080

Millhouse Nice to have someone agreeing with me for a change. Another strength we had in past years was that if we were as much as 3 points ahead with twenty minutes or so to the end we were never caught. can only think of one exception to this and that was the 1988 league final when the Dubs got a penalty to draw the game. e fairly made amends for this lapse the following day. Certainly if we were6 points up at half time the opposition would be heading for their cars. Why can we not defend a lead. Yes the backs are at fault for not defending properly but many scores are originating with wayward passes from the forwards who seem to think that the opposition will allow you to walk the ball into the net. Previous teams were able to score from distance, an art hat now seems to be dead in Meath. Indeed apart from Seneschalstown most clubs seem to have lost this art.

On another matter I am very sad to hear from MightyQuinn that one of my boyhood heros has passed away. Peter was one of the finest midfielders of the sixties. I can still vividly remember my first visit to Crokepark for the Leinster final of 1967 when we beat Offaly and then went onto beat Mayo and Cork to win Sam. Peter had an amazing ability to leap above shoulder height of his opposite number and do this from a standing start. He scored a goal against Mayo in the Semi which effectively finished the match as a contest. Even before Mick Burk of Cork was "gently" encouraged to sit on the bench by Pat( Red ) Collier, Peter had been giving him a torrid time. He played for Meath in Australia and I remember listening to Mick O'Hehir's radio commentary on St. Patrick's morning 1968. In that game I remember Mick suddenly burst out that an Australian player had just walked up to Peter and hit him a punch to the face which knocked him out. The Aussies couldn't take it that a bunch of amateurs were beating them in their own country. Nothing much has changed in over 40 years. Ballinabracky and Meath will miss Peter. Meath football could do with a few of his caliber right now.

The real Árd Rí (Meath) - Posts: 990 - 15/03/2010 21:19:31    589205

Interesting stat from Sunday's game. Mickey Burke, playing at centre back, kicked the ball once in 70 minutes, everyting else was from the hand. The managements tactics are killing this team and if the truth be told its unwatchable. You can hear the frustration from the supporters growing at every match and I cannot imagine how the players are feeling. I know this is not the time to be changing managers but I am starting to lose faith in O'Brien, the one point win over Westmeath just masked over the major problems that are there at the moment. One thing that sticks in my mind was the way he almost apologised for being in the AllIreland semi last year, we are from Meath we don't need to apologise to anyone.

DaveW (Meath) - Posts: 75 - 16/03/2010 09:33:32    589348

Whether Meath football is at an "all time low" I cannot say, it is safe to say that we are not anywhere near the level we think we should be at and also the rest of the country think we should be at. In my opinion there are a number of issues at play.

1.Our players are simply not as good as they were in the period 85-2001. Very few of the current crop would make any of those panels let alone the teams. Granted there were some mediocre players on those panels but they were lucky in that there were some outstanding players whom Boylan fashioned the team around. O'Brien doesn't have that luxury and this must be kept in mind when making any critique of him.
2.Eamonn O'Brien does not seem to know what his best team is and seems to play players in unusual positions and persist with players many of us would have dropped. However, with point 1 in mind he seems to be trying out all options and checking out players in the league which he cannot really be blamed for. Considering the lack of top class players and injuries he should be given the benefit of the doubt. I remember some very poor league performances during Boylan's tenure that would have only been rescued at the death by some class from O'Rourke or Geraghty.
3.We must ask ourselves why the really top class players haven't come through in recent years. I am talking of the calibre of a Giles, Geraghty, O'Rourke, Fay, Flynn, O'Connell, O'Malley etc. To me the musical chairs at the top of the county board hasn't helped one bit and they are too busy putting out fires to clearly evaluate why our under age teams are consistently uncompetitive.
What needs to be done is to get new direction from the top at county board level. That is not easy to implement with the current structures for voting by club delegates etc. I think that the county board should appoint a Games Development Director or similar. That would be a paid part-time or full time post and would not be directly coaching as Dudley etc is doing. The position would be on a contract and openly advertised. The purpose of the role would be to identify the way forward so that we can maximise the talents of our young people in football and also hurling. There should be parameters set regarding funding etc and a commitment that the recommendations that this person comes up with.
In my opinion this needs to be done asap as we are fast becoming also rans in GAA. The great teams of the 80's and 90's made us feared and we had great support. If something isn't done about it from underage up then those days will be long gone and we will be equivalent to our neighbours Louth, Westmeath and Cavan winning a few games every year and perhaps getting to the final stages in the championship with luck being the biggest factor.

trim1 (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 16/03/2010 09:49:35    589363

You can have all the talent in the world as individuals, but if it is not applied as a "team" on the field then there will will be no real success as has been happening to Meath for the last nine years. An attitude that says Div.3 football would not be any harm and that we "are terrified" of playing Kerry in AI semi tells all you need to know about present set-up. We need someone to inject some 'steel' and pride into the players,they all do their best individually on the field but there is no Team psychology at work. Hope seems to be the main ingredient these days, hope we beat Laois, hope we beat Offaly, well it wont get us anywhere against Dublin at full strenght if we get that far. EOB is probably too nice a person for getting 'down and dirty' with Meath. We better get used to being second rate because that is the reality. I think McGeeney or someone similar is what we need . With no World Cup to bother about and Meath looking backwards its going to be a quiet summer for this Meathman at least. Lets put Hope and Luck together, maybe something good might happen, by chance, possibly,you never know, anything can happen on the day, etc. ad infinitum.

nemlodoak (Meath) - Posts: 170 - 16/03/2010 14:49:28    589757

nemlodoak
County: Meath
Posts: 64

589757 You can have all the talent in the world as individuals, but if it is not applied as a "team" on the field then there will will be no real success as has been happening to Meath for the last nine years.

Yeah, spot on. First of all the notion that the current squad contains no real talent of note, or at least none compared to the late eighties, late nineties Meath teams is complete nonsense. This is the best batch of forwards to emerge for some time and we finally have midfielders who can partner Crawford in the centre. Add to that the availability of seasoned campaigners with a lot of experience at inter-county level, (even if many are still relatively young) and I don't see why we shouldn't be challenging for All-Ireland honours. Counihan built a team using the same blend of raw youth and veterans like Canty and Lynch and very nearly took them to an All-Ireland victory. In fact had Counihan the variety of forwards available to him that O'Brien had Cork would more than likely have put Kerry to the sword last September.

Secondly, whingeing about lads being played 'out of position' is a moot point at inter-county level. Players are selected for their ability first and foremost. All of Boylans teams were characterised by talented individuals adapting to specific roles and being coached to excel in them. Brendan Reilly, Geraghty, Curtis even Evan Kelly were all technically defenders at club level. Trevor Giles was ostensibly a centre-half back though not for Meath. Boylan, being a shrewd judge of a footballer's abilitity could identify where he would fit into his team. Davy Dalton, as far as I know does not play corner-back for Summerhill yet almost everybody who saw him play in the O'Byrne cup decided he was natural man-marker. I think we can give O'Brien some credit here.

Finally, what was O'Briens record in management? Achieving promotion to senior with Rathkenny and then steering them through a difficult relegation battle - it's hardly headline grabbing stuff. What were people expecting exactly? As for being too nice, Eamonn Barry used to regularly give players a b*****king from the sideline and they quite understandably resented it. Didn't work out too well for Meath. I don't think McGeeney could have done much with Meath. Kildare are hardly storming up the Division 2 table. McGeeney is inexperienced at this level, so is O'Brien and so is Gilroy. There are risks when you go down this route. Paul Grimely seems to have been the brains behind Kildare's success last year, they'll struggle without him.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 16/03/2010 16:29:17    589842

Ollie
You have good and bad points in your last post. Firstly I agree that the current panel is strong enough and is comparable with many decent panels since I started watching football. Also many good players are able to adapt to whatever position they are played, eg Colm Coyle, Brendan Reilly, Trevor Giles, Barry Callaghan. However many are not and Caoimhin King is surely one of these. Also Martin O'Connell hated playing as a forward so much that he dropped himself of the panel after the semi-final of 1986, even though he was not a bad forward, because Sean Boylan wouldn't play him as a back. However the theme of your of your last paragraph seems to suggest that a manager makes little difference. This couldn't be further from the truth. Think about Offaly when they dropped Babs Keating after a couple of bad results and when they got a manager they could work with they went on to win the AI hurling. Similarly Dave O'Leary took Leeds from the brink of relegation to the top of the premership and to a semifinal in Europe. Declan Kidney took an Irish team that was on the wane to six Nations glory. A new manager, obviously with the right credentials, can do this.

I wouldn't like to see Eamon out just yet but he would want to put a few results together or he won't last much longer.

The real Árd Rí (Meath) - Posts: 990 - 17/03/2010 20:50:43    590790

-------- And the quality of one or two of their Referees is even lower.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3396 - 18/03/2010 11:49:11    591108

To be honest.. I really don't think Meath are as bad as people are making them out to be.. alright the results against Westmeath and Tipperary were terrible because these are two teams that any good side would beat by a cricket score.. but to me the problem is EOB does not know his best 15 and as a result players can't settle because they're being played all over the park..

For a start, our full back line needs to be sorted out quickly.. Niall McKeigue and James Macken need to be dropped, neither have the qualities required for inter-county football.. a temporary replacement for full back has to be Anthony Moyles.. he's a big presence and a good all-rounder so he'll do until we get Kevin Reilly back..

I really think EOB needs to examine his players and their strengths.. playing a different team every match can't be good for any player, no-one can settle on a permanent gameplan and players will lose confidence.. I honestly think Meath have quality players with great potential but the problem is blending as a team.. we need a structure and an effective gameplan, getting the ball out of defence quick and launching the ball into space with the forwards making runs, no team can counter-act that kind of approach if it's applied accurately and efficiently.. I think the team is there, the management is the problem for me..

RoyalClass (Meath) - Posts: 790 - 18/03/2010 12:36:23    591188

Think you over estimate some of the forwards in Meath. Joe is a very natural and instinctive footballer but only plays in spurts and even at club level rarely puts in a commanding 60minutes. You get the feeling that this team is always waiting on Joe to get a flurry of scores to get them going. The Brays are both nice tidy footballers but are very markable at the top level. Farrell and ward struggle to win there own ball which is a major problem. I think queeney will be a good addition for this reason. I feel alot of these are carrying big reputations from club football in Meath and are struggling to back it up at intercounty. It begs the question about the club standard in Meath?
As for midfield Crawford has put in some miles in the meath jersey at this stage but has never consistantly lit the world up with his performances....a good player not a great player as a famous rte pundit once said. It says alot that meath stil rely on him as the 1st choice midfielder and are struggling to find a the right man for the 2nd midfield slot. Brian Meade is a workhorse and at least leaves everything he has on the pitch everytime he goes out but not really a ball winner of intercounty standard. Ward the next option well not everyones cup of tea on here quite obviously so say no more there.
As for the backs I think the half back options are plentiful and on par with the best in intercounty O'Brien should have decided who is 1st 3 in halfback line are at this stage though and stick with them. Also need to to stop trying to fit the ones who miss out in the halfback line in the the half forwards....Dublin have done that for years and i think we have proved its not the way to go. Full back line is tragic and that is a strange setup for Meath who have a record of constantly producing some of the finest players for these positions and now all of a sudden the conveyor belt seems to have stopped completly for the moment.
To wrap it up i don't think this is a good meath panel who haven't had a good manager and seem to play within themselves no doubt though this statement will bite me in the ***

Good luck in the summer hopefully we get a day out in croker with ya's this year

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 18/03/2010 13:17:44    591248

Some very interesting comments there Pigonastick. I agree with some and some are daft but at least you have gotten it off your chest!
I wouldn't agree with the majority of your comments about the forwards, meath play that long ball style of football which allows and in turn waits for Joe, brian,cian or the brays to break a ball and get a score. So i can see where you think meath are waiting for something to come. On that point I think meath rarely have an plan B and it should be reviewed. But in saying that, do the dubs? with berno and alan brogan, your lacking!
As for crawford, you obviously have not seen his performances for the past few years, hes been immense and really should have been up for an all star last year, what did Daragh o"shea do last year to deserve it???? Big disadvantage of cindy is his kicking and distribution can be poor. When I think of Whelo, what has he done compared to crawford, in my opinion, hes been a great servant to dublin GAA but never ever became a prominent midfielder at all ireland level!
I agree with your comments regarding our full back line, its atrocious at the moment, but I have faith that it will come right.
the dubs are doing well at the moment and what I like is a lot of unknowns (even to staunch Dublin fans) are been given the chance and more impressively they have savage hunger and desire to grab their chance. I am not seeing that from the meath newcomers! But as always said in meath, the league is the league!!!The shocking performance from meath in tipp has more than likely cost us promotion, weve laois and kildare at home which would of hopefully gotten us 4 points which should have gained us promotion. So all in all were not in as dire a situation you have noted, there are some serious issues need resolving in the camp before we hopefully get a shot at you's in JUNE 2010

Pa Connors (Meath) - Posts: 10 - 18/03/2010 14:09:44    591359

Pa i can see why you thought some of my comments were daft because if you honestly think Crawford even comes close to O Se or whelo as a midfielder that explains it all ha!

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 18/03/2010 14:34:40    591416

pigonastick - I'd agree with a lot of your observations.

TheFlyingTeacup (Meath) - Posts: 286 - 18/03/2010 16:11:09    591607

And if you think Whelan comes close to O'Se than you may be lacking something upstairs. In all honesty though why do you care so much?

itsgreenandgold (Meath) - Posts: 312 - 18/03/2010 16:31:35    591634

While I agree with what some of what pigonastick has said in his post, it lost all credibility when he said that Joe plays in spurts and then mentions Whelo in the same breath as Ó Sé, the same Whelan who was the king of disappearing in big games when Dublin needed him most to get them going. Also Pa, it's obvious why he's so interested, the Dubs would much rather play Meath in a Leinster Final for example where they are going to get a hell of a game than play someone like Laois and ebat them by 20 points!

updaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 1132 - 18/03/2010 16:52:42    591670

Well i think if you check Pa's post he mentioned those 2 midfielders in comparison to Crawford so i just replied. But i will say there was not alot between O'Se and Whelan and this is proven by the immense respect they have for each other. O'Se obviously had all the success and yes I won't deny that over the years Whelan occasionly went missing but Whelan didn't have the team around him to pick up the baton when he faded out of a game where O'Se did. O'Se has also got alot more all stars than Whelan but again you could argue that they come with all-ireland titles. O'Se and Whelan have been the 2 outstanding midfield player over the last decade for sure and the last of a dying breed. Both were great fielders, ball carriers, point takers, kick passers and both knew when and where to let an opposition player know who was on charge. Whelan will go down as 1 of the best in a blue jersey never to win an All-Ireland.
As for why do i care so much, well I'm a Dub living in Meath but also a GAA fan living in Meath so I take in a few games as a neutral at club and county level as I try to adapt to life in the royal county. But don't worry lads i still keep a closer eye on football in the capital so i will always be a blow in jackeen. I love the passion from Meath fans and how unforgivingly obsessive they are about there football its great to see.

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 18/03/2010 21:08:58    592023

pigonastick- your post makes alot more sense than some of the 'amateurs' posting here. Anyone comparing Crawford with O'Shea must be in cuckooland along with the guy who says that out fulback line needs Moyles. The problem with our fullback line and maybe some of the half backline is we have too many defenders who cannot man-mark just like Moyles!

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 18/03/2010 21:21:58    592046

pigonastick
County: Dublin
Posts: 16

Ah that's fair enough then, it's great to see that :)

itsgreenandgold (Meath) - Posts: 312 - 18/03/2010 21:35:02    592070